I was exercising the 1st amendment today...

[JeNNiF00F00]

I have thought about doing this as well. I have a cop that likes to sit on the corner of my property using the house as a shield to be seen and catch people doing over 25mph at the bottom of a hill as they pass the front of the house.

 

[Mini-Me]

I find it surprising no one here would question this activity on a moral basis.

Has this cop ever done anything, that you know of, that over steps the boundaries he believes he has?

The cop is sitting there and enforcing the laws he is paid to enforce. You, come along and hold up this sign... aggravating the cop. He asks if you really need to do that? and you respond with a question about harassment and imply he is harassing people. Then have the audacity to claim freedom and liberty. Technically you have the right to do this.

I am not knocking you for this (yet). I am asking for what was your motivation? And do you think something else would be more productive as to getting the laws or police conduct changed?

Are we anarchists now?

I can't answer for disorderlyvision, but it's clear that he believes the speed limits in his area are either unjust laws entirely or at least unjustly enforced (i.e. abused solely for the purpose of ensnaring people and extorting money from them; as I understand it, some cops have QUOTAS, which is far different from just "keeping the roads safe"). Speedtrap cops are almost universally disliked, partially due to what they do and partially due to the notion that valuable police resources (which we are forced to pay for) are being wasted on moving violations solely because they're cash cows, when such resources would be better spent either fighting violent crime or being cut from the budget entirely. Of course, if moving violations are such cash cows that they're a net positive for the budget, that only contributes even more to the first reason for resentment. Do you really need to be an anarchist to recognize speedtrap extortion as harrassment or warn fellow motorists that they could be victimized just up the road? If the laws are unjust or enforced unfairly, it's not necessary to have anything personal against the "punchclock villain" enforcing them to be justified in helping people out. Sure, there are more productive things to do, but that's no reason to single out what he did as a waste of time; I'm sure there are more productive things to do than most of what anyone does in their free time.

 

[BillyDkid]

The thing is, in this country anymore, the law is whatever a cop and a judge decide it is. There are enough laws without specific meanings that they can apply to whatever a cop or a judge decides they apply to. Public nuisance, disorderly conduct, failure to obey a lawful directive - these are all laws intended to serve as catchalls for whatever behavior a cop decides he doesn't like. I think the idea that the Bill of Rights is going to protect your rights in any meaningful way is wishful thinking anymore. The government can and will do whatever it wants. It just so happens that most of what most of us do doesn't interfere with with what the government wants. Once it does, no law is going to protect you or your property.

 

[disorderlyvision]

I find it surprising no one here would question this activity on a moral basis.

Has this cop ever done anything, that you know of, that over steps the boundaries he believes he has?

The cop is sitting there and enforcing the laws he is paid to enforce. You, come along and hold up this sign... aggravating the cop. He asks if you really need to do that? and you respond with a question about harassment and imply he is harassing people. Then have the audacity to claim freedom and liberty. Technically you have the right to do this.

I am not knocking you for this (yet). I am asking for what was your motivation? And do you think something else would be more productive as to getting the laws or police conduct changed?

Are we anarchists now?

question my activities on a moral basis? WTF?!? Why not question the cops on a moral basis? If the government is the mafia, then the cops are their strong arm, shaking down the public, making them pay into their coffers so they can increase their harrasment efforts in the future.

"The cop is sitting there and enforcing the laws he is paid to enforce." Just because there is a law doesn't make it right. There is a law that says the federal reserve is legit, I guess everyone on this forum should pack up and go home, there is a law after all guys.

I aggravated the cop? he initiated contact with me. I was doing nothing illegal. I was peacefully holding a sign, doing a public service. seems like if anyone was doing the aggravating it was him. I am sure I saved a couple of people from paying a hefty fine. They got to save the $130 dollars maybe they got to pay their light bill because of that, or maybe they got to take their kids to the zoo, or maybe they just saved the money for a rainy day. Much better than that same $130 going into the police coffers to be used for house raids, swat teams, etc.

"Then have the audacity to claim freedom and liberty." STFU & GTFO you are on the wrong board. I am sure they have some kind of cop loving, pro-public harrasment forum somewhere, perhaps you would feel more at home there.

"I am not knocking you for this (yet)" ohh no, you mean that in the future there is the possibility that you could still knock me, just keepin it in your back pocket for a rainy day?

My motivation was... I dislike cops. I dislike cops that hide. I dislike cops that hide so they can extort money from the public for trivial bullshit like doing 40 in a 30 down a hill. gee officer I didnt ride my brakes the whole way down the hill. The cops in my surrounding area do this shit all the time. it is annoying. They hide, but they can't hide when someone is holding a sign warning people that there is a cop hiding directly ahead. If they were out there getting rapists and pedophiles. I wouldnt be holding a sign. As long as they are HARRASING the public (laws be damned) I will hold a sign when I see it happen whether you like it or not, whether you condone it or not, and whether you will future knock me or not.

good day sir

 

[disorderlyvision]

I can't answer for disorderlyvision, but it's clear that he believes the speed limits in his area are either unjust laws entirely or at least unjustly enforced (i.e. abused solely for the purpose of ensnaring people and extorting money from them; as I understand it, some cops have QUOTAS, which is far different from just "keeping the roads safe"). Speedtrap cops are almost universally disliked, partially due to what they do and partially due to the notion that valuable police resources (which we are forced to pay for) are being wasted on moving violations solely because they're cash cows, when such resources would be better spent either fighting violent crime or being cut from the budget entirely. Of course, if moving violations are such cash cows that they're a net positive for the budget, that only contributes even more to the first reason for resentment. Do you really need to be an anarchist to recognize speedtrap extortion as harrassment or warn fellow motorists that they could be victimized just up the road? If the laws are unjust or enforced unfairly, it's not necessary to have anything personal against the "punchclock villain" enforcing them to be justified in helping people out. Sure, there are more productive things to do, but that's no reason to single out what he did as a waste of time; I'm sure there are more productive things to do than most of what anyone does in their free time.

+1

 

[moostraks]

Lol!!!

Glad to see you didn't get too harassed. In Georgia they would be real jerks for flashing lights to warn oncoming traffic and it always seemed fair game to me especially since they hide like thieves to catch people. If they want to sit out in broad daylight that is one thing, but hiding makes it fairly clear the intention is not to raise awareness to speeding but merely to raise cash....

 

[Danke]

Glad to see you didn't get too harassed. In Georgia they would be real jerks for flashing lights to warn oncoming traffic and it always seemed fair game to me especially since they hide like thieves to catch people. If they want to sit out in broad daylight that is one thing, but hiding makes it fairly clear the intention is not to raise awareness to speeding but merely to raise cash....

When I was stationed in Korea, I liked the custom of nearly everyone flashing their lights to warn of cops ahead. But I kept speeding anyway and just waived at the cops as I drove by.

 

[ceakins]

I find it surprising no one here would question this activity on a moral basis.

Has this cop ever done anything, that you know of, that over steps the boundaries he believes he has?

The cop is sitting there and enforcing the laws he is paid to enforce. You, come along and hold up this sign... aggravating the cop. He asks if you really need to do that? and you respond with a question about harassment and imply he is harassing people. Then have the audacity to claim freedom and liberty. Technically you have the right to do this.

I am not knocking you for this (yet). I am asking for what was your motivation? And do you think something else would be more productive as to getting the laws or police conduct changed?

Are we anarchists now?

It's interesting to note that in every state that has brought speed camera's up for a vote, have been voted out. There are many drivers that would disagree with you. He's doing a public service. You ever here of jury nullification? Too bad you don't get a jury trial for a speeding ticket.

 

[hotbrownsauce]

question my activities on a moral basis? WTF?!? Why not question the cops on a moral basis? If the government is the mafia, then the cops are their strong arm, shaking down the public, making them pay into their coffers so they can increase their harrasment efforts in the future.

"The cop is sitting there and enforcing the laws he is paid to enforce." Just because there is a law doesn't make it right. There is a law that says the federal reserve is legit, I guess everyone on this forum should pack up and go home, there is a law after all guys.

I aggravated the cop? he initiated contact with me. I was doing nothing illegal. I was peacefully holding a sign, doing a public service. seems like if anyone was doing the aggravating it was him. I am sure I saved a couple of people from paying a hefty fine. They got to save the $130 dollars maybe they got to pay their light bill because of that, or maybe they got to take their kids to the zoo, or maybe they just saved the money for a rainy day. Much better than that same $130 going into the police coffers to be used for house raids, swat teams, etc.

"Then have the audacity to claim freedom and liberty." STFU & GTFO you are on the wrong board. I am sure they have some kind of cop loving, pro-public harrasment forum somewhere, perhaps you would feel more at home there.

"I am not knocking you for this (yet)" ohh no, you mean that in the future there is the possibility that you could still knock me, just keepin it in your back pocket for a rainy day?

My motivation was... I dislike cops. I dislike cops that hide. I dislike cops that hide so they can extort money from the public for trivial bullshit like doing 40 in a 30 down a hill. gee officer I didnt ride my brakes the whole way down the hill. The cops in my surrounding area do this shit all the time. it is annoying. They hide, but they can't hide when someone is holding a sign warning people that there is a cop hiding directly ahead. If they were out there getting rapists and pedophiles. I wouldnt be holding a sign. As long as they are HARRASING the public (laws be damned) I will hold a sign when I see it happen whether you like it or not, whether you condone it or not, and whether you will future knock me or not.

good day sir

I'm sorry disorderly vision. I didn't know you would take it so personally.

From what I read above I can gather the following.
You don't like big fines.
You don't like the money from fines going to police raids and swat teams. Where the police will harass people in the future.

I agree with you 100%.

I am curious what else you are doing to help change the laws? Other than help prevent people from the hassle.
What police actions that are accepted as legal do you feel should not be?
What police actions happen that are not accepted as legal and still done anyway that you are disgusted with?

My mode of thinking is that I might hold a sign as you do. But I know me holding a sign isn't going to change what police do when I'm not there. I carry a tape recorder and digital camera and turn both on ANYTIME I'm stopped (and use my cellphone sometimes so I'll have 2 backups). You and I both feel a higher chance of less safety when police are present.

I hope even if you hold the sign again in the future that you're working twice as hard to help fix the problem at its source. As I feel this is more effective. Obviously you wont be able to prevent big fines and harassment right away but you'll be helping a lot more people in the long run than you could by holding a sign.

That's all I've got to say on the topic. I send my apologies disorderlyvision.

 

[Krugerrand]

I've always thought that if I hit the lotter big (unlikely, since I don't play) I'd devote resources to citing police officers that break traffic laws. I would massively fund campaign resources against judges who tolerate policemen breaking traffic laws.

As I walk through town to work, about every other month I see some policeman parking illegally or simply not feeding the meter. His personal car is, of course, decked out with FOP labels and whatnot. I then think ... what other laws does this person feel "don't apply" to him?

 

[disorderlyvision]

I'm sorry disorderly vision. I didn't know you would take it so personally..

I took it personally, because it was directed at me personally, and seemed to have a negative connotation. It seemed like a personal attack to me, but maybe I misread it, with written words sometimes context, emotion, etc. is lost in translation.

Apology accepted

(1)I am curious what else you are doing to help change the laws? Other than help prevent people from the hassle.
(2)What police actions that are accepted as legal do you feel should not be?
(3)What police actions happen that are not accepted as legal and still done anyway that you are disgusted with?

1. what is wrong with helping people avoid the hassle?
I just sent Sheriff Mack's books to two county sheriffs and the police chief.
In the past, not much in regards to law enforcement, as I typically tried to avoid any contact with them whatsoever.

2. Most of them, Their loose interpretation of probable cause, DUI checkpoints, driver's liscence spot checks, hidden speed traps, entrapm..I mean stings, arresting and imprisoning people for victimless crimes..........

3. I am disgusted with anything they do that is illegal, they are not (well, should not be) above the law. Even small crap pisses me off. for instance, I live in a tourist town, and the downtown touristy business owners bitched long enough the city council passed an ordinance banning bikes and skateboards etc. on the sidewalk. well in the summer we have bicycle cops patroling all over the place, guess what...they ride on the sidewalks

My mode of thinking is that I might hold a sign as you do. But I know me holding a sign isn't going to change what police do when I'm not there. I carry a tape recorder and digital camera and turn both on ANYTIME I'm stopped (and use my cellphone sometimes so I'll have 2 backups). You and I both feel a higher chance of less safety when police are present.

It changes what they do while I am there...Immediate results

I have been thinking about getting a digital camera. I might start saving back some money to get one.

I hope even if you hold the sign again in the future that you're working twice as hard to help fix the problem at its source. As I feel this is more effective. Obviously you wont be able to prevent big fines and harassment right away but you'll be helping a lot more people in the long run than you could by holding a sign..

I hope that in the future, while your working twice as hard, you will take a break and hold a sign

 

[hotbrownsauce]

I hope even if you hold the sign again in the future that you're working twice as hard to help fix the problem at its source. As I feel this is more effective. Obviously you wont be able to prevent big fines and harassment right away but you'll be helping a lot more people in the long run than you could by holding a sign..

I hope that in the future, while your working twice as hard, you will take a break and hold a sign

LOL I like that.

 

[Dr.3D]

I've always thought they could save a lot of money by having a dummy (not a living one) sitting in a cop car by the side of the road. People would slow down and everything would work as normal.

They could also have solar powered radar units mounted on poles where they emit a radar signal that makes radar detectors go off. This would be very cheap and could be programmed so it would turn on at different times and on different days.

Wouldn't need to pay so many cops that way.

 

[SimpleName]

I've wondered whether such cop activity, hiding out to catch speeders, could be considered "entrapment." I'm not sure where entrapment is recognized by the Constitution, but I've always read and heard about how it is definitely not legal. So how legal is it exactly to do it in the first place?

Nonetheless, I hate the idea of it in the first place. The cop himself has nothing to do with the orders he is given, so he may not personally be to blame, but I'm sure he agrees with the policy. Anyway, the TS had very good intentions. I just worry about the crazy speeders who weren't served what they were due. We could get into the whole "If he doesn't hurt anybody, what is he doing wrong in the first place?" and the "He owns the roads too." discussions, but lets...just...not.

 

[andrewh817]

I find it surprising no one here would question this activity on a moral basis.

Has this cop ever done anything, that you know of, that over steps the boundaries he believes he has?

The cop is sitting there and enforcing the laws he is paid to enforce. You, come along and hold up this sign... aggravating the cop. He asks if you really need to do that? and you respond with a question about harassment and imply he is harassing people. Then have the audacity to claim freedom and liberty. Technically you have the right to do this.

I am not knocking you for this (yet). I am asking for what was your motivation? And do you think something else would be more productive as to getting the laws or police conduct changed?

Are we anarchists now?

.........Since when did the lawmakers in our government listen to the people! They kiss ass until they get elected and then do whatever they want. As for motivation, he was speaking truth to "authority" and possibly saving people from getting tickets. The less money they extort the better.

 

[cjhowe]

I'm sorry disorderly vision. I didn't know you would take it so personally.

From what I read above I can gather the following.
You don't like big fines.
You don't like the money from fines going to police raids and swat teams. Where the police will harass people in the future.

I agree with you 100%.

I am curious what else you are doing to help change the laws? Other than help prevent people from the hassle.
What police actions that are accepted as legal do you feel should not be?
What police actions happen that are not accepted as legal and still done anyway that you are disgusted with?

My mode of thinking is that I might hold a sign as you do. But I know me holding a sign isn't going to change what police do when I'm not there. I carry a tape recorder and digital camera and turn both on ANYTIME I'm stopped (and use my cellphone sometimes so I'll have 2 backups). You and I both feel a higher chance of less safety when police are present.

I hope even if you hold the sign again in the future that you're working twice as hard to help fix the problem at its source. As I feel this is more effective. Obviously you wont be able to prevent big fines and harassment right away but you'll be helping a lot more people in the long run than you could by holding a sign.

That's all I've got to say on the topic. I send my apologies disorderlyvision.

One could easily argue that this is an effective means of political action. Gathering 50 people to hear a speaker and gather for two hours is 100 man hours. If those 100 man hours were instead used as disordlyvision did, it's likely his town would stop enforcing traffic laws in a manner that does not improve public safety (speed traps do not improve public safetly) as they would no longer have a profit motivation to do so.

 

[Mrs.Joe]

We have a police officer that rides around town typing on his on board laptop and texting while driving. Would love to be able to ticket him for that, especially when they see people in our little corner of the world going 50 in a 25 while children are outside playing and dont do a thing about it.

 

[Volitzer]

Tyranny always comes to your house or car in uniform.

Think what cops actually did before the invention of the automobile.

 

[Volitzer]

NYS radio stations are cool in thsi regard for warning listeners where the speed-trps are.

Gets a lot of the seniors citizens pissed but if they wouldn't drive so slow people would have to speed in the first place. That and these towns purposely keep the speed limits down 10 mph on purpose.

 

[disorderlyvision]

One could easily argue that this is an effective means of political action. Gathering 50 people to hear a speaker and gather for two hours is 100 man hours. If those 100 man hours were instead used as disordlyvision did, it's likely his town would stop enforcing traffic laws in a manner that does not improve public safety (speed traps do not improve public safetly) as they would no longer have a profit motivation to do so.

Thats a good point