I guess Jimmy Carter is "anti-semitic" now

Status
Not open for further replies.
The groups that at the time made up the ~90% that didn't want Israel.

Look, I am having a pointless discussion with an intellectually-dishonest person about a land I'll never visit while my pizza is getting cold. I'm outta here...
 
The groups that at the time made up the ~90% that didn't want Israel.

Look, I am having a pointless discussion with an intellectually-dishonest person about a land I'll never visit while my pizza is getting cold. I'm outta here...

Intellectually dishonest because I don't agree with you. Amazing. Your absence here will be surely missed.
 
Benny45, have you ever read any of Fritz Berg's work? He has a degree in mining engineering and in the 1970s he worked as a mechanical engineer designing poultry processing plants and slaughterhouses (where he worked on the the Final Solution to the chicken problem). Around 1979 he was turned on to (another engineer and professor) Arthur Butz's book The Hoax of the Twentieth Century and since 1980 he has been debunking the holocaust myth wholesale. I suggest you read some of his arguments instead of just the "survivor" stories. I read both the revisionist arguments and the exterminationist arguments--do you?

"There were no weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in Iraq prior to the recent war–and, no Jews or gentiles were killed in gas chambers or gas vans by the Nazis. The “intelligence experts” and “scholars” were wrong. Whatever crimes the Nazis and Hitler did commit, they did not include gassings of Jews or anyone else. Historians have blindly accepted the wildest, pseudo-scientific nonsense imaginable.

Hitler had superb gas chambers–but they were used ONLY to keep people alive. Those gas chambers were used in strategic locations throughout eastern Europe to fumigate entire railroad trains with cyanide gas from Zyklon-B. Other superb gaschambers were used in POW camps and concentration camps, including Auschwitz, to fumigate everything from clothing to furniture with cyanide gas from Zyklon-B. Those superb gas chambers certainly could have been used for mass murder as well. The great irony is that none of those real gas chambers have ever been implicated in any of the holocaust gassing claims. Instead, the Nazis supposedly used diesel exhaust and Zyklon-B–but, here is where it gets really crazy, the Zyklon-B was simply dumped, supposedly, through small holes in the roofs of cellars–without the warmed, forced air and circulation that was routinely used in all of Germany's most highly-advanced gas chambers. See my essay.

There is not even a valid theory as to how the alleged homicidal, mass gassings could have happened. All of the alleged gassing methods are so technically absurd that they cannot withstand any serious scientific investigation – no doubt, that is precisely why the official defenders of the holocaust hoax must imprison critics instead whenever possible as in Germany, France, Austria and elsewhere. The defenders of the so-called “holocaust” are ruthless, shameless bigots."

And that's just one of his introductory paragraphs. Read some of his essays at nazigassings.com and learn some real facts, folks.
 
Benny45, have you ever read any of Fritz Berg's work? He has a degree in mining engineering and in the 1970s he worked as a mechanical engineer designing poultry processing plants and slaughterhouses (where he worked on the the Final Solution to the chicken problem). Around 1979 he was turned on to (another engineer and professor) Arthur Butz's book The Hoax of the Twentieth Century and since 1980 he has been debunking the holocaust myth wholesale. I suggest you read some of his arguments instead of just the "survivor" stories. I read both the revisionist arguments and the exterminationist arguments--do you?

"There were no weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in Iraq prior to the recent war–and, no Jews or gentiles were killed in gas chambers or gas vans by the Nazis. The “intelligence experts” and “scholars” were wrong. Whatever crimes the Nazis and Hitler did commit, they did not include gassings of Jews or anyone else. Historians have blindly accepted the wildest, pseudo-scientific nonsense imaginable.

Hitler had superb gas chambers–but they were used ONLY to keep people alive. Those gas chambers were used in strategic locations throughout eastern Europe to fumigate entire railroad trains with cyanide gas from Zyklon-B. Other superb gaschambers were used in POW camps and concentration camps, including Auschwitz, to fumigate everything from clothing to furniture with cyanide gas from Zyklon-B. Those superb gas chambers certainly could have been used for mass murder as well. The great irony is that none of those real gas chambers have ever been implicated in any of the holocaust gassing claims. Instead, the Nazis supposedly used diesel exhaust and Zyklon-B–but, here is where it gets really crazy, the Zyklon-B was simply dumped, supposedly, through small holes in the roofs of cellars–without the warmed, forced air and circulation that was routinely used in all of Germany's most highly-advanced gas chambers. See my essay.

There is not even a valid theory as to how the alleged homicidal, mass gassings could have happened. All of the alleged gassing methods are so technically absurd that they cannot withstand any serious scientific investigation – no doubt, that is precisely why the official defenders of the holocaust hoax must imprison critics instead whenever possible as in Germany, France, Austria and elsewhere. The defenders of the so-called “holocaust” are ruthless, shameless bigots."

And that's just one of his introductory paragraphs. Read some of his essays at nazigassings.com and learn some real facts, folks.


fuck off, go back to stormfront
 
In the book for which Elie Wiesel is most famous, namely “Night,"[5] which is recommended reading in public schools across this country, Wiesel paints an horrendous picture of life in Auschwitz from April 1944 to January 1945 when he was there. Although many hundreds of thousands of Jews were supposedly gassed there during this time, Wiesel makes no mention of gassings or gas chambers anywhere in his book, as Jürgen Graf and Robert Faurisson have pointed out to us.[6] He does however claim to have seen flames from the chimneys and Dr. Mengele wearing a monocle. Both claims are clearly lies.

When the Russians were about to overrun Auschwitz in January 1945, both Elie and his father “chose” to go west with the retreating ‘Nazis’ and SS rather than be “liberated” by America's greatest ally. They could have told the whole world about Auschwitz within days–but, both Elie and his father as well as countless thousands of other Jews chose instead to trek west with the ‘Nazis’ on foot at night in the middle of one of the coldest winters and continue working for the defense of the Reich thereafter. In effect, they chose to collaborate.

Some of Wiesel's exact words in “Night” are:[7]

"The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him [the father] entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. ‘Well, what shall we do, father?’ He was silent. ‘Let's be evacuated with the others,’ I told him.”

Elie's tale in this regard is corroborated by other “survivor” accounts including that of Primo Levi. In Levi's book Survival in Auschwitz, we have his words for January 17th, 1945:

"It was not a question of reasoning: I would probably also have followed the instinct of the flock if I had not felt so weak: fear is supremely contagious, and its immediate reaction is to make one try to run away.”

But he's talking here about running away with the ‘Nazis'–and not ‘Nazis’ who were mere rank and file party members but supposedly the worst of the worst. He's talking here about running away with the same ‘Nazis’ and SS who had supposedly carried out the greatest imaginable mass murders of Jews and others in the entire history of the universe. He's talking about running away with the people who supposedly did the actual killings of thousands daily for several years. But, according to his own words he would probably have gone with them nonetheless, except that he was not feeling good that day; he was feeling weak. The “fear” that he overcame was clearly fear of the Russians and not the ‘Nazis;’ there is no mention of fear of what the ‘Nazis’ and SS might do when the evacuees entered the forest or sometime later.

The choices that were made here in January 1945 are enormously important. In the entire history of Jewish suffering at the hands of gentiles what moment in time could possibly be more dramatic than this precious moment when Jews could choose between, on the one hand, liberation by the Soviets with the chances to tell the whole world about the evil ‘Nazis’ and to help bring about their defeat–and the other choice of going with the ‘Nazi’ mass murderers and to continue working for them and to help preserve their evil regime. In the vast majority of cases, they chose to go with the ‘Nazis'.

The momentous choice brings Shakespeare's Hamlet to mind:

"To remain, or not to remain; that is the question:” to remain and be liberated by Soviet troops and risk their slings and rifles in order to tell the whole world about the outrageous ‘Nazis'–or, take arms and feet against a sea of cold and darkness in order to collaborate with the very same outrageous ‘Nazis'. Oh what heartache–ay there's the rub! Thus conscience does make cowards of us all.

So what was the final score–here a drum roll seems fitting in the background as Vanna White comes onto the stage with the sealed envelope and the answer to the great riddle. The envelope is torn open and the choice is–drum roll again–according to Levi himself 800 choose to remain in Auschwitz, but 20,000 choose to go and collaborate with the ‘Nazi’ mass murderers. Wow! Such a surprise–already!

We see the same deliberate pro-'Nazi’ collaboration in the “survivors” from Schindler's List. In their well-known story, as the Russians were about to overrun Plaszow just thirty miles down the road to the east from Auschwitz in November 1944, Schindler and more than a thousand Jews chose to go west with the retreating ‘Nazis’ rather than hang back and be “liberated” by the Soviets. Some even spent the next several weeks at Auschwitz–and none were gassed, not even in the movie. The hoax has certainly had its day. If there had been any kind of extermination of Jews at all Auschwitz, all of the Jews in Cracow and Plaszow would have known about it as well. All of the Jews who went west in effect also denied the Holocaust albeit only with their hands and feet. The Jews themselves were the first true Holocaust deniers, and it is about time they get all the credit they deserve.

The rather simple analysis of Holocaust survivor tales I have given here is an easy to understand refutation of the hoax in general. I urge all readers to reexamine the survivor accounts for themselves but critically and systematically. The internet with search engines like Google allows anyone to analyze literally thousands of survivor accounts in seconds for major flaws of the type I have discussed. Just search for keywords like “evacuation” or combinations of words like “holocaust survivor Auschwitz.”

One last piece of literature for this discussion is the highly acclaimed book Sophie's Choice by William Styron. What does Styron have to say about Sophie or any other Auschwitz survivor going west in January 1945? The book is a novel, but it is an historical novel by a great writer and intellect–or so we are told–and where we might find an explanation or insight for Elie's kind of choice. But there is really nothing there. The important choice Sophie made in the book was between her two children; which one should be killed in the gas chamber and which one should live? Certainly that would have been a heart-wrenching choice and worthy of a great novel–but as to the later choice to go west with the ‘Nazi’ mass murderers, even the murderers of one of those same precious children, there was nothing except for the following:

"The Russians were coming and the SS wanted the children destroyed. Most of them were Polish; the Jewish children were already dead. They thought of burning them alive in a pit, or shooting them, but they decided to do something that wouldn't show too many marks and evidence. So in the freezing cold they marched the children down to the river and made them take off their clothes and soak them in the water as if they were washing them, and then made them put on these wet clothes again. Then they marched them back to the area in front of the barracks where they had been living and had a roll call. Standing in their wet clothes. The roll call lasted for many, many hours while the children stood wet and freezing and night came. All of the children died of being exposed that day. They died of exposure and pneumonia, very fast.”

If anything like that had actually happened, it would have been all the more reason to stay in Auschwitz and wait for the Soviets to arrive rather than go west with the ‘Nazis’ and the SS. I dare say there is absolutely no serious corroboration of Styron's tale of the freezing children. Although Styron does not tell us, Sophie apparently chose to trek west with the Nazi murderers as well.

www.nazigassings.com
 
benny45 said:
I guess the Russian government should be tried for their vast crimes in Chechyna.
I guess the Chinese government should be tried for their vast crimes in Tibet
I guess the North Korean government should be tried for its crimes against its own population
You can probably add most of the governments in Africa to the list.

etc, etc, etc...............................

Well the case in Chechyna isn't clear-cut to me, but yes what you listed is a good start, Britain and America have committed many war crimes too, but the only people being tried for war crimes are Yugoslavians who were defeated a decade ago.

You actually believe Ahmadinejad didnt mean he wants to see Israel wiped off the map? My goodness.

Did you read what this madman said today? He doubts the 3000 deaths in NY on 911 because the names of the victims have never been made public. I guess the fact that they are read aloud on the anniversary each year has gone unnoticed to this wacko.

Hey I just tried to deride an anti-semite and you still have a go at me, come on, man :p

Ahmadinejad isn't a blood-sucking vampire with a thirst for Jewish blood or anything, he hates Zionism as do I, it has nothing to do with Judaism. There was a controversy obviously when some journalists reported a translation of Ahmadinejad that stated he said he wanted to "wipe Israel off the map", but there is no idiom in Persian to even express this, what he actually said was he wanted to "eliminate the Zionist regime" or something similar, which as I said does not require violence. To repeat myself, I do not think the man is mad or an anti-semite.

Your second point - I actually read about him saying that a few days ago at least, take this comparison to heart please - As you may very well be cautious to trust Ahmadinejad and what he says, you can recognise why he may very well be skeptical of what America says, and with good reason - America has clearly shown its intent to make Iran conform with what America wants.

I also read that Ahmadinejad is skeptical of the Holocaust official story, as with the 9/11 thing this is something I disagree with upon with him, but I understand fully why he is skeptical, he has good reason to doubt what America says, hells sake everyone knows not to trust politicians in America and Britain.

But, I wouldn't write him off as a whacko, I wasn't in Auschwitz in the 1940s and I wasn't in New York in September 2001, and my Agnostic beliefs lead me to be open-minded about what really happened, as I may never really know what actually happened. I'm just trying to be reasonable and level-headed here.
 
I'm not going to touch any holocaust-denial claims without a 10-foot-pole. (And if I had a 10-foot-tall Pole, I'd send him to Iraq.) But it is true that history is written by the victors, and Stalin, who gained control of a huge chunk of Eastern Europe where most of the atrocities were carried out, was very much interested in making the Germans look as barbaric as possible, while minimizing the crimes committed by the Soviets and the other allies.

Millions of Jews did die, but by rational estimates less than 5-6 million, and most died from horrible living conditions rather than murdered deliberately. And not all efforts were centrally controlled - there were Pogroms in Poland after WW2 as well. And Hitler very much wanted to get rid of his "fifth column" in the most profitable way possible, but none of the influential Western Jews, who had a lot to gain from Zionism, wanted to play ball. "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews of Europe", the popular saying went. And what Americans did to the Japanese citizens wasn't that much different, the difference was that America wasn't destabilized country losing a war and being ravaged by hunger, lack of fuel, and contagious diseases.

But none of this should take away from the fact that Jews had the highest mortality rates, at least in Poland and other occupied-and-liberated lands of Eastern Europe. Numbers are very uneven: 160,000 of 7+ million German dead were Jews, 1 mil of 23 mil dead Soviets, 67,000 of 1+ mil dead in Yugoslavia, etc. My own grandfather, a Jew, is counted among those numbers, but he died as a volunteer fighting for the Soviets... I guess Steven Spielberg just forgot to make a movie about the 22 Soviet citizens of other ethnicities who died fighting next to him...
 
Well the case in Chechyna isn't clear-cut to me

Russian soldiers raped, plundered, and killed their way right through Chechyna. Thousands are missing to this day.

I actually read about him saying that a few days ago at least, take this comparison to heart please - As you may very well be cautious to trust Ahmadinejad and what he says, you can recognise why he may very well be skeptical of what America says

Nope, I'm not taking his comparison to heart. I can only imagine the additional pain that comments like his bring to the poor families that lost loved ones that day. The names have been well documeted for years. He is either a liar or inept. Either is scary for a man that runs a country.

I understand fully why he is skeptical, he has good reason to doubt what America says, hells sake everyone knows not to trust politicians in America and Britain.

Oh please. Lets not use the whole "I dont trust America" excuse when trying to explain away one of the most evil (and by the way, well documented) events that have ever happened. No amount of proof will ever be enough for these crazies.

Hey I just tried to deride an anti-semite and you still have a go at me, come on, man

I will bring up your name in a positive way tonight at my zionist world domination meeting, which is held in the back room at my local starbucks.
 
Millions of Jews did die, but by rational estimates less than 5-6 million, and most died from horrible living conditions rather than murdered deliberately.

Hah, whose rational estimates are you using?

If by "horrible living conditions" you mean gas chambers and firing squads, then we totally agree.

I'm not going to debate the holocaust with a bunch of deniers. There is so much evidence out there that I have no interest in dealing with the crazies here.

Its very sad to me that Ron Pauls message has been hi-jacked by 9/11 truthers, Anti-Semitics, Holocaust deniers, and plain old America haters.


Its no-wonder he lost big.
 
Benny, you are clearly here by mistake. Go suck on McCain's teat. Freedom isn't for people like you.
 
Don't strawman your way out of this.

Russian soldiers raped, plundered, and killed their way right through Chechyna. Thousands are missing to this day.

Yes, and wrongly so, the military should never be used against the public, but Chechyna isn't innocent - though their citizens are.


Benny45 said:
Nope, I'm not taking his comparison to heart. I can only imagine the additional pain that comments like his bring to the poor families that lost loved ones that day. The names have been well documeted for years. He is either a liar or inept. Either is scary for a man that runs a country.

First sentence - it's my comparison, not his, incase that isn't a typo. Liar or inept or mistaken or skeptical, at least, you can't just decide he falls into either of 2 bad catergories because you don't like him. I still stand by what I said about him having just reason to be sketpical, this doesn't justify anything he might say or do, but it does justify his skepticism. Which leads onto the next titbit below -


Benny45 said:
]Oh please. Lets not use the whole "I dont trust America" excuse when trying to explain away one of the most evil (and by the way, well documented) events that have ever happened. No amount of proof will ever be enough for these crazies.

I also stand by what I said here, and you have taken what I said grossly out of context here. What I did say was that in the position of someone in a country that has been screwed over several times by Britain and USA, I would be skeptical of what they told me. I also said that we all know that politicians in America and Britain are untrustworthy, something which is also very well documented. :p

I agree with your last point, there are people who aren't open-minded indeed, but I think you may find a way to disagree with me even when I'm agreeing with you. :p



Benny45 said:
I will bring up your name in a positive way tonight at my zionist world domination meeting, which is held in the back room at my local starbucks.

Appreciated.
 
Last edited:
Benny, you are clearly here by mistake. Go suck on McCain's teat. Freedom isn't for people like you.

Why? Im a big RP supporter. I voted for him and donated to him. I guess because Im not a holocaust or 911 denier then I dont belong here.

Hey, you know who else isnt ................................Ron Paul!!!!!


Alex, you should ask yourself, what are you doing here?
 
What I did say was that in the position of someone in a country that has been screwed over several times by Britain and USA, I would be skeptical of what they told me. I also said that we all know that politicians in America and Britain are untrustworthy, something which is also very well documented. :p

The problem with your theory is that most of the evidence has come from non-Americans. As as already stated, the six million comes from the architect of the holocaust himself. I'm not going to debate the holocaust here anymore. Its pointless.
 
What I said in that quote isn't exclusive to one event, I was talking about why Ahmadinejad should be skeptical of everything he's told from America.

The problem with your theory is that most of the evidence has come from non-Americans. As as already stated, the six million comes from the architect of the holocaust himself. I'm not going to debate the holocaust here anymore. Its pointless.

I only gave my own opinion on the holocaust once

Zolah said:
I also read that Ahmadinejad is skeptical of the Holocaust official story, as with the 9/11 thing this is something I disagree with upon with him, but I understand fully why he is skeptical

But I agree with you that it is pointless to argue about the holocaust.
 
Last edited:
I can make the case that Bin Laden is responsible for 9/11.

I have no disagreement with the rest of your post. The Jewish lobby is strong.

Do you think it is ok for another country to give our politicians money to perform special favors for them, at taxpayer expense?
 
Do you think it is ok for another country to give our politicians money to perform special favors for them, at taxpayer expense?

You singling out Israel for some reason?

By the way, AIPAC is a American committee, not Israeli. What does this have to do with the topic?
 
Last edited:
You singling out Israel for some reason?

By the way, AIPAC is a American committee, not Israeli. What does this have to do with the topic?

Israel is singled out because they are far and away more powerful than any other lobbying group.

They may be an American committee, but most board members have dual citizenship.

You don't actually think it's called the American-Israeli Political Action Committee for no reason do you? Their loyalties lie with Israel.


The Holocaust deniers etc. can suck it. I don't need to make up lies to point out how screwed up our situation with Israel is.
 
But why are they loyal to Israel? They act like traitors.

There are also Muslim lobbys, African lobbys,....etc. You questioning their loyalty? I'm pro-Israel, are you questioning my loyalty to my country? I (like my father and brother) have served in our armed forces, I pay my taxes, and have always voted.


Again, what does this have to do with the topic?
 
Last edited:
There are also Muslim lobbys, African lobbys,....etc. You questioning their loyalty? I'm pro-Israel, are you questioning my loyalty to my country? I (like my father and brother) have served in our armed forces, I pay my taxes, and have always voted.


Again, what does this have to do with the topic?

Why don't they move there if they're pro-Israel? There is no need for ANY lobbyists. Everyone should have the same exact rights as everyone else. No more, no less. No legislation of virtue.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top