I lost custody of my son for refusing to vaccinate

This is quite horrible. I was born and raised in Michigan where I was not required to be vaccinated. It wasn't until I had to go to Iraq for work with the military that I was finally vaccinated after several weeks of trying to find a way out of it.

It sucks that they vaccinated him. That's a form of child abuse in and of itself if you and he were against it.

What state do you live in? Each state has its own statutes on what basis you can refuse vaccinations. Some allow you to based purely on a philosophical disagreement with vaccinations.

I would sue the hell out of the state and ask for damages and then take your money and run to New Hampshire.

I am in Missouri which does have the religious exemption. As stated in my original post, the Supreme Court ruled that one does not have to belong to a particular antivaccinating church for the exclusion to apply.

However, the Guardian does not know the law and told me that the religious exclusion does not apply to me as I am neither RLDS nor Amish.
 
I agree there is no mention of contract which was relevant to my point of voluntarily leaving a matter entirely up to a state.

I would not expect a state to do anything less than try to establish jurisdiction over every person or thing regardless of any prohibitions in state constitutions. It is up to an individual to rebut presumptions of jurisdiction legislated in state statue or supported with case precedent at all times.

Regarding "some courts jurisdiction" Do you think that is an absolute where an arbitrator could not be substituted for "court" under any circumstances in any contract?

The alleged heartless contexts of my posts do not address who the dispute is between but I agree with you it's unclear where a charge originated.

The reason I made the point about "some court's jurisdiction" is that those were the cases you cited. Sure there are contracts where disputes are left to "binding arbitration" (and sometimes the courts annul those agreements as unconscionable) but again it's a contract dispute. Contracts require at least two parties to agree. You mention case precedent. Do you have any case where someone wins based on declaring in court "I have this unilateral contract that I signed that states this state does not have jurisdiction over me and/or my child"?
 
Silly

Any SCOTUS case I cite where the lower court was reversed (such as the two previous) or a reversal over invalid service of process means your arguments are not absolute. Rulings can and have been reversed.

You are setting up a straw man. I never said all service of process is valid. I said that consent is not needed for valid service of process.
 
I don't think vaccinations are so bad. If you gotta do it, you gotta do it. I'm sure the elitist offspring take the vaccinations. I'm ancap, but why make things hard on yourself over something you aren't positive is bad for you?
 
I am in Missouri which does have the religious exemption. As stated in my original post, the Supreme Court ruled that one does not have to belong to a particular antivaccinating church for the exclusion to apply.

However, the Guardian does not know the law and told me that the religious exclusion does not apply to me as I am neither RLDS nor Amish.

Is the Guardian an attorney? Which Supreme Court case are you citing? (Having trouble finding it). I did find two cases from New York of Pantheists challenging vaccine laws. In the first the Pantheist won.

(Look for "Sherr v. Northport-East Northport" in : http://www.publichealthlaw.net/Research/PDF/vaccine.pdf)

In the second she lost. The judge ruled that her religious believe was not "sincere" enough because she took medicine such as Moutrin and "essential oils". (Nonsense ruling as essential oil is a natural non prescription product).

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202447652557

I'm wondering, however, which law in particular is the state using to snatch your child? The Missouri state law (that I've found anyway) on vaccination only requires you to vaccinate your child if you are sending him to a "public, parochial or private" school. But you have a constitutional right to homeschool or even not school at all. (Wisconsin v. Yoder). And what's the dad's stance in all of this? From the original post it doesn't sound like he's trying to be helpful, but is he neutral or antagonistic to your cause?
 
I don't think vaccinations are so bad. If you gotta do it, you gotta do it. I'm sure the elitist offspring take the vaccinations. I'm ancap, but why make things hard on yourself over something you aren't positive is bad for you?

People used to not think smoking was bad for you too. In WW II sailors were told to "thrash around" in the water to keep away the sharks. There's strong evidence to suggest vaccines may be bad for you. Why risk them on your children just because some other people don't think they are bad?
 
People used to not think smoking was bad for you too. In WW II sailors were told to "thrash around" in the water to keep away the sharks. There's strong evidence to suggest vaccines may be bad for you. Why risk them on your children just because some other people don't think they are bad?

because that's life. but hey, it aint me, so goodluck to her. I took them. I wasn't asked if I wanted them, it was mandatory for me to attend a public school. I had no choice. Homeschooling? I didn't even know what that was. When I have kids I'll let my wife make the decisions like that lol
 
It seems as though very few folks participating in the thread are clear on exactly what is going on. I feel like maybe we're only getting parts of the story, or perhaps the manner in which certain parts have been "revealed" have clouded the discussion...

I went from thinking the state took the child away CPS-kidnapping style because she refused to vaccinate the child, and then handed the child over to the father... what it's now starting to sound like to me is that the "medical neglect" aspect is just one part of a broader case that the father has made against the mother (likely in court).

Is this not correct?
 
Yes, they immediately vaccinate him.

Pardon my candor, but that is FUCKED UP.

I would kill them all, but don't follow my example.

I take it you cannot get junior away from his father, right? If you could I would suggest you take him to Brazil and tell the USA to screw themselves. This is rank insanity.

Seems the boy's father doesn't care much for him, is that correct? I mean, calling him "stupid" and all that. If he doesn't want him, adopt him out to someone you know (barring that, I'd even take him) and then take him back when you move to another state. I have real personal issues with the abuse of children, especially this sort.

What shit hole of a state are you cursed with living in, by the way?
 
I am in Missouri which does have the religious exemption. As stated in my original post, the Supreme Court ruled that one does not have to belong to a particular antivaccinating church for the exclusion to apply.

However, the Guardian does not know the law and told me that the religious exclusion does not apply to me as I am neither RLDS nor Amish.

When I began graduate school at CCNY in NYC I was told I would have to show proof of vaccination. I contemplated getting a note from my step father (doctor), but decided that the requirement was bullshit, so I told them that the requirement violated my first Amendment right because vaccination is against my religious belief. They then asked to what religion I belonged in an attempt to defeat me on that basis. To that I replied that my religious beliefs are my own and that they had no basis for asking such questions. They shut their traps, but asked that I give a written and signed statement to that effect, which I did, and I was allowed to register with the notice that if an epidemic broke out, I could be barred from attending classes. Yeah, whatever. Assholes.

Don't take shit from anyone. Fight them and their nonsense tooth and nail.
 
I don't think vaccinations are so bad. If you gotta do it, you gotta do it. I'm sure the elitist offspring take the vaccinations. I'm ancap, but why make things hard on yourself over something you aren't positive is bad for you?

OK, then try an experiment. Get your hands on some squalene, a common adjuvant component in some vaccines, and inject yourself with it. I'm serious - if you think they are not so bad, give it a try. If you are right you will suffer no ill effects. If you are wrong, you can let us know just how utterly destroyed your life has become. (hint: don't really try it because it probably WILL destroy your health)
 
This is quite horrible. I was born and raised in Michigan where I was not required to be vaccinated. It wasn't until I had to go to Iraq for work with the military that I was finally vaccinated after several weeks of trying to find a way out of it.

It sucks that they vaccinated him. That's a form of child abuse in and of itself if you and he were against it.

What state do you live in? Each state has its own statutes on what basis you can refuse vaccinations. Some allow you to based purely on a philosophical disagreement with vaccinations.

I would sue the hell out of the state and ask for damages and then take your money and run to New Hampshire.


Hello Elwar an welcome to this thread. Too bad we didn't get a chance to talk before your mandatory military vaccines. I found a nonprofit organization that defends soldier's vaccine exemptions.

I am in Missouri which has the religious and medical exemptions only. The religious exemption applies to me.

I can't respond to your last comment as anything I say can and will be used against me. :)
 
What state are you in? Family law is different in all 50. It's a little fuzzy from the facts, but I take it that you were initially awarded custody post a divorce? Did the dad sue to get the custody changed or did the state take it 100% on itself to do this? It makes a big difference. State can "factor" in all sorts of crap under a "best interest of the child" standard when awarding custody to one parent or another that wouldn't pass muster a "unfit parent" standard used to take a child and put him in foster care.

I'm not up on the particulars of vaccine law, but the "You can't get an exemption unless you belong to one of two religions" doesn't pass the smell test. Personal faith is an individual right, not a right that you "earn" by being part of some particular "group".

Emailing Alex Jones is a waste of time. He simply gets too many emails. If you want on the show you need to call in. Some days it's easy to get in, other days it's not so easy.

Last point. Check your local law school. Most have legal clinics that can help with this sort of thing.

Hello, jmdrake and welcome to the thread. I'm in Missouri.

My son is nine years old and has been with me since birth, the dad and I were never married.

The ONLY reason a guardian was appointed was because my son is not vaccinated. I was accused and found guilty of medical neglect for not vaccinating. While I understand the "best interest of the child" theory, for the court to claim it is contrary to my son's best interest to refuse vaccinations, then everyone who opposes vaccinations is at risk for a court to take their children from them. Why would the Supreme Court rule that the parents have a Constitutional right if the Supreme Court thought that it was in violation of a child's best interest?

For those who might think that the father might have a right to vaccinate, he had a legal right at any time to take my son and vaccinate him and he had NINE years to do it. He did not need a court order.

The court could have also ruled that my son be vaccinated without taking him away from me. For those who think that I am a bad mother and there were other reasons I am not disclosing, you are wrong. I have two older sons who both graduated high school (one with a 4.0 GPA) and went on to college which I alone paid for.

Again, if the court was looking out for the best interest of the child, would they take him away from a mother with no criminal record or history of alcohol and/or drug abuse and give him to a father that is a documented alcohlic?

Dad has been in in-patient alcohol rehab at least three times, he was evicted from a half way house for alcohlics, he pled guilty to assault on a Police officer and served jail time and also violated his probation.

He also was charged with vandalizing my exhusband's car (the father of my two oldest children). My exhusband had his car finger printed and guess whose prints the found? How did they know whose prints they were? Because of his criminal record. I didn't date for eight years after the birth of my son, but low and behold the second guy I dated had his car vandalized on his property by someone who didn't know him well enough to know what a gun fanatic he was. (The first guy I dated had a four car garage so I guess he wasn't an accessible target).

So the "best interest of the child" scenario does not ring true. My attorney said that I was railroaded.
 
I am truly sorry that your son was taken away from you on such a trivial matter. I would like to suggest that you make your case known to this organization:

American Center for Law & Justice

Let them know as soon as you can. My prayers are with you.

Thank you, Theocrat. The ACLJ is an excellent idea. Also, I have supported them financially (quite a lot actually) in the past so maybe that will weigh in my favor!
 
I don't think vaccinations are so bad. If you gotta do it, you gotta do it. I'm sure the elitist offspring take the vaccinations. I'm ancap, but why make things hard on yourself over something you aren't positive is bad for you?

Hello, JosephTheLibertarian and welcome to the thread.

A wise person once said, "If you don't support free speech for those with ideas that conflict with your own, you don't support free speech at all". I guess the same could be said for other Constitutional issues and religious freedoms.

I am not willing to offend my God regardless of the consequences.

Do you support freedom, liberty and the Constitution? If so, you might want to rethink your post.
 
Is the Guardian an attorney?

Yes.

Which Supreme Court case are you citing? (Having trouble finding it).

I first cited title VII of the Civil Rights Act which can be found here:

http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title29/29-4.1.4.1.6.html

The second citation is from a Supreme Court ruling in Frazee vs. Illinois Dept. of Employment Security which can be found here:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0489_0829_ZS.html

I did find two cases from New York of Pantheists challenging vaccine laws. In the first the Pantheist won.

What is a Pantheist?

(Look for "Sherr v. Northport-East Northport" in : http://www.publichealthlaw.net/Research/PDF/vaccine.pdf)

Wow, that is book length. I didn't have time to read it all. However, I did find this interesting bit:

This trade-off on a population-wide basis may be unacceptable
to public health authorities because it can destroy the collective immunity of a population, thus
leading to outbreaks of diseases among VACCINATED and unvaccinated children.

In the second she lost. The judge ruled that her religious believe was not "sincere" enough because she took medicine such as Moutrin and "essential oils". (Nonsense ruling as essential oil is a natural non prescription product).

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202447652557

Now this second case is just wrong on so many levels. First of all the courts have no business determining the sincerity of one's religious beliefs. For example, I believe in gravity 100% but I can't explain scientifically why. Also, many Christian's strongly believe in a pretrib rapture (I don't), but couldn't explain why they do if their life depended on it.

However, when I tried to explain my beliefs in court the Guardian objected and the Commissioner sustained it.

I'm wondering, however, which law in particular is the state using to snatch your child?

That is a really good question. The guardian insisted that Missouri law dicatates that I vaccinate yet she refused to show me the law.

The Missouri state law (that I've found anyway) on vaccination only requires you to vaccinate your child if you are sending him to a "public, parochial or private" school. But you have a constitutional right to homeschool or even not school at all. (Wisconsin v. Yoder). And what's the dad's stance in all of this? From the original post it doesn't sound like he's trying to be helpful, but is he neutral or antagonistic to your cause?

Good points you make. Unfortunately, dad is antagonistic. If he were nurturing and caring for my son it would be easier to accept. Since he is treating my son so poorly and my baby is begging, crying and pleading to come home IT RIPS MY HEART OUT.
 
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