If Christ did not rise from the dead...

[TER]

why would the apostles endure torture and death in His Name?

 

[sevin]

because they were religious fanatics?

People have died for all sorts of causes.

 

[dannno]

Proof?

 

[TER]

because they were religious fanatics?

People have died for all sorts of causes.

What would be the reason for it had they not witnessed the Lord overcome death?

 

[TER]

Proof?

What would constitute proof for you for something that occurred 2000 years ago?

 

[sevin]

What would constitute proof for you for something that occurred 2000 years ago?

I think his point is that there is no proof.

What would be the reason for it had they not witnessed the Lord overcome death?

There are thousands of people who didn't witness Christ rising from the did but still died for their faith.

 

[TER]

I think his point is that there is no proof.

And I am asking what kind of proof would be enough for him to believe in something that happened 2000 years ago.

There are thousands of people who didn't witness Christ rising from the did but still died for their faith.

I understand that. My question is why would His disciples do so.

 

[sevin]

I understand that. My question is why would His disciples do so.

The same reason anyone dies for something: devotion.

 

[TER]

The same reason anyone dies for something: devotion.

Your right. And what where they devoted to?

 

[sevin]

Your right. And what where they devoted to?

Their belief in Christ, I guess.

 

[dannno]

And I am asking what kind of proof would be enough for him to believe in something that happened 2000 years ago.

I am agnostic. I don't believe much of anything, though I am willing to take all information into consideration. I generally use the information along with any other information I can connect to find out what the motives of the presenter are and attempt to determine the truth based on that. I have found that method has brought me to the most easily reconcilable views regarding history.

 

[TER]

Their belief in Christ, I guess.

But what about Christ in particular?

 

[sevin]

But what about Christ in particular?

I don't follow.

 

[TER]

You see, it would seem irrational for me (a bear of little brain) to believe His disciples would endured grueling tortures, imprisonments, and terribly painful deaths in order to perpetuate a lie that He rose from the dead.

In fact, my reasoning and rational mind would say that the ONLY reason His disciples would undergo such things is if they truly DID behold Christ risen from the dead.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

why would the apostles endure torture and death in His Name?

This is like asking why a suicide bomber blows himself up in the name of Allah. I'm sure that the apostles and various saints really did believe what they say, but in itself doesn't make it true. (note that I'm not saying that it's true or not-I wasn't there, so I can't make an objective statement either way)

 

[sevin]

You see, it would seem irrational for me (a bear of little brain) to believe His disciples would endured grueling tortures, imprisonments, and terribly painful deaths in order to perpetuate a lie that He rose from the dead.

In fact, my reasoning and rational mind would say that the ONLY reason His disciples would undergo such things is if they truly DID behold Christ risen from the dead.

Use your reasoning a little more. A lot of people die for causes even though they didn't behold something rising from the dead. I think you know that many people have.

This is like asking why a suicide bomber blows himself up in the name of Allah. I'm sure that the apostles and various saints really did believe what they say, but in itself doesn't make it true. (note that I'm not saying that it's true or not-I wasn't there, so I can't make an objective statement either way)

this

 

[TER]

This is like asking why a suicide bomber blows himself up in the name of Allah. I'm sure that the apostles and various saints really did believe what they say, but in itself doesn't make it true. (note that I'm not saying that it's true or not-I wasn't there, so I can't make an objective statement either way)

What is the gain of someone enduring painful tortures and death if they did not believe in what they were enduring painful tortures and death for?

In the case of the suicide bombers, it is to gain entry into Heaven surrounded by 72 virgins.

In the case of the disciples, it is to prove that they beheld the Risen Christ.

 

[constituent]

You see, it would seem irrational for me (a bear of little brain) to believe His disciples would endured grueling tortures, imprisonments, and terribly painful deaths in order to perpetuate a lie that He rose from the dead.

Ever heard of a little place called Iraq? How about Viet Nam?

 

[constituent]

What is the gain of someone enduring painful tortures and death if they did not believe in what they were enduring painful tortures and death for?

What does it matter if they're wrong?

In the case of the suicide bombers, it is to gain entry into Heaven surrounded by 72 virgins.

No, it's usually anger, grief, pain and a sense that there is nothing else to be done.

 

[constituent]

What would constitute proof for you for something that occurred 2000 years ago?

Well, I can't speak for dannno, but whatcha got?