I was smashed in a debate by the most liberal guy i know.

[Anti Federalist]

Fairly interesting stuff.

This one:

Makes the point that I was making in that other thread, Fox.

Every single one of those items are either entirely manufactured abroad, or made from parts manufactured abroad, now, as opposed to being almost wholly manufactured domestically in 1973.

The wholesale import of all these items is masking inflation (or, more honestly, dollar devaluation).

It's also interesting to note when the start date on that chart was.

Now, there is also the quality issue, or, is it really a bargain if it only lasts a third or a quarter of the lifespan of a similar unit made in 1973?

My mother still has hand held kitchen appliances that she used when I was kid, and I'm on the backside of 40.

 

[angelatc]

i cant find it anywhere. but is it true that industrialization rises prices? because everything im looking into says yes.

Of course not. If it did, we wouldn't do it.

 

[angelatc]

does increase in population create more inflation?

Not necessarily. When the population increases, we use more of our resources. But as we use more, we also become more efficient with them. Generally speaking, the more of a commodity we use, the cheaper it becomes.

 

[Tal]

If you have that larger population chasing the same amout of goods you had before, yes, you should see prices inflate. If the amount of goods increases at the same rate or faster than the population grows then you should not expect to see prices increasing- assuming everything else stays the same.

That does not sound correct, lets take the example of some hypothetical society of 100 people, these 100 people use 1000 silver coins as currency, now lets say all of a sudden another 100 people join their community so now they have 200 people using 1000 silver coins as currency, in such a situation every person would have 50% less money to use for goods purchases on average IE prices would fall by roughly 50%, not rise.

I cannot for the life of me figure out how on earth an increasing population using a certain monetary pool would make prices for each individual go up.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

There are the same amount of Production and Manufacturing jobs now as in 1940. The population has over doubled with government 4 times the percentage size of what it was in 1920. Ggovernment NEVER wants deflationary scenarios in a FIAT debt based system. Their cut is always a percentage and the inflation the more in devaluations of government debt and increase of government revenue.

Then the bubbles burst and We The People are stuck with the debt pile... well you've seen what the last 3 years amounted to us.

I showed this guy this graph

and blamed the cost of living going up because of government spending and inflation of monetary.

but he retaliated by saying the cost of living goes up from industrialization which he showed me a graph and it pretty much looked identical lol.

and if this is true, why would wealth make prices rise? doesn't this contradict free market theory, I thought the more wealth you had the lower the cost of living???
because in a free market you would pretty much not be basing wealth off of money but wealth off of actual capitol.

so yeah.... which is it?

 

[Carson]

I wouldn't say you were smashed in a debate.

Let him believe what he wants.

I love that chart. It helped me understand the way the fiat dollar works. Then again I could be sadly mistaken.

I sort of see it like this, mind you went went off of the gold standard totally in 1971.

Once you grasp the way fake money works you may start to see and think things like:

The government has been spending so much money it doesn't have, that it has in effect counterfeited the entire money supply at least ten times over. No matter where your Aunt Martha hides the cookie jar with her money in it, when they spend what they don't have, they reach right in and devalue the life out of it.


Or you may think that if the money is now worth or has half the purchasing power it once did it may take twice as much to buy the same amount of stock.

And sure there have been changes in the thirty businesses represented by the Dow Jones Industrial Average but still I can't help thinking we are paying capital gains taxes on false profits.

P.S. Without an audit of the Federal Reserve we don't even know how much of the influence we have thrust upon us from outside of our country may be being financed by our own dollar. Who can really say who prints what or nowadays you don't even have to print, just transfer some electrons to the right place. It wasn't the little guy that manipulated the bailout.

Has anyone ever heard of any of them file an income tax return?




Quote from WIKI:

The Industrial Revolution was a period from the 18th to the 19th century where major changes in agriculture, manufacturing, mining, transportation, and technology had a profound effect on the socioeconomic and cultural conditions of the times. It began in the United Kingdom, then subsequently spread throughout Europe, North America, and eventually the world.

 

[jon_perez]

and blamed the cost of living going up because of government spending and inflation of monetary.

but he retaliated by saying the cost of living goes up from industrialization which he showed me a graph and it pretty much looked identical lol.

Hmmm don't industrialization and Keynesianism go hand-in-hand

and if this is true, why would wealth make prices rise?

Hmmm wealth to me is when prices go down...

doesn't this contradict free market theory, I thought the more wealth you had the lower the cost of living???

Or rather, the lower the cost of living the more wealth you effectively have...

 

[Carson]

The origin of the Robert C. Sahr's chart in the first post can be found here;

http://oregonstate.edu/cla/polisci/sahr-robert

If you click around. They changed the website and made it hard to link to (PDF's). He has also updated the chart to 2014. This link gets you close.

http://oregonstate.edu/cla/polisci/sahr/sahr

If you get to this page check out the link that says "summary" down at the bottom. It links to a PDF of a bunch of his charts.

http://oregonstate.edu/cla/polisci/price-levels-and-us-economy

 

[Mini-Me]

This also refutes the deflationary spiral that economists say will occur if we were to allow deflation. People see prices dropping, but it does not put them off from buying.

Exactly. People have time preferences, and they will not wait forever. Most may not even wait at all, unless they're expecting an actual acceleration in price drops.

EDIT: Holy crap, I thought there were only 3 pages, not 7. :o
(Herein, I reveal my RPF's viewing preferences! )

 

[Zippyjuan]

This one:

Makes the point that I was making in that other thread, Fox.

Every single one of those items are either entirely manufactured abroad, or made from parts manufactured abroad, now, as opposed to being almost wholly manufactured domestically in 1973.

The wholesale import of all these items is masking inflation (or, more honestly, dollar devaluation).

It's also interesting to note when the start date on that chart was.

Now, there is also the quality issue, or, is it really a bargain if it only lasts a third or a quarter of the lifespan of a similar unit made in 1973?

My mother still has hand held kitchen appliances that she used when I was kid, and I'm on the backside of 40.

Nice to see a chart using my "hours of work" to measure how much things really cost! Thanks for posting it!

 

[Carson]

This one:

Makes the point that I was making in that other thread, Fox.

Every single one of those items are either entirely manufactured abroad, or made from parts manufactured abroad, now, as opposed to being almost wholly manufactured domestically in 1973.

The wholesale import of all these items is masking inflation (or, more honestly, dollar devaluation).

It's also interesting to note when the start date on that chart was.

Now, there is also the quality issue, or, is it really a bargain if it only lasts a third or a quarter of the lifespan of a similar unit made in 1973?

My mother still has hand held kitchen appliances that she used when I was kid, and I'm on the backside of 40.

I think the thing is that every single one of those things is harder to make than just printing up fiat money to pay for them.

I can remember when the government and the banks themselves needed to come to us for money for projects or money to loan. Now they can just fire up the fake money presses and get whatever they want. If they make a mistake, like say lose on a loan, they just fire them back up and pay themselves back.

It also has an added benefit for the government. Say they devalue the money ten times over. When someone goes to sell something like a home they will get ten times more for it. Even though it is ten times more money it still has the same value as before except now the government has cut itself in by charging capital gains taxes. They have cut themselves in on everything.

Welcome to the new world order.

 

[Catatonic]

I showed this guy this graph

and blamed the cost of living going up because of government spending and inflation of monetary.

but he retaliated by saying the cost of living goes up from industrialization which he showed me a graph and it pretty much looked identical lol.

and if this is true, why would wealth make prices rise? doesn't this contradict free market theory, I thought the more wealth you had the lower the cost of living???
because in a free market you would pretty much not be basing wealth off of money but wealth off of actual capitol.

so yeah.... which is it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B1CUJtXPgU

You're welcome bro