I want the truth.

[rjo43084]

Given that the accusations he wrote them have been debunked and that it's highly unlikely he knew about them (tiny circulation, no Internet, Paul temporarily out of politics, etc.), this controversy "only" calls into question if he's too trusting. He does strike me that way, which is definitely not good for a president... then again, look at the company the other candidates keep (especially Giuliani). So, it's not enough for me to abandon the good doctor, but it's enough to temper my support for him on the grounds that his judgment leaves something to be desired.

Unfortunately, I think this will kill his presidential candidacy, as a Republican or otherwise.

According to this post you act like all candidates that keep strange bedfellows are just naive and too trustworthy. These people are not dumb, and neither is Ron Paul. I cannot simply think he was just an innocent, naive man that was duped and made the wrong friends. To do so would insult his intelligence completely. Paul is much smarter than that, smarter than almost every other candidate, republican or democrat. How could he be so incredibly stupid in just ONE instance? It doesn't add up.

 

[partypooper]

He's addressed these many times over the years. It's on his wikipedia site. Because you didn't know about it doesn't make it his fault. The new york times debunked it in the middle of last year.

how many times he addressed the issue is irrelevant. if the public, much of which never heard him addressing it, wants to know more, he is supposed to explain it again.

the reason why he doesn't want to address it is not because he addressed it many times before, but because he doesn't feel like it. he addressed paper money million of times yet he is never tired of repeating himself.

simply put, he disregards completely and selfishly whatever questions the public has and keeps talking about what he wants to talk about, regardless of whether the public understands and cares about it. i am all for bringing up fundamental issues and speaking truth to power. i would love to hear him not only address the issue of who wrote the letters but also specifics of the letters and why he agrees and disagrees with specific claims.

but, increasingly, dr paul is not doing that but rather recklessly indulging in his pet concerns at the cost for individuals generously supporting him, many of which are quite poor or otherwise at risk.

 

[rjo43084]

Good. We've given you explainations. And you still refuse to actually DO ANYTHIGN YOURSELF! Like research the matter, actually learn.

You didn't come here for the truth. You are not a ron paul supporter. You hate freedom and liberty. Please go away. I hope you don't live in the US. You deserve the worst fate imaginable.

This almost sounds like, you're a traitor and should be sent to Guantanamo. Don't statements like these contradict freedom and liberty. If the other poster doesn't believe Ron at the current time and wants more answers, like myself, then he should be allowed to have that belief without being hounded and burned at the stake.

 

[partypooper]

I cannot simply think he was just an innocent, naive man that was duped and made the wrong friends. To do so would insult his intelligence completely. Paul is much smarter than that, smarter than almost every other candidate, republican or democrat. How could he be so incredibly stupid in just ONE instance? It doesn't add up.

in fact, it does add up. the correlation between technical intelligence and ability to navigate social world is not very high. there even exists a condition, called asperger syndrome, that describes people of normal intelligence whose social intelligence is very impaired.

 

[rockwell]

Care to explain this?

Like the OP, I've given money, time and effort to this campaign. I just want to know who wrote those things and why. I don't for a second believe it was Dr. Paul, but he is letting that person crush the hopes of many, many people. I've been really sad about this all day.

Whoever did the writing MUST come forward NOW and admit it!

I see a lot of people writing about "these things" without specifics. As if the smear piece and each cherry picked sentence was a single document, a charter of sorts that was the foundation of Ron Paul's platform. That certainly isn't the case and a lot of what I did read in there was 100% fact, nothing wrong with citing facts, is there?

Will someone please select two or three specific excerpts that they find so troubling so we can at least try and analyze them objectively?

That would probably go a long way to dispelling the angst I'm seeing here and it would help to have a list of what is or isn't something Ron Paul should or should not address or repudiate, nes pas?

 

[rjo43084]

in fact, it does add up. the correlation between technical intelligence and ability to navigate social world is not very high. there even exists a condition, called asperger syndrome, that describes people of normal intelligence whose social intelligence is very impaired.

Well if you're saying that Ron Paul has Asperger's Syndrome then that completely screws the campaign. I mean yeah, people with disabilities should be given a fair shot, but if a man has an autistic condition, he is probably not capable of running the country. The presidency is all about social interaction, and sound decision making on peoples' character.

Not that any other president ever made good decisions about the character of everyone they had around them, but a lot of those people had ulterior motives. Ron Paul doesn't have those same motives, although his failure to respond adequately to this issue makes me truly wonder whether there is a different agenda that he is keeping under wraps. It seems impossible, given his speeches and voting record, but I will never, ever give a politician the benefit of the doubt.

And in my mind, your views are expressed in the company that you keep. Just look at Obama. Every one is talking about him changing the country, but look at his foreign policy advisor, Brezinski. He was considered a "hawk among doves" in the democratic party during the Carter admin., was a key player in funding the Mujahadeen, and wrote The Grand Chessboard, published in 1997, which essentially lays out the invading of Iraq and Afghanistan to secure oil interests and maintain America's superpower status. And people think change will come from Obama....lol.

Getting back to Ron Paul though, I just don't like the company HE kept at his newsletter. And to this day he's protected the people who wrote this stuff, and not named names. To this day, no one has found a subsequent issue of the newsletter where he apologized for all of those statements and set things straight. If you don't retract the statements, it implies that you still stand by them. I am almost positive he's not racist, but I lost a heck of a lot of respect for him with the way he's handled this in the past and currently.

 

[partypooper]

Well if you're saying that Ron Paul has Asperger's Syndrome then that completely screws the campaign. I mean yeah, people with disabilities should be given a fair shot, but if a man has an autistic condition, he is probably not capable of running the country. The presidency is all about social interaction, and sound decision making on peoples' character.

if dr paul's social skills were at least average he would have been a front-runner now. he has the best philosophy, the unheard of match between record and philosophy and, newsletters notwithstanding, a near flawless biography. so i think it is pretty clear that he is lacking in that department.

i am not saying he has the condition, but yes, i am increasingly concerned about his ability to judge and interact with people as well as issue orders. the way his campaign has been ran, with him blissfully "out of the loop" is a case in point.

 

[Quick]

Let's just make up more bullshit to further complicate the issues..

Ron Paul is now being diagnosed with asperger syndrome by someone named "partypooper" -- looks like he has joined the ranks with rjo43084, luckystars, yuiop, and the rest of the people who are here simply to keep this issue alive and claim Paul is guilty.

All the anti-Muslim hate speech at Littlegreenfootballs got you bored?

 

[partypooper]

Let's just make up more bullshit to further complicate the issues..

Ron Paul is now being diagnosed with asperger syndrome by someone named "partypooper" -- looks like he has joined the ranks with rjo43084, luckystars, yuiop, and the rest of the people who are here simply to keep this issue alive and claim Paul is guilty.

for everything you know, i might be the world's leading expert on asperger. and i didn't diagnoze him with the disorder (not to mention that i am professionally very much opposed to pathologizing and overdiagnosing people who lead unconventional lives), i merely pointed out the increasingly obvious deficiencies that dr paul has in social domain (disconnected speech, difficulty understanding questions, inability to issue orders etc...).

sure, you can label all critics muslim hating whatevers but the fact of the matter is that, as people have more time to observe dr paul's actual behavior in the political arena (as opposed to reading his writings), their allegiance weakens and he becomes just one more of the "lesser evils" as opposed to being the perfect candidate, meriting the sort of sacrifice that many people here endured.

 

[luckystars]

I am sure he knew what they were writing, and approved of the message. It is easy to back away from it saying others used your name, but it won't fly. You get a bounce from other racists, but when you try to run for office you can say "I didn't know."

Ron Paul is finished, but the platform is not. Time to find another candidate to pass the torch to. Best option, return the money that is left, drop out and make a great speech. Or stay in and drag the message into the ground and bury if forever.

If Ron Paul really cares about America, he will do this.

 

[Jeremiah]

I think that says a lot about ........

T

PS: They were. (Reprehensible)

In your opinion Mr. Tuff Fish. But that was the whole point I was making which you clearly fail to grasp. It is merely a matter of opinion and perspective which is a free speech issue and covered by the First Amendment. If the facts stipulated had been wrong then it would be a smear, just like The New Republic article which twisted the facts to convey a certain impression contrary to the truth. Dr. Paul understands this and acts accordingly. You do not because you have been conditioned with a collectivist ideology. You cannot tell the difference between a fact and an opinion.

Ron Paul's response then and now has not risen to this level.

T

You are mistaken Mr. Tuff Fish because you have not taken the trouble to verify your accusations. I think that says a lot about who you are. Dr. Paul has taken moral responsibility for the articles and has dismissed the person who wrote them.

You do not belong on this forum Mr. Tuff Fish because you are not a Ron Paul supporter and this is a Ron Paul Forum. This is called freedom of association, another liberty that has been undermined by the collective. It does not mean that you can force your way onto this forum because you have a "right" to do so. It means that we can exclude you from this forum because we do not like your insinuations or false accusations and you add nothing of worth to our discussion.

 

[Quick]

I am sure he knew what they were writing, and approved of the message. It is easy to back away from it saying others used your name, but it won't fly. You get a bounce from other racists, but when you try to run for office you can say "I didn't know."

Ron Paul is finished, but the platform is not. Time to find another candidate to pass the torch to. Best option, return the money that is left, drop out and make a great speech. Or stay in and drag the message into the ground and bury if forever.

If Ron Paul really cares about America, he will do this.

Go hold your breath.

 

[FunkBuddha]

My .02 cents ( which is worth less today than yesterday)

I see a lot of people writing about "these things" without specifics. As if the smear piece and each cherry picked sentence was a single document, a charter of sorts that was the foundation of Ron Paul's platform. That certainly isn't the case and a lot of what I did read in there was 100% fact, nothing wrong with citing facts, is there?

Will someone please select two or three specific excerpts that they find so troubling so we can at least try and analyze them objectively?

That would probably go a long way to dispelling the angst I'm seeing here and it would help to have a list of what is or isn't something Ron Paul should or should not address or repudiate, nes pas?

I'm still a Ron Paul supporter and I agree that a lot of this stuff is factual or taken out of context. I guess it's the vitriol with which this stuff was written that bothers me. I don't believe for a minute that he didn't know what was in those letters though.

I understand now why it was written. I now know how Dr. Paul was able to outraise his competitors for Congress from donors across the country. I feel like the authors were pandering to the fears of the end of the world/survivor (of which I could be considered a member) types in order to use them to raise money.

Maybe I'm wrong, this is just my analysis. I have too much of an emotional investment in this now to give up. I understand that this was never really about Ron Paul winning the election. New Hampshire proved that winning will be impossible against a corrupt voting system.

This is about exposing the corrupt politicians, the complicit media, and the collusion of big corporations and government to as many Americans as we can. This is about awakening the Remnant to the ideas of Liberty.

My biggest concern is the collapse. It's like musical chairs with many ideologies circling one chair. When the music stops, I hope the Libertarian/Constitutional ideology gets the chair, even if it has to kick the other ideologies asses to get there. If it doesn't, we WILL have another Hitler. I understand that Libertarianism opposes the use aggressive force, and I agree... But if the music stops, it will be self-preservation.

 

[huchahucha]

I understand now why it was written. I now know how Dr. Paul was able to outraise his competitors for Congress from donors across the country. I feel like the authors were pandering to the fears of the end of the world/survivor (of which I could be considered a member) types in order to use them to raise money.

Don't get down about this. While the authors may be pandering, I don't think Ron Paul is insincere when listening to these people's concerns. When everyone else in the two party system says "I'm not going to talk to those fuckin' looney tunes", Ron Paul actually goes on the controversial talk shows and interviews for the controversial magazines. He may not believe all or any of what is being presented by these people, but he still listens.

 

[Jeremiah]

Reality check

I am sure he knew what they were writing, and approved of the message. It is easy to back away from it saying others used your name, but it won't fly. You get a bounce from other racists, but when you try to run for office you can say "I didn't know."

Ron Paul is finished, but the platform is not. Time to find another candidate to pass the torch to. Best option, return the money that is left, drop out and make a great speech. Or stay in and drag the message into the ground and bury if forever.

If Ron Paul really cares about America, he will do this.

Well we should thank our lucky stars I guess that we have you around to rally us at this time. By the way, do you remember these words YOU wrote some time ago:

"Do you know how radical this message is, you get killed for this type of talk. Are you people naive or what? He is advocating revolution for REAL. This is not a game, if you are not in it to win it, get out.

He knows very well what this means. We signed his death sentence by supporting him in mass. He was able to be a rural kook from Texas all these years, but now its changed.

He told you "This is a revolution, am lucky to be part of it." The media will throw everything they have at him including the kitchen sink. The cat is out of the bag, Pandora's Box has been opened, there is no turning back. We tried to open it 30 years ago, and they slammed it shut at Kent State. Its truth time."

Yes, that was YOU. What happened? Were you just establishing your cred so that you could bring the doctor down when the opportune moment arrived?

You must know, being a political revolutionary from way back when, that Dr. Martin Luther King had a less than impeccable personal reputation, but that did not stop him AND his message from changing America. You also must know that Ghandi was known to sleep with young women to test his self discipline at a time when that was considered to be infra dig but it did not stop him and his movement from throwing the British out of India. These are two of Dr. Paul's heroes, not because of their personal lives but because they were willing to put their lives on the line for what they believed in, just like Dr. Ron Paul.

Now, Dr. Paul, who does have an impeccable personal reputation, has been accused of allowing a newsletter to go out in his name with articles that addressed, factually, specific social concerns of the day from a libertarian point of view, using admittedly inflammatory language, but certainly no more inflammatory or personally offensive than much of what I read every day on this forum. Because of this you now feel offended as if you have been betrayed, even though, in your own words, you must have expected these attacks by the media?

Either you are not the seasoned political revolutionary that you present yourself as being, or indeed you are and have joined this movement with the specific objective of causing dissension and proposing that we all start again with a new leader (and take all the money with us of course. Do you want to be the bag holder Ms. Judas?). Perhaps you are in league with The New Republic and have burrowed in here as a mole to await this very moment when this scurrilous article is published, start this thread and begin to undermine the good doctor's credibilty. You also have allies right here who are assisting you in your endeavours.

Nice try old girl, but no cigar.

 

[rockwell]

Well we should thank our lucky stars I guess that we have you around to rally us at this time. By the way, do you remember these words YOU wrote some time ago:

"Do you know how radical this message is, you get killed for this type of talk. Are you people naive or what? He is advocating revolution for REAL. This is not a game, if you are not in it to win it, get out.

He knows very well what this means. We signed his death sentence by supporting him in mass. He was able to be a rural kook from Texas all these years, but now its changed.

He told you "This is a revolution, am lucky to be part of it." The media will throw everything they have at him including the kitchen sink. The cat is out of the bag, Pandora's Box has been opened, there is no turning back. We tried to open it 30 years ago, and they slammed it shut at Kent State. Its truth time."

Yes, that was YOU. What happened? Were you just establishing your cred so that you could bring the doctor down when the opportune moment arrived?

You must know, being a political revolutionary from way back when, that Dr. Martin Luther King had a less than impeccable personal reputation, but that did not stop him AND his message from changing America. You also must know that Ghandi was known to sleep with young women to test his self discipline at a time when that was considered to be infra dig but it did not stop him and his movement from throwing the British out of India. These are two of Dr. Paul's heroes, not because of their personal lives but because they were willing to put their lives on the line for what they believed in, just like Dr. Ron Paul.

Now, Dr. Paul, who does have an impeccable personal reputation, has been accused of allowing a newsletter to go out in his name with articles that addressed, factually, specific social concerns of the day from a libertarian point of view, using admittedly inflammatory language, but certainly no more inflammatory or personally offensive than much of what I read every day on this forum. Because of this you now feel offended as if you have been betrayed, even though, in your own words, you must have expected these attacks by the media?

Either you are not the seasoned political revolutionary that you present yourself as being, or indeed you are and have joined this movement with the specific objective of causing dissension and proposing that we all start again with a new leader (and take all the money with us of course. Do you want to be the bag holder Ms. Judas?). Perhaps you are in league with The New Republic and have burrowed in here as a mole to await this very moment when this scurrilous article is published, start this thread and begin to undermine the good doctor's credibilty. You also have allies right here who are assisting you in your endeavours.

Nice try old girl, but no cigar.

 

[partypooper]

You also must know that Ghandi was known to sleep with young women to test his self discipline

i didn't know this but it sure shows there are suckers in this world.

 

[rockwell]

I am sure he knew what they were writing, and approved of the message. It is easy to back away from it saying others used your name, but it won't fly. You get a bounce from other racists, but when you try to run for office you can say "I didn't know."

Ron Paul is finished, but the platform is not. Time to find another candidate to pass the torch to. Best option, return the money that is left, drop out and make a great speech. Or stay in and drag the message into the ground and bury if forever.

If Ron Paul really cares about America, he will do this.

I went and read you post history and aside from saying you were leaving about a half a dozen times- glad you're still here of course- I found this post to be very good.

"I think it is truly remarkable and powerful how Ron Paul can get so many people of different political histories to align for the common defense of what it means to be patriotic and defend the liberty of the people of the Republic of the United States of America."

You should stick with you first instinct. Different doesn't just mean age and color, it means opinion and values as well. And he has brought us together, don't jump ship over this because all the other things you have posted concerns about aren't going to be fixed by any of these other snake oil salesmen.

 

[eloquensanity]

The racists are the ones spreading this garbage. The same ones who are cheerleading the killing of Arabs and the invasion of other countries.
How many of the children and babies that have been killed or maimed were terrorists?

I have always found that people who make accusations are actually projecting their own views on some one else.
They try to rationalize their own racism by scaring people into believing we have to kill all these people or they will come and kill us and take away our way of life.

Anyone remember WW11?

 

[Recovering Socialist]

Its Simple, either you believe the Dr. Or you don't.

Does Ron Paul have a history of lying? No
Did he say he wrote it? No
Where do many racists hide out? Republican Party.
And why do they do that? The democratic party is extremely diverse, and there is alot of racism "wink wink" going on in the republican party.
There is a lot of closet racism in the republican party, I think when it tries to write policy, I will be worried.
Our Iraq war is perhaps the biggest racism problem in the world, that its ok to kill people predominately of a difference racial/ethic back ground for their oil.