I am convinced that people who hate the official campaign do so out of ignorance of it.

So, I think the bulk of you should head over to the "NEW national poll" thread.

Seems we are struggling mightily in all of the areas I predicted, that could have been addressed in the ways I've stated.

How much more poorly do we have to perform for you guys to realize what's going on here?
 
PaulConventionWV said:
I am convinced that people who hate the official campaign do so out of ignorance of it..
Click to expand...


Great topic for discussion. Just out of curiosity, could you please list all the members and corresponding positions of the official campaign? I want to ensure that we are all on the same page. It seems inappropriate to discuss something involving individuals without first identifying the individuals. I am personally admitting that I have ignorance of all of the members and positions of the official campaign. However, I do not hate the official campaign.
 
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rockandrollsouls said:
If you had some merit I might take you seriously. Not only do you lack it, the fact you're likely subsidizing your education with government money makes you a hypocrite as well.
Click to expand...

I'm not a hypocrite because it was my money in the first place. Beside, I don't believe in violating your basic needs on "principle." It's too bad that we have to decide whose money to take, but as long as we have this system, there is no shame in acting in your own self-interest. Did I mention that my family is poor and I wouldn't be able to afford going to college? Moreover, if I wasn't an athlete, I wouldn't be getting this stuff.

Please, stop acting like you know me. You're a hypocrite because you are using collectivist thought to accuse me of being a hypocrite. I'm dirt poor, and my athletic talent is all that's allowing me to go to a good school. Your accusations are ridiculous because you assume you know everything already. Last time I checked, anyhow, we were polling pretty well. You can't place every little thing on the campaign, such as the beliefs of the entire facking party. No campaign can change that. Do you remember where we were polling in 2007? I suggest you step off because it is likely I have done more than you to help Ron Paul get elected. It's not my fault that I'm forced to act for my own self-interest and survival in this system, but that's the way it is.
 
pacelli said:
Great topic for discussion. Just out of curiosity, could you please list all the members and corresponding positions of the official campaign? I want to ensure that we are all on the same page. It seems inappropriate to discuss something involving individuals without first identifying the individuals. I am personally admitting that I have ignorance of all of the members and positions of the official campaign. However, I do not hate the official campaign.
Click to expand...

How about no? I don't have to name names, and I intentionally did not do so. I'm not accusing anyone of anything. I'm encouraging more unity and not trying to be divisive. It's common knowledge that many people are openly hostile toward the campaign, so I was addressing that general sentiment and encouraging proactivity instead of hostility.
 
Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others....

PaulConventionWV said:
I'm not a hypocrite because it was my money in the first place. Beside, I don't believe in violating your basic needs on "principle." It's too bad that we have to decide whose money to take, but as long as we have this system, there is no shame in acting in your own self-interest. Did I mention that my family is poor and I wouldn't be able to afford going to college? Moreover, if I wasn't an athlete, I wouldn't be getting this stuff.

Please, stop acting like you know me. You're a hypocrite because you are using collectivist thought to accuse me of being a hypocrite. I'm dirt poor, and my athletic talent is all that's allowing me to go to a good school. Your accusations are ridiculous because you assume you know everything already. Last time I checked, anyhow, we were polling pretty well. You can't place every little thing on the campaign, such as the beliefs of the entire facking party. No campaign can change that. Do you remember where we were polling in 2007? I suggest you step off because it is likely I have done more than you to help Ron Paul get elected. It's not my fault that I'm forced to act for my own self-interest and survival in this system, but that's the way it is.
Click to expand...
 
I am also convinced people in general are too lazy to gather all the facts and make decisions on their own when it comes to Ron Paul. Everything I hear and read are untruths or talking points from the establishment media pundits. These people deserve another four years of whatever flavor of big government they get.
 
rockandrollsouls said:
Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others....
Click to expand...

Do you pay taxes? You know you're condoning theft. My dad was a tax fraud once, and guess what good it did society? You guessed it. There's no practicality to upholding a "principle" and allowing yourself to be defeated. I don't even see how this is debatable.
 
You enjoy digging yourself deeper holes, don't you?

PaulConventionWV said:
Do you pay taxes? You know you're condoning theft. My dad was a tax fraud once, and guess what good it did society? You guessed it. There's no practicality to upholding a "principle" and allowing yourself to be defeated. I don't even see how this is debatable.
Click to expand...
 
rockandrollsouls said:
Didn't you jump ship and vote for Obama in 08? If Ron had a PR specialist maybe that wouldn't have happened :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

No, I voted for Ron Paul in the Texas Republican Primary.

I was also a delegate for Ron Paul in the Republican Party at the local and regional levels.

However, Ron Paul ended his campaign long before the general election, so faced with three bad choices on the ballot, John McCain (neocon warmongering jackass)/Palin (neocon warmonger race-baiter and a complete idiot as well), Obama/Biden (typical Dem. offering), and the worst Libertarian ticket (neocon Bob Barr and neocon warmongering Huckster Wayne Allen Root) in history, I publicly proclaimed that I had cast a meaningless (because of the electoral college- if you don't understand how that works, I'll educate you) "FUCK YOU John McCain/Sarah Palin/GOP/LP/Bob Barr" vote.

We don't do ourselves any good supporting ridiculously bad Republican (or Libertarian) offerings that have no chance to win- it's better, in my opinion, to send them a "screw you" by not voting for them.

I'd do it again, too, given the same steaming pile of shit choices.

Now, getting back on the topic at hand:

I will reiterate: the official campaign AND the grass roots do a lot of stupid things. When we see them do so, they should be corrected. However, we have made HUGE PROGRESS in the last 4+ years- Ron is no longer an unknown fringe candidate registering at "*%", Rand got elected to the Senate, both get major air time on a regular basis.

Some of you are like little children. You have no patience and no discipline and want everything all at once. You think that if we don't "win now and get everything we want" then everyone in the campaign is either incompetent or a traitor.

Sorry, kids, that ain't the way it works in the real world. Change takes time.

I'd love to see Ron get the nomination and win the Presidency, but if he doesn't, I'm not going to take my toys, go home, and throw a fit.

As long as we make progress, I'm going to keep plugging away- in 2012, in 2016, in 2020- as long as it takes.

And if I have time, I'll toss you snivelers a tissue so you can wipe your noses.
 
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libertarian4321 said:
No, I voted for Ron Paul in the Texas Republican Primary.

I was also a delegate for Ron Paul in the Republican Party at the local and regional levels.

However, Ron Paul ended his campaign long before the general election, so faced with three bad choices on the ballot, John McCain (neocon warmongering jackass)/Palin (neocon warmonger race-baiter and a complete idiot as well), Obama/Biden (typical Dem. offering), and the worst Libertarian ticket (neocon Bob Barr and neocon warmongering Huckster Wayne Allen Root) in history, I publicly proclaimed that I had cast a meaningless (because of the electoral college- if you don't understand how that works, I'll educate you) "FUCK YOU John McCain/Sarah Palin/GOP/LP/Bob Barr" vote.
Click to expand...

In other words, yes, you voted for Obama.
 
libertarian4321 said:
Sorry, kids, that ain't the way it works in the real world. Change takes time.
Click to expand...

It's not that I completely disagree with what you are saying but I find some of the things you state so off the wall...

The real world works like this:

If you sell something you stay in business. If you do not sell something you do not stay in business. There are no lenders of last resort printing currency out of thin air for your failure to sell in the real world based on the excuse selling takes time...
 
LibertyEagle said:
In other words, yes, you voted for Obama.
Click to expand...

That wasn't the issue.

He said I "jumped ship."

Since Ron Paul had lost the primary, had ended his campaign, had refused to run as an independent, and was not on the ballot, there was no "ship" to jump from.

Unlike some of you, I will not vote for awful Republicans just because they are (in your minds) somewhat "less evil" than the Dems.

As long as we continue to support bad Republicans (or, in the case of Barr/Root, bad Libertarians), we only encourage them to continue running twits like McCain/Palin/Barr/Root.
 
Did it ever occur to you to not vote therefore depriving Obama of "the big electoral mandate" that was used extensively to ram his agenda down our throat? Not voting for the a hole republican is a big enough "F you" to get the point across too the republicans. Giving Obama a larger electoral mandate was a big "F you" to all of us.

libertarian4321 said:
That wasn't the issue.

He said I "jumped ship."

Since Ron Paul had lost the primary, had ended his campaign, had refused to run as an independent, and was not on the ballot, there was no "ship" to jump from.

Unlike some of you, I will not vote for awful Republicans just because they are (in your minds) somewhat "less evil" than the Dems.

As long as we continue to support bad Republicans (or, in the case of Barr/Root, bad Libertarians), we only encourage them to continue running twits like McCain/Palin/Barr/Root.
Click to expand...
 
klamath said:
Did it ever occur to you to not vote therefore depriving Obama of "the big electoral mandate" that was used extensively to ram his agenda down our throat? Not voting for the a hole republican is a big enough "F you" to get the point across too the republicans. Giving Obama a larger electoral mandate was a big "F you" to all of us.
Click to expand...

It was a tough decision. Never have I gone to the voting booth with such a wretched set of options. Normally, even when both major parties offer dismal candidates (which is pretty common lately), I could at least vote for a decent, but obscure, Libertarian (thank God for Harry Browne and Badnarik!).

I considered not voting at all- but I really have a hard time leaving a ballot blank (maybe I'm obsessive-compulsive on this?), but I think that what really drove me over the edge was all the crap the Republicans (with Palin leading the way) were spreading about Obama being a "terrorist" or "secret Muslim" or not being American. That was so vile that I actually considered the Dems the "lesser evil."

Anyway, lets hope that doesn't happen again. Lets get Ron Paul on the ballot!

Going to spend this morning putting out some signs (still got some "Hope for America" signs and bumper stickers from last time- since they don't say "Ron Paul for President 2008", I'm recycling them!)

<note to the Libertarian Party: Please don't nominate a pair of neocon warmongering d-bags this time- I need a back up plan, just in case :) >
 
My point was, based on your choice, I think you're the the last person to be be preaching here, "libertarian"4321. ;)

Same choice.... to put someone starting two new wars in office. :rolleyes:
 
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