I think I have a dumb question

[riner69er]

When I hear the answer I am going to kick myself, but:

I have heard several (hundred) times that if we did away with the income tax, the amount of money that the gov't takes in would be equal to that of 10 years ago. So the question is - Where does all this money come from if not from the income tax?? Is it from other taxes? Or some other source other than taxes??

 

[ConstitutionGal]

tarrifs, sales taxes on things like gasoline, certain corporate taxes and a few others that I'm sure I'm forgetting.

 

[hillertexas]

bump

gas tax, tobacco tax, tolls, property taxes, speeding tickets

 

[PauliticsPolitics]

when anyone talks about getting rid of the income tax, they are refering to the personal income tax. The personal federal income tax is questionably illegal, but this only applies to people. Most of the government income comes from taxes on corporations, which is surely legal and has been a main source of revenue in america for a loooong time. Taxing a dude who makes $25k a year doesn't really provide that much money, although he certainly misses that $7k, the federal government doesn't really need it. So, in short, alot of the goverment's money comes from taxing corporations, not working folks.

 

[PauliticsPolitics]

bump

gas tax, tobacco tax, tolls, property taxes, speeding tickets

most of these taxes you mention are state and local taxes, not federal taxes. The FBI doesn't give out speeding tickets. The Fed doesn't get anything from the Illinois toll roads.

 

[ronpaulitician]

So, in short, alot of the goverment's money comes from taxing corporations, not working folks.

Corporations don't pay taxes. Not really.

 

[AlbemarleNC0003]

China.

 

[kevinblack]

Here is the info you are looking for, this should be a MUST read for all Ron Paul supporters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget,_2007

$1,163 billion - Individual income tax
$869.6 billion - Social Security and other payroll taxes
$370.2 billion - Corporate income tax
$65.1 billion - Excise taxes
$26.0 billion - Customs duties
$26.0 billion - Estate and gift taxes
$47.2 billion - Other

Here is another fact that you need to be able to remember and present to anybody you discuss Ron Paul with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Budget
United States federal budget, 2008 - $2.90 trillion (submitted 2007 by President Bush)
United States federal budget, 2000 - $1.8 trillion (submitted 1999 by President Clinton)
_______________________________________________________________________
The difference for just 8 freaking years: 1.1Trillion dollars = 2008 Individual Income tax expected.

Our federal budget has gone up by THE ENTIRE INCOME TAX AMOUNT in just 8 years. Take into account that the 2000 budget was bloated after 8 years of Democratic out of control spending and maybe it will hit you how ridiculous our current situation is.

 

[Xenophage]

You also need to keep in mind that the vast majority of government services you see and use on a daily basis are provided by local and state governments. Even if you eliminated 90% of the Federal Government, you'd still have your roads, your police force, your fire departments, the criminal courts, etc.

 

[Agent CSL]

most of these taxes you mention are state and local taxes, not federal taxes. The FBI doesn't give out speeding tickets. The Fed doesn't get anything from the Illinois toll roads.

Here's something that should always stay in your mind. We are the United States of America, not the United States for the Government. There are 3 levels - local, state, federal. The Federal government used to be there to keep the states in check and protect freedoms but over the many years it seems the Government of the US has come to regulate everything. Instead of the States calling their individual shots, now the US Government does. Sure it seems easier to regulate at a federal level, but then calling it the United States of America would not be true. You might as well erase the borders of our states and call it a solid country.

The state gets money from local taxes, speeding tickets, and other fines. The state tries it's damnest to use that money in the state for highways, education, public services, etc.

Some people think the income tax goes to pay for all these services, but it doesn't. State taxes pay for our services. Our income tax goes to pay off our National debt. National debt from wars and military. Military is the only thing I find acceptable for the Government to have control of at a federal level and they abused the privilege.

Removing the income tax would be bad only because then our national debt would skyrocket due to interest. So that's why removing the Fed and Income Tax needs to come hand-in-hand. What would happen if we removed the income tax is a freer market with massive growth. Imagine if we spent our income tax on something we wanted. When you get your rebate check, what's the first thing you do? Save or spend. Spending money within our economy makes our economy stronger. Businesses benefit, could afford to expand (more jobs), people are happier, credit debt would be lowered individually.

It's kind of an OBVIOUS sign that getting rid of the income tax would be a good thing for the economy because wasn't it Bush who just made a Stimulus Package, which gives a bigger tax rebate, so the economy would fare better?

 

[Xenophage]

Here's something that should always stay in your mind. We are the United States of America, not the United States for the Government. There are 3 levels - local, state, federal. The Federal government used to be there to keep the states in check and protect freedoms but over the many years it seems the Government of the US has come to regulate everything. Instead of the States calling their individual shots, now the US Government does. Sure it seems easier to regulate at a federal level, but then calling it the United States of America would not be true. You might as well erase the borders of our states and call it a solid country.

The state gets money from local taxes, speeding tickets, and other fines. The state tries it's damnest to use that money in the state for highways, education, public services, etc.

Some people think the income tax goes to pay for all these services, but it doesn't. State taxes pay for our services. Our income tax goes to pay off our National debt. National debt from wars and military. Military is the only thing I find acceptable for the Government to have control of at a federal level and they abused the privilege.

Removing the income tax would be bad only because then our national debt would skyrocket due to interest. So that's why removing the Fed and Income Tax needs to come hand-in-hand. What would happen if we removed the income tax is a freer market with massive growth. Imagine if we spent our income tax on something we wanted. When you get your rebate check, what's the first thing you do? Save or spend. Spending money within our economy makes our economy stronger. Businesses benefit, could afford to expand (more jobs), people are happier, credit debt would be lowered individually.

It's kind of an OBVIOUS sign that getting rid of the income tax would be a good thing for the economy because wasn't it Bush who just made a Stimulus Package, which gives a bigger tax rebate, so the economy would fare better?

Marry me?

 

[fahayek]

Here's something that should always stay in your mind. We are the United States of America, not the United States for the Government. There are 3 levels - local, state, federal. The Federal government used to be there to keep the states in check and protect freedoms but over the many years it seems the Government of the US has come to regulate everything. Instead of the States calling their individual shots, now the US Government does. Sure it seems easier to regulate at a federal level, but then calling it the United States of America would not be true. You might as well erase the borders of our states and call it a solid country.

The state gets money from local taxes, speeding tickets, and other fines. The state tries it's damnest to use that money in the state for highways, education, public services, etc.

Some people think the income tax goes to pay for all these services, but it doesn't. State taxes pay for our services. Our income tax goes to pay off our National debt. National debt from wars and military. Military is the only thing I find acceptable for the Government to have control of at a federal level and they abused the privilege.

Removing the income tax would be bad only because then our national debt would skyrocket due to interest. So that's why removing the Fed and Income Tax needs to come hand-in-hand. What would happen if we removed the income tax is a freer market with massive growth. Imagine if we spent our income tax on something we wanted. When you get your rebate check, what's the first thing you do? Save or spend. Spending money within our economy makes our economy stronger. Businesses benefit, could afford to expand (more jobs), people are happier, credit debt would be lowered individually.

It's kind of an OBVIOUS sign that getting rid of the income tax would be a good thing for the economy because wasn't it Bush who just made a Stimulus Package, which gives a bigger tax rebate, so the economy would fare better?

Saving makes out economy stronger too

 

[PC_for_Paul]

Before the income tax the federal gov got it's money from levying tariffs on imported goods. The has 2 effects:
1. The federal gov has a supply of income.
2. Give incentives for local Business and Manufacturers, They get an advantage when all things are equal.

By products include more US jobs and a deterrent for corporations that want to export jobs, and reducing costs for companies with one less thing to keep up with.

 

[misterbig]

Before the income tax the federal gov got it's money from levying tariffs on imported goods. The has 2 effects:
1. The federal gov has a supply of income.
2. Give incentives for local Business and Manufacturers, They get an advantage when all things are equal.

By products include more US jobs and a deterrent for corporations that want to export jobs, and reducing costs for companies with one less thing to keep up with.

Actually, tariffs have the following effects:

1) Increasing the price of imported goods
2) Increasing the price of domestic goods
3) Decreasing the demand for exports (since fewer US dollars get exported)
4) Shifting resources away from efficient production and moving it to less efficient production.

This is covered in any basic economics textbook.

In general, tariffs are bad for consumers.

 

[RonRules]

Here is the info you are looking for, this should be a MUST read for all Ron Paul supporters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget,_2007

$1,163 billion - Individual income tax
$869.6 billion - Social Security and other payroll taxes
$370.2 billion - Corporate income tax
$65.1 billion - Excise taxes
$26.0 billion - Customs duties
$26.0 billion - Estate and gift taxes
$47.2 billion - Other

Here is another fact that you need to be able to remember and present to anybody you discuss Ron Paul with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Budget
United States federal budget, 2008 - $2.90 trillion (submitted 2007 by President Bush)
United States federal budget, 2000 - $1.8 trillion (submitted 1999 by President Clinton)
_______________________________________________________________________
The difference for just 8 freaking years: 1.1Trillion dollars = 2008 Individual Income tax expected.

Our federal budget has gone up by THE ENTIRE INCOME TAX AMOUNT in just 8 years. Take into account that the 2000 budget was bloated after 8 years of Democratic out of control spending and maybe it will hit you how ridiculous our current situation is.

Although, we could indeed cut personal income taxes, I would prefer if they completely cut corporate taxes, savings interest taxes and capital gains. Imagine all the bean counting that corporations would save. Many foreign companies would set up their headquarters here instead of the Cayman Islands. That would total up to around 400 bil and the economy would get an enormous boost. You'd have a 10% increase per year in GDP.

 

[misterbig]

Although, we could indeed cut personal income taxes, I would prefer if they completely cut corporate taxes

I dont think this is a good idea at all. Corporate taxes are paid out of profits not gross revenues (unlike personal income taxes). Removing this tax, aside from creating a shortfall of revenues, will only benefit a small handful of individuals. Most definitely not the workers.

Removing the income tax, on the other hand, benefits the entire working class.

 

[RonRules]

I dont think this is a good idea at all. Corporate taxes are paid out of profits not gross revenues (unlike personal income taxes). Removing this tax, aside from creating a shortfall of revenues, will only benefit a small handful of individuals. Most definitely not the workers.

Removing the income tax, on the other hand, benefits the entire working class.

What people need are jobs, good jobs in a growing economy. Nobody minds paying 25% tax when your income is growing at 10% per year and the future is bright.

The revenue shortfall from corporate income tax is 370 bil, which will immediately get re-invested in the businesses. The revenue shortfall from personal income taxes is 1100 bil, which I doubt we can afford. Can we cut fed spending by more than 50% in a year or two? No way, without huge fed worker problems. They just won't sit still.

 

[nosebruise]

i mind.

are you shitting me?
25% even when my income is growing at 10% is still a QUARTER of my money that i'm not getting because the government apparently owns my life and labor.
screw that.



i might NOT mind if the government could actually do something with that money other than waste it. that money means a lot more to me than it does getting swallowed up in bureaucratic and political BS.

 

[misterbig]

What people need are jobs, good jobs in a growing economy. Nobody minds paying 25% tax when your income is growing at 10% per year and the future is bright.

The revenue shortfall from corporate income tax is 370 bil, which will immediately get re-invested in the businesses. The revenue shortfall from personal income taxes is 1100 bil, which I doubt we can afford. Can we cut fed spending by more than 50% in a year or two? No way, without huge fed worker problems. They just won't sit still.

Removing the corporate income tax will not cause an increase in funds reinvested into the business. Again, corporate income tax is paid on profits not gross revenue. Businesses already try to minimize their profit by investing as much as possible in infrastructure.

What happens to the workforce if we eliminate the bulk of unconstitutional federal spending? Economics gives us the answer. The supply of laborers will increase, and wages will correspondingly go down. Hopefully the decrease in wages is more than offset by the elimination of income tax.

There is no doubt that cutting government spending and replacing the debt based currency system with a more ethical system will cause a fairly large disruption in the economy. However I am certain that after the dust settles, America as a whole will be much better off. Even if we do nothing and accept the current system, we are still facing a disruption. The difference is that with monetary and spending reform, we will stop the perpetual redistribution of wealth away from the people to the elites.

 

[slacker921]

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/256/
has some more info on the whole "get rid of the income tax and we'll be at the same budget level we were at 10 years ago" debate. They found the statement by Ron Paul to be believable.

Some of the savings Ron Paul is suggesting is bringing some (and eventually most) of the military bases that we have parked in 160+ countries around the world HOME. This would pump money back into the US economy through jobs here in the US, the servicemen and women would be spending their incomes here in the US, supplies would be coming from the US rather than being purchased locally in foreign countries, etc.. those military personnel could help secure our borders which would mean fewer illegal aliens entering the workforce.