I am convinced that people who hate the official campaign do so out of ignorance of it.

You are coming off as a total IDIOT IMHO. The current campaign is looking just like 07/08.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but it seems, like your assumption of the ineptness of the campaign, that your idiot claim is speculation based on an emotional response. I don't get why you insist on spreading such hatred. Idiots spread propaganda and promote self-interest while covering their asses and bashing on others for disagreeing. I did none of that.
 
The fact that Jesse Benton seems to be all over this campaign gives me great pause.
 
I think the grassroots needs to draft an official letter to the campaign with a series of suggestions that people can sign or bump the thread to show support of...the campaign cannot know everything that is going on so they need the grassroots to provide them with valuable information.

My hope is that the C4L was successful in training "state coordinators" over the last 2 years that are now sprung into action, like "freedom cells" that get the call from the campaign and immediate act like mini seal units...you get my point, all the work should been done years in advance behind the sense, my sense is that some of that was going on.
 
You are coming off as a total IDIOT IMHO. The current campaign is looking just like 07/08.

This is completely unnecessary, and very unbecoming of a RP supporter. I wish I knew how to neg rep someone, because this post surely deserves it.
 
I'm sorry you feel that way, but it seems, like your assumption of the ineptness of the campaign, that your idiot claim is speculation based on an emotional response. I don't get why you insist on spreading such hatred. Idiots spread propaganda and promote self-interest while covering their asses and bashing on others for disagreeing. I did none of that.

The main problem with the campaign last time around was that many of these people had no political connections. They had been in the political wastelands of libertarian politics with a few notable exceptions Goldwater being one of them. Fein is another who worked in Regan's admin. But again generally speaking of the people, they were moving into the big time of politics, like the hillbillies goes to Hollywood or something...not their fault, it was what it was...
 
Last edited:
If the only mechanic you can go to only seems to have experience damaging engines you'd rather try to (figure out how to) fix the car on your own. PaulConventionWV, I've seen you defend the campaign a few times (including here) but not their action/inaction. If people are truly speaking out of ignorance, you should be able to show them/us that.

This assumes that you would know what constitutes damage. Trying to tell a mechanic that he's doing something bad for an engine when he knows exactly what he's doing is not a good way to solve the problem. Of course, every analogy has its problems, but from a philosophical viewpoint, I think people are simply trying to take a stance on this issue of central planning vs. grassroots. All it takes it some rumors and some people will say "how horrible!" without really knowing why what they were hearing was bad.

I also don't understand why ignorance should be so obvious to point out. Whenever I tell someone they're being ignorant, they think they are being wise and that is that. No amount of logic will convince them. I'm not saying these people are inherently illogical, but sometimes they let knee-jerk reactions replace patience and proactiveness. I'm not so much defending the campaign as I am promoting proactiveness. Even if there are a few slip-ups, that is no reason to freak out and assume that the grassroots should just charge blindly in all directions. Your libertarian grassroots dream is not going to work in practice. It will in government, but not applied to everything. One example I can use is that a family does not need to follow libertarian principles. If they choose to deprive their children of something they think is not necessary or not good for them to have, that is their right, and the government should recognize that. The family is under no obligation to treat the child as a sovereign individual. That was not really an analogy so much as an example of a situation where libertarianism rightfully does not apply.

Steve posting here has been a big improvement and just having an Iowa office and all the visits by RP to Iowa this early in the cycle are again big improvements (but these weren't possible with the fundraising last time). I hope when important issues come up here, the appropriate campaign person can be addressed to quickly comment (without being email bombed). I say trust, stop being antagonistic towards the campaign (it lowers morale), but nonetheless don't depend on the campaign staff. If Ron wins, it'll either primarily due to the grassroots or the media (doubt it, they've always been the enemy); it won't be because of the campaign staff.

I agree with everything up to the last sentence. I don't see why you jump to the conclusion that the campaign will not have a major hand in winning this election. They can and should be trusted, and they can't operate well unless people do trust them. Otherwise, their difficulty dealing with unbridled opposition from the grassroots is seen as the fault of the campaign. They can only operate effectively if people are willing to cooperate, but so many jump the gun and assume a few problems mean we should run the show and only make things more difficult for the campaign. I like cooperation, both ways, but I don't support those who would blindly charge ahead and run away from the campaign will insisting they should take the lead.

At any rate, my post was not to criticize anyone for their stupidity. I do appreciate the input of everyone here, despite those who STILL insist on attacking me because of my position (if that's not a knee-jerk reaction, I don't know what is), but my main point is that people should seek to be proactive and remain positive, not cast a negative light on the campaign and break away from it. That can only make things worse. However, some people seem insistent on "doing their own thing" despite the campaigns attempts to "lead." Really, I just wish people would stop fighting over it and appreciate the campaign because they ARE ON OUR SIDE. This unfounded suspicion is what hurts us.
 
This is completely unnecessary, and very unbecoming of a RP supporter. I wish I knew how to neg rep someone, because this post surely deserves it.

It's easy. Click on the rep button (the little star badge at the bottom of the post) and select "disapprove". You're welcome.
 
They also have their experiences of 2008, where the official campaign and the grassroots were nearly openly hostile to each other.

This time, the campaign is on top of it. In 2008, the money came in so late, and there were problems.

I would say that if grassroots doesn't like official campaign, they should work on those areas that campaigns typically don't do.
But I've seen only good things out of the official campaign.
 
The money did not come in late. We had steady money flowing in throughout the quarters. Yes, we got a little more momentum after the big moneybombs, but they had millions of dollars before that. They had plenty of money to run a professional campaign.
 
I think we have trashed the 08 campaign enough...if they haven't learned from their mistakes or the campaign hasn't gotten rid of the incompetence by now, then well, you got to make do with what you have...

I think there should be a separate sub-forums for RANTS or campaign problems..keep them out of general forums and discussions...moderators should move these types of conversations there...get them out of the main loop.
 
Last edited:
"He who knows nothing is closer to the truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors." - Thomas Jefferson
 
I'm generally supportive of the campaign but I am highly critical of the campaign's decision regarding their website. It lacks a lot of information, and it doesn't invite people who stumble upon it to learn more about Ron Paul. The Events section, which I think is very important, is basically a blank calendar. Does he not want other candidates to know where he's going? He's attending the Faith and Freedom Conference on 6/3, yet no one would know by looking at this calendar. I think updating the website is a problem that's easy to fix and can pay off significantly.

I've heard Ron tell an interviewer that people can go to ronpaul2012.com to get more information but that's just not the place to go for quality information.

You dare criticize the official campaign? How dare you? Don't you know missing dates and incompetent people are all a part of a bigger plan?
 
A lot of the supporters are so mistrustful of politics the all good or all bad reactions are par for the course. If anyone reading this finds themselves with an unjustified reactionary hatred of the campaign... or hatred of those running it you need to take a hard look at why that is. Fortunately Ron Paul is just the guy. Someone to trust with 30 years of consistency. It will take some practice but It would help the campaign if they could be mindful and keep a distance when they are flying off the handle.
 
Wasn't Benton an most of the staff untrained in political arena? I think this is most akin to your scenario of "Someone with a liberal arts degree fixing an engine."



It's like someone who argues with a mechanic about how to fix an engine when they come from a liberal arts college. All the peace, joy, and happiness won't fix an engine, nor will it allow a campaign to run smoothely.

The objections seem to be based on knee-jerk reactions to specific actions based on an emotional response. People want to help, and they feel the campaign is getting in the way of that. However, they refuse to acknowledge that they don't know how to run a campaign, and that the campaign may be justified in their actions despite the loudest protests.

This post wasn't meant to single anyone out or bash any supporters. I would rather everyone try to get along, but I see people's ignorance and libertarian principles getting in the way of their realization of how a finely-tuned machine should work. Libertarian principles do not apply there. This has me a bit down, but I will fight for RP nonetheless, and it will not hinder my admiration for even those who are ignorant of the campaign because we are all here for the same reason, although we may disagree on how to accomplish our goals. I see promise in statistics and in Ron's voice. I see promise in grassroots taking its rightful place of spreading the message, but I don't like the grassroots insisting on bending over a mechanic's shoulder and shouting "You're doing it wrong!" in their ears as they try to focus on the task at hand.

Thank you for your time.
 
Back
Top