I lost custody of my son for refusing to vaccinate

Live_Free_Or_Die said:
Observation:

You voluntarily subjected your child and family to the jurisdiction of the state and now that things are not going your way you seem to be upset over how the state is regulating and intervening for what you voluntarily gave them permission to do.
Click to expand...

Dude...the state just took this woman's child away from her and you're blaming her for it? That's royally f'ed up!
 
BuddyRey said:
Dude...the state just took this woman's child away from her and you're blaming her for it? That's royally f'ed up!
Click to expand...

Pointing out how someone got into their situation doesn't mean he is assigning blame. I see it as a way to help one out in their predicament. You need to understand the cause before you can see the remedy.
 
BuddyRey said:
Dude...the state just took this woman's child away from her and you're blaming her for it? That's royally f'ed up!
Click to expand...

If the people pay the taxes of a tyrant who is at fault? The people or tyrant?

Do you mistake me for a politician who compromises to the whim of public opinion?

If by chance the OP obtained custody of the child tomorrow due to a magic legal bullet that may or may not exist would the OP have learned how to fish?
 
Live_Free_Or_Die said:
If the people pay the taxes of a tyrant who is at fault? The people or tyrant?
Click to expand...

Oh for God's sake. :rolleyes:

You act like the decision to pay taxes is the same as deciding what to have for lunch. You can avoid taxes but only up to a point. I don't believe for a second that you pay no taxes whatsoever.

Leave this woman alone.
 
Rael said:
Oh for God's sake. :rolleyes:

You act like the decision to pay taxes is the same as deciding what to have for lunch. You can avoid taxes but only up to a point. I don't believe for a second that you pay no taxes whatsoever.

Leave this woman alone.
Click to expand...

I bet Live_Free_Or_Die bought goods in a state with a sales tax, therefore paid taxes. Bottom line, he is an idiot.
 
Live_Free_Or_Die said:
Do you mistake me for a politician who compromises to the whim of public opinion?

?
Click to expand...

No, there's not much mistaking what you are.

If you want to spar, pick on me, not some poor woman who just lost a kid (who is probably closer to your age than she is.)
 
I'm sorry to hear of this. You may find help with one of these sites:

Law & The Constitution

abanet.org
abouthumanrights.co.uk
aclj.org
aclu.org
alipac.us
alliancedefensefund.org
billofrights.org
billofrightsinstitute.org
bordc.org
brokenlives.info
castlecoalition.org
ccrjustice.org
cldc.org
cnss.org
committeesofsafety.org
constitution.org
constitutionfacts.com
constitutionpreservation.org
copwatch.com
declaration.net
expertlaw.com
fed-soc.org
fija.org
findlaw.com
firstamendmentcenter.org
flexyourrights.org
ij.org
judgepedia.org
judicialwatch.org
learntheconstitution.com
lectlaw.com
legal-aid.org
liberty1.org
livefreenow.org
minutemanproject.com
minutemanproject.com
mountainstateslegal.com
nccs.net
nla.org
nrtw.org
penusa.org
policeabuse.com
proprights.com
randybarnett.com
ratemycop.com
rcfp.org
rightsworkinggroup.org
ruleoflawradio.com
rutherford.org
secession.net
sheriffmack.com
sickoflawsuits.org
sunlightfoundation.com
tassc.org
theacru.org
thomas.loc.gov
teamlaw.net
tenthamendmentcenter.com
usa1911.com
usconstitution.net
uslaw.com
 
possibilities

Try the county public defender's office.

See if a local law school has a pro bono service - they sometimes have students undertake pro bono projects.

Try nearby large law firms - they nearly always handle some pro bono matters to help them sleep at night.

See if there is a women's law center nearby.


And in the meantime, find something to do to bring yourself back into balance - meditation, yoga, something. You will make better decisions and make a better impression on judges etc. if you are calm and centered. I know it's hard. But it is in your son's interest that YOU are healthy, strong and calm.

And be prepared to compromise. The judicial machinery of the state is very bad at vindicating rights. Everyone will be better off if you can resolve the matter without the court.
 
I am not going to fully get in to service of process, jurisdiction, or rebutting a presumption but I will make a point citing an excerpt of state statues from one state:

61.507 Effect of child custody determination.--A child custody determination made by a court of this state which had jurisdiction under this part binds all persons who have been served in accordance with the laws of this state or notified in accordance with s. 61.509 (Notice to persons outside the state.) or who have submitted to the jurisdiction of the court, and who have been given an opportunity to be heard. As to those persons, the determination is conclusive as to all decided issues of law and fact except to the extent the determination is modified.
Click to expand...

Ruling excerpts:
The trial court erred in finding that John Doe failed to successfully rebut a presumption of valid service
Click to expand...

Service of process is required to notify any interested parties of the pendency of an action and afford them an opportunity to respond.
Click to expand...

It is the plaintiff's duty to accomplish proper service on a defendant.
Click to expand...

Although a defendant's sworn denial of receipt of service generally rebuts the presumption of proper service established by a process server's affidavit and necessitates an evidentiary hearing, no hearing is required where the defendant fails to swear to specific facts to rebut the statements in the process server's affidavits
Click to expand...

Let's get into the facts of receiving. If you receive there are two options 1) accept 2) rebut.

I accept this service of process conditioned on _________? What?

I am the idiot.... :rolleyes:

You all go ahead and help the OP with your sympathy. I will find another thread.
 
Wrong

Live_Free_Or_Die said:
I am not going to fully get in to service of process, jurisdiction, or rebutting a presumption but I will make a point citing an excerpt of state statues from one state:



Ruling excerpts:








Let's get into the facts of receiving. If you receive there are two options 1) accept 2) rebut.

I accept this service of process conditioned on _________? What?

I am the idiot.... :rolleyes:

You all go ahead and help the OP with your sympathy. I will find another thread.
Click to expand...


You can be served process without your acceptance. They will throw it at you and say "served" and as far as the court is concerned, you are served. Did you REALLY think you could avoid the jurisdiction of the court just by saying "I do not accept it"? You can't. Furthermore, the court or even an administrative agency can seize an asset - or a child - without serving you at all and the burden is on you to go to court and recover your property or child.
 
Acala said:
You can be served process without your acceptance. They will throw it at you and say "served" and as far as the court is concerned, you are served. Did you REALLY think you could avoid the jurisdiction of the court just by saying "I do not accept it"? You can't. Furthermore, the court or even an administrative agency can seize an asset - or a child - without serving you at all and the burden is on you to go to court and recover your property or child.
Click to expand...

If everything you receive is valid provide me your address in a private message. I have a bill I would like to send you.
 
I am not positive this can help, but it is worth contacting the Homeschool Legal Defense Association to find out. They help homeschool parents who are needing legal advise. Many homeschool parents choose not to vaccinate, and I think this association would have some information on the matter you are speaking of.

If this organization can't help, try blogging on some homeschool and natural health sites. I am sure there are parents who have already fought the courts on this issue, who could direct you.
 
Last edited:
silly

Live_Free_Or_Die said:
If everything you receive is valid provide me your address in a private message. I have a bill I would like to send you.
Click to expand...

I said nothing about validity. I said you can be served with court process without your consent. Happens all the time. All you have to do is be physically present and you can be served. Of course you can TRY to evade process by hiding. But your point - that some kind of willing acceptance is required for effective service of process - is false. And once you are served, regardless of whether you accepted it or not, you ARE within the court's jurisdiction and it WILL send the sheriff to enforce its orders. And you will not have to accept the sheriff's advances either. He'll bust a cap in your ass. That is where the force inherent in everything the state does comes unsheathed.
 
Acala said:
I said nothing about validity. I said you can be served with court process without your consent. Happens all the time. All you have to do is be physically present and you can be served. Of course you can TRY to evade process by hiding. But your point - that some kind of willing acceptance is required for effective service of process - is false. And once you are served, regardless of whether you accepted it or not, you ARE within the court's jurisdiction and it WILL send the sheriff to enforce its orders. And you will not have to accept the sheriff's advances either. He'll bust a cap in your ass. That is where the force inherent in everything the state does comes unsheathed.
Click to expand...

You argue a contradiction. If you admit service of process can be invalid then valid service of process must depend on something other than physical presence.

Regarding your suggestion of force are you asserting there is no remedy regarding the Detroit Police killing a 7 year old story? I would never assert people are not free to do whatever they want to do because it is self evident they are. If a person is free to shoot someone it makes no difference whether they are an officer or not. We are not talking about the fact people are free to do whatever they want.

The validity regarding service of process strikes at the heart of the matter. The fact is if you do not rebut the presumption implied (what is the presumption implied?) and have been physically served.... it is valid.
 
romacox said:
I am not positive this can help, but it is worth contacting the Homeschool Legal Defense Association to find out. They help homeschool parents who are needing legal advise. Many homeschool parents choose not to vaccinate, and I think this association would have some information on the matter you are speaking of.

If this organization can't help, try blogging on some homeschool and natural health sites. I am sure there are parents who have already fought the courts on this issue, who could direct you.
Click to expand...

HSLDA will not help her because she was not homeschooling.

Edited to add:

Oh, I get it now. I misunderstood what you were trying to say. I thought you were under the assumption that she was homeschooling so you thought HSLDA might represent her in court, but now I think you were just saying to call up and get some info on how she can fight this without them actually representing her. They might do that.
 
Last edited:
The state has clearly violated the law here in taking away this child. The statute says,

h ttp://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c100-199/1670000181.htm

2. It is unlawful for any student to attend school unless he has been immunized as required under the rules and regulations of the department of health and senior services, and can provide satisfactory evidence of such immunization; except that if he produces satisfactory evidence of having begun the process of immunization, he may continue to attend school as long as the immunization process is being accomplished in the prescribed manner. It is unlawful for any parent or guardian to refuse or neglect to have his child immunized as required by this section, unless the child is properly exempted.
Click to expand...

AND

3. This section shall not apply to any child if one parent or guardian objects in writing to his school administrator against the immunization of the child, because of religious beliefs or medical contraindications. In cases where any such objection is for reasons of medical contraindications, a statement from a duly licensed physician must also be provided to the school administrator.
Click to expand...

The OP met the requirements of the law. Nowhere in the statute does it say that you must belong to a certain religious denomination in order to claim the religious exemption. Therefore, it can be your own personal religious belief.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top