I Received a Response From Debbie Hopper on Money Bomb

[low preference guy]

Is Lyingman getting a cut?

No, according to his words.

 

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Rand Paul's campaign was investigated by the FEC for having the ticker up. Better to play by the rules this time even if they are stoopid rulez.

* I don't know the details, but if anyone else does, would you be so kind as to share?

If someone can cite the FEC guideline stating a running count of your money is illegal, I'd love to see it.

Or where it says it's not okay to have a permanent running total, but perfectly legal to do it for a day or two for money bombs.

Free the ticker!

 

[low preference guy]

Or where it says it's not okay to have a permanent running total, but perfectly legal to do it for a day or two for money bombs.

That's what I thought too.

 

[Nate-ForLiberty]

If someone can cite the FEC guideline stating a running count of your money is illegal, I'd love to see it.

Or where it says it's not okay to have a permanent running total, but perfectly legal to do it for a day or two for money bombs.

Free the ticker!

I totally agree with you. I think it's stupid. But the Feds don't want us there, and they will use any legal strategy they can to keep us out. We can't give them easy pickins'. Of course, maybe there isn't any real legal basis for keeping the ticker down. Maybe that's what they wanted, simply to keep the ticker off the website.

It just occurred to me that the campaign puts the ticker up at the start of a moneybomb with it reading $0. Why not have the ticker up there monthly or weekly and just start it over each month/week? The grassroots could then keep a graph of how much we are raising each week. There has to be a way around this.

*This would keep the official total raised amount off the website, yet give us something to work toward.

 

[LibertyMage]

I emailed Trevor Lyman...

1. Stop worrying about what "the official campaign" does and focus on spreading the word.

2. If Trevor is being a douche, just make sure to let people know what he has done in the past. People will continue to work him out of the equation.

 

[Sweman]

Yes, it is. The less traction the moneybomb gets or the less people know about the moneybomb, the less likely the campaign will pick up on it. Trevor doesn't determine what moneybomb is going to be the ONE, facebook does. If it finds its way onto that Ron paul 2012 site, the campaign will pick up on it and its over.

I was too quick on that one, hence my edit. I agree, but I thought Sentinelrv was only aiming at the official campaign. Not DailyPaul.

APART FROM THAT. I think it is important not to divide the donations. The campaign should not promote the 7/4 bomb.

 

[MRoCkEd]

Rand Paul's campaign was investigated by the FEC for having the ticker up.

Huh? I don't think this is true.

 

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Huh? I don't think this is true.

"They" (assuming Jack Conway's campaign since Rand Paul's ticker disappeared around June 2010; Trey Grayson had more honor) did, in fact, file an FEC complaint against the owner of RandPaulGraphs.com.

The FEC is supposed to be about transparency, so why would it be against the rules to be more transparent with a permanent running total? Since when is it illegal to simply inform people how much money your campaign has raised at any given time?

 

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Huh? I don't think this is true.

I thought there were some threads here about that.

 

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Ok, after further searching, it looks like I was mistaken about the FEC and Rand Paul. Although, they did fine Rand's campaign $8,000 for misreporting some donations. The FEC has gone after the C4L. Here is a link to Daily Paul with a letter from Tate.

http://www.dailypaul.com/138810/fec-has-launched-a-pair-of-investigations-on-campaign-for-liberty


So there wasn't a big stink with Rand and the FEC, just a small no biggie. But I think what RonPaul2012 is trying to do is keep the FEC completely out of the game.

 

[libertybrewcity]

I was too quick on that one, hence my edit. I agree, but I thought Sentinelrv was only aiming at the official campaign. Not DailyPaul.

APART FROM THAT. I think it is important not to divide the donations. The campaign should not promote the 7/4 bomb.

agreed.

 

[ThePursuitOfLiberty]

Once again - the movement is about a certain number of individuals and in-fighting rather than the bigger picture... It doesn't surprise me - however - because this will continue to happen. Deflate the heads and reignite this campaign the way it should really be...

It's so sad - the internet is the best (and worse) thing to come to this movement.... Connecting so many like-minded people, yet giving those same people enough time to let their egos run wild and run this movement a muck.

(and I don't want to hear the, "Oooh, look.... He's a new poster, blah blah blah, what does he know, he's new to this movement"....
I've been in the streets for many, many years and asking the tough questions and getting the right answers.... doing what the majority of those on these boards should be doing.)

How about all the couch-potato activists with too much time on your hands; drop the egos, grow some social skills and get out on the streets and really make a difference for this campaign because it's not going to be money bombs that win this campaign (see: 2008) - It's going to be our volunteers on the streets, going door to door, and actually putting the time and effort in.

Remember, selfless and selfish are two strong words separated by few letters and far fewer actions..

 

[MelissaWV]

Once again - the movement is about a certain number of individuals and in-fighting rather than the bigger picture... It doesn't surprise me - however - because this will continue to happen. Deflate the heads and reignite this campaign the way it should really be...

It's so sad - the internet is the best (and worse) thing to come to this movement.... Connecting so many like-minded people, yet giving those same people enough time to let their egos run wild and run this movement a muck.

(and I don't want to hear the, "Oooh, look.... He's a new poster, blah blah blah, what does he know, he's new to this movement"....
I've been in the streets for many, many years and asking the tough questions and getting the right answers.... doing what the majority of those on these boards should be doing.)

How about all the couch-potato activists with too much time on your hands; drop the egos, grow some social skills and get out on the streets and really make a difference for this campaign because it's not going to be money bombs that win this campaign (see: 2008) - It's going to be our volunteers on the streets, going door to door, and actually putting the time and effort in.

Remember, selfless and selfish are two strong words separated by few letters and far fewer actions..

Perhaps you haven't been around as long as you say, because if you had been you'd know that money is a pretty important thing. It fills ChipIns so that those couch potatoes with no social skills and huge ego problems can get to where they are going, and actually volunteer. It buys commercial time. It pays staffers who can research the other candidates' shortcomings, write great speeches, and negotiate with mainstream shows to get Ron booked and on the air. It buys transportation for staffers and candidates alike. It pays for any number of amazing things.

See: 2008, indeed. What was going on at this time of year in 2007? *crickets* Not a whole lot. Certainly not millions of dollars in coordinated online donations, a couple of wins at straw polls, various high-profile appearances on programs people actually watch, organization for Ames, forward-thinking planning of MBs (even if not everyone agrees, yet), and rallying by people who were elected in the wake of the wave Dr. Paul created the election before.

I agree that some deflation needs to happen. Logic needs to rule the day, here.

Ready, Ames, Fire has already been promoted a bit, already has many pledges, and is spaced far enough away from the last money bomb that it gives people time to recover. It also gives people time to promote this, and on the flipside it gives the campaign enough time to fund the Iowa projects most in need of help. It's early enough to get boots on the ground in Ames afterwards. It's late enough to give everyone a breather and get the word out. I can't think of a better date for it. July 4th certainly isn't better. It's too close to the last one, it's a weekend where people will be out with family and friends (and not sitting at a computer screen, except some die-hards), and it's a media field day for OTHER STORIES. Dr. Paul could raise $10,000,000 on July 4th and it would get drowned out by some other thing... maybe a wildfire started by fireworks, or some cute doggie that looks like it's pledging to the flag.

So yep, I invite you to look at the bigger picture, and to keep the insults under wraps.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

Once again - the movement is about a certain number of individuals and in-fighting rather than the bigger picture... It doesn't surprise me - however - because this will continue to happen. Deflate the heads and reignite this campaign the way it should really be...

It's so sad - the internet is the best (and worse) thing to come to this movement.... Connecting so many like-minded people, yet giving those same people enough time to let their egos run wild and run this movement a muck.

(and I don't want to hear the, "Oooh, look.... He's a new poster, blah blah blah, what does he know, he's new to this movement"....
I've been in the streets for many, many years and asking the tough questions and getting the right answers.... doing what the majority of those on these boards should be doing.)

How about all the couch-potato activists with too much time on your hands; drop the egos, grow some social skills and get out on the streets and really make a difference for this campaign because it's not going to be money bombs that win this campaign (see: 2008) - It's going to be our volunteers on the streets, going door to door, and actually putting the time and effort in.

Remember, selfless and selfish are two strong words separated by few letters and far fewer actions..

I think part of this is inescapable human nature, and I don't see much infighting in this thread...

As much as I agree with your suggestion that people get out in the streets, the messages we are getting from other quarters is not to even talk to people, because of the risk of going off message. That causes a real problem with the moneybombs as that is the only thing many are left to work with, hence too many chiefs...

 

[steph3n]

If someone can cite the FEC guideline stating a running count of your money is illegal, I'd love to see it.

Or where it says it's not okay to have a permanent running total, but perfectly legal to do it for a day or two for money bombs.

Free the ticker!

govt can't have too much transparency you know! People must be in the dark.

 

[angelatc]

I thought there were some threads here about that.

It appears we can haz ticker:
Straight from the FEC site:

MUR 6270
RESPONDENTS: Rand Paul for U.S. Senate and Eric D. Stein, in his official capacity as treasurer; Rand Paul; Committee to Re-Elect Ron Paul and Lori Pyeatt, in her official capacity as treasurer; Rep. Ron Paul; www.RandPaulGraphs.com; Coalition opposed to Additional Spending and Taxes Candidates PAC and Mark Miller, in his official capacity as treasurer; Alchemy, LLC; Owensboro Dermatology Associates, P.S.C.; www.RandsTeaParty.com; Campaign for Liberty and John Tate, its president; and David Adams
COMPLAINANT: Johnathan C. Gay

SUBJECT: The complaint alleged several violations by Rand Paul for U.S. Senate and Eric D. Stein, in his official capacity as treasurer, and other respondents, regarding (1) undisclosed excessive in-kind contributions resulting from coordinated communications and related allegations; (2) disclaimer violations; (3) failure to disclose rental payments; and (4) the making and receipt of corporate contributions.

DISPOSITION: The Commission found no reason to believe that Rand Paul for U.S. Senate and Stein, in his official capacity as treasurer, failed to disclose excessive in-kind contributions and to provide required disclaimers arising from coordinated communications in the form of

(1) email solicitations by Rep. Paul, the Committee to Re-Elect Ron Paul and Pyeatt, in her official capacity as treasurer,
(2) email solicitations from the Coalition Opposed to Additional Spending and Taxes Candidates PAC (COAST PAC), and
(3) updates of contributions, which were received by Rand Paul for U.S. Senate, on the website www.RandPaulGraphs.com,

because none of the communications at issue satisfied the content prong of coordination since they were neither electioneering communications nor public communications.

The Commission exercised its prosecutorial discretion and dismissed the allegation that Rand Paul for U.S. Senate sent mailers lacking the printed boxes required to be around disclaimers, and that emails sent by Rand Paul for U.S. Senate lacked required disclaimers, because the associated costs were likely minimal.

The Commission found no reason to believe Rand Paul for U.S. Senate’s television ads and robocalls lacked disclaimers;

it exercised its prosecutorial discretion and dismissed the allegation that a newspaper ad supporting Rand Paul lacked a disclaimer, because the Commission had no information on who placed the ad.

The Commission exercised its prosecutorial discretion regarding the allegation that Rand Paul for U.S. Senate failed to disclose rent paid to Alchemy, LLC for the use of campaign office space, because Rand Paul for U.S. Senate acknowledged the error and amended its reports, and the Commission sent a letter reminding the committee of the disclosure requirements of the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971, as amended (the Act).

The Commission also found no reason to believe Alchemy, LLC made an excessive contribution since its in-kind contribution to Rand Paul for U.S. Senate was within the Act’s limits.

The Commission exercised its prosecutorial discretion and dismissed the allegation that Owensboro Dermatology Associates, P.S.C. (ODA) made and Rand Paul for U.S. Senate received a prohibited corporate contribution because the committee failed to reimburse ODA for expenses for an open house at which Paul was a featured guest, since it is likely that the costs of the open house were relatively low; the Commission found no reason to believe ODA failed to include a disclaimer on its invitation to its open house because the invitation did not solicit contributions, expressly advocate the election of a clearly identified candidate or constitute an electioneering communication.

The Commission also found no reason to believe Campaign for Liberty and John Tate, its president, failed to include a disclaimer on an email sent to Campaign for Liberty contributors or members.

Finally, the Commission found no reason to believe that David Adams violated the disclaimer provision of the Act.

 

[ItsTime]

Why wont he change it? Most everyone (but him and a few others) see how bad of a marketing idea it is to have it on the 4th. Oh well, he does claim he is the king of the money bombs so lets home he can over all the negative aspects of his current money bombs, including the last one that had such a bad theme the official campaign didn't even want to use it on their ticker, to make it multi million dollar bomb.

I think the dates Bryan has outlined are much better.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I was using 1.5 as merely an example, as to Trevor, I just think that he does deserve a lot of credit for basically inventing this idea for the RP campaign and I'm no expert on fund raising but I'm not going to question him or anyone else who is.

He's not an expert. He may have started it, but that doesn't make him an "expert" on fundraising. Almost anyone could have done that, and you should think for yourself and look at what the majority wants instead of looking at one person as an unquestionable figure.

 

[ItsTime]

He's not an expert. He may have started it, but that doesn't make him an "expert" on fundraising. Almost anyone could have done that, and you should think for yourself and look at what the majority wants instead of looking at one person as an unquestionable figure.

He did not start it, it was not his idea he made a website and harvested emails for personal gain on the backs of the grassroots in 2007 who thought they were pushing people to his websites FOR THE MONEYBOMB and nothing else. So, the tension towards Trevor you may feel here.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

He did not start it, it was not his idea he made a website and harvested emails for personal gain on the backs of the grassroots in 2007 who thought they were pushing people to his websites FOR THE MONEYBOMB and nothing else. So, the tension towards Trevor you may feel here.

If he didn't actually start it, I apologize since I don't actually know who did. I do feel tension toward Trevor, and I can't understand why he is trying to fight the will of the grassroots, but the fact that he has gained (a lot!) from moneybombs in the past gives me an idea of why.

Think of it this way. He benefited $24,000 from Rand's campaign. That's like hundreds of peoples' donations to the campaign going straight into Lyman's pocket. Does that seem fair to you?