I Lost My Religion

[CasualApathy]

Why do you feel you need to believe in something supernatural? This would seem to be the source of your difficulty. If so, maybe I can help. Let’s look closer. Is this feeling really your own, or has it been learned from others (programmed by others)? If it’s the latter, do you really want to hold on to it if it’s not your own? If it’s not, some or all of these four common causes probably explains the source of your feeling that you need to believe:

1.) Because those who profess to represent said supernatural (religious leaders) have said that you need to believe;
2.) Because your general peer group has said that you need to believe;
3.) Because you desire to believe the pleasant parts (false desire created by said leaders and groups);
4.) Because you fear what might happen if you don’t believe the unpleasant parts (false fear created by said leaders and groups).

And if it’s not really yours, it’s not REAL belief. It may be things like hope and faith and fear and brainwashing, but it’s not real belief. Real belief is what an individual has, only after much independent study and analysis. Never underestimate the power of programmed beliefs (and feelings) to mimic/resemble authentic ones.

For example, here’s a real belief (that I think you agree with): “As evidenced by Bush’s presidencies and Perry’s potential, mass-programmed religious belief continue to present a serious obstacle to Individual Liberty.”

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Everyone's religious, bro. Some just put their faith in science or some other "logical" belief system, others choose "revealed" religions. It is my contention that statism in all its manifestations is a religious belief. /end ramble

 

[CasualApathy]

Everyone's religious, bro. Some just put their faith in science or some other "logical" belief system, others choose "revealed" religions. It is my contention that statism in all its manifestations is a religious belief. /end ramble

One belief is not the same as the next though, of course we all believe in some things, I for one find it hard to argue with the belief that gravity will probably still be in effect tomorrow, I do not know this of course, but I choose to live my life believing it. I also believe in other things, like love and that drinking that refreshing cool bottle of Coca Cola probably wont give me lead poisoning or worse. Those are all rational beliefs based on experience and knowledge though, religion is something else entirely.

 

[CasualApathy]

One belief is not the same as the next though, of course we all believe in some things, I for one find it hard to argue with the belief that gravity will probably still be in effect tomorrow, I do not know this of course, but I choose to live my life believing it. I also believe in other things, like love and that drinking that refreshing cool bottle of Coca Cola probably wont give me lead poisoning or worse. Those are all rational beliefs based on experience and knowledge though, religion is something else entirely.

Edit: well except for love perhaps

 

[CasualApathy]

Btw, I know that you can also make a perfectly reasonable philosophical argument that we don't know anything for sure at all, but that's just silly IMHO. Matrix was still a sweet movie though ;D

 

[WilliamC]

Everyone's an atheist, bro. Some just hide their skepticism in religion or some other "faith" belief system, others choose "supernatural" religions. It is my contention that statism in all its manifestations is a atheistic belief. /end ramble

Fixed it for you.

See how easy it is to make baseless assertions?

Must be nice to know what everyone else believes.

I certainly don't claim to.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I used to go to church every Sunday. ...I won't ever renounce Jesus but I can't go to church anymore with those people.

The Church as an institution is just another organization of people. It will have all of the same pros and cons as any group of people. You might try a different church for fellowship. At least it is easy to change churches, as opposed to changing government.

And here's the obvious song for this thread.

 

[Southron]

If they were warmongers I certainly would seek a better church.

It"s different if it's being preached from the pulpit as opposed to the random beliefs of church members.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I bet you have no idea what epistemology is.

 

[idirtify]

I BELIEVE that people have the natural capacity to reason, no matter how indoctrinated, and that I can pit their nature against their indoctrination. It’s actually pretty easy to appeal to their sense of reason, since most of what they do and say has it as a foundation. It may often be a futile exercise in verbal conversation, but it usually works beautifully in online discussions; and it’s a very educational exercise too. But the bottom line: I enjoy it.

 

[Revolution9]

I did not loose my faith in Jesus I lost my desire to congregate with Christians.

They were zio-xtians. They did not follow Jesus one command and Law but adhere to Mosaic Law which makes the Gospel of Christ useless to them. "Lift a stone and I am there" doesn't mean he is hiding under a rock. It means every time you "work" you are using life energy.

BTW...I figured this out at 13 and stopped being an altar boy and going to church. I never stopped praying or blessing and learned much more because I was not bound by the fetters of dogma and false interpretations of what is basically a metaphysical and alchemical text not to be read literally, but metaphorically.

Rev9

 

[Revolution9]

I BELIEVE that people have the natural capacity to reason, no matter how indoctrinated, and that I can pit their nature against their indoctrination. It’s actually pretty easy to appeal to their sense of reason, since most of what they do and say has it as a foundation. It may often be a futile exercise in verbal conversation, but it usually works beautifully in online discussions; and it’s a very educational exercise too. But the bottom line: I enjoy it.

You are much less effective at your sanctimonious prattle than you give yourself credit for. Essentially you stand on your soapbox and tell others they do not perceive what they do and chalk that up to a philosophical victory on your part. Pure bogification and similar to an Inquisitor in line of thinking.

I am not impressed and neither should any who hold well founded and thought out beliefs, nor especially those who can claim direct experience.

Rev9

 

[Revolution9]

I bet you have no idea what epistemology is.

He is stuck on auto-blither like some self fascinated punk rocker who considers himself adept because he can say "f*** you".

HTH
Rev9

 

[Southron]

I also want to point out that that there have been several threads asking how to reach people in the "Bible belt". You are going to have less influence on Christians if you choose to disassociate from them.

 

[Revolution9]

Why do you feel you need to believe in something supernatural?

Super = above, over and natural means...natural. I didn't bootstrap my ass into an upright position on my own. Naturally I assume there to be an overarching energetic that causes bootstrapping to occur. To deny this is to deny the experience of my own senses. To deny others this coalescence of supernatural energetics that causes them to come into being puts your headspace four square into the world of the blindered materialist. But then your handle is I-dirt-If-y.



Rev9

 

[idirtify]

You are much less effective at your sanctimonious prattle than you give yourself credit for. Essentially you stand on your soapbox and tell others they do not perceive what they do and chalk that up to a philosophical victory on your part. Pure bogification and similar to an Inquisitor in line of thinking.

I am not impressed and neither should any who hold well founded and thought out beliefs, nor especially those who can claim direct experience.

Rev9

You begin by saying I’m less effective than I give myself credit for, but then call me an “Inquisitor”. Hmm.

You call my posts “sanctimonious”, yet I’m not the religious one here. Hmmm.

You say I tell others they do not perceive what they do, yet I just finished a couple pretty long discussions in this forum arguing FOR perception and against ones who claimed perceptions were 100% based on faith. Hmmmm.

You say you’re not impressed and neither should any who hold well founded and thought out beliefs, but IIRC you demonstrated an inability to sufficiently support at least a couple of your recent disagreements with me. Hmmmmm.

Of course that last one has nothing to do with your overall hostility to me. Right.

 

[idirtify]

Super = above, over and natural means...natural. I didn't bootstrap my ass into an upright position on my own. Naturally I assume there to be an overarching energetic that causes bootstrapping to occur. To deny this is to deny the experience of my own senses. To deny others this coalescence of supernatural energetics that causes them to come into being puts your headspace four square into the world of the blindered materialist. But then your handle is I-dirt-If-y.



Rev9

You think something supernatural caused our species to stand upright and walk? Why? You think not thinking this makes me a “blindered materialist”? Why? Do you not know about all the perfectly natural means for the development of standing and walking? To what exactly am I “blindered”?

 

[CasualApathy]

I bet you have no idea what epistemology is.

You'd be wrong, In fact I took a great interest in philosophy in my teens and even considered making it my profession, until I decided I didn't want to live my life dirt poor I still read a lot though in my spare time, In fact I just finished reading "An Inquiry into Meaning and Truth" by Bertrand Russell just last week (I can't really recommend it though, I found it to be a rather taxing read and not very interesting to be honest, but that's Bertrand Russell for ya I guess.)

 

[Working Poor]

Don't bring up politics at church if it is going to make you angry. Would you disown your family if they disagreed with your politics?

No but my family has definatly distanced themselves from me over my political views.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

People often confuse religion, and the institutions that claim to promote it.

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep himself unspotted from the world. James 1:27

"Religion" is a lifestyle; nothing more, nothing less...