I am building a wood fired (pizza) oven.

[luctor-et-emergo]

Cool.

So what is the result supposed to be like? I used to do commercial driving and when I was around New Jersey or New York and had some pizzas cooked with ovens like what your describing. It was a really good basic Thin Crust.

I don't like deep dish pizza's unless you call them meat pies, then I'm fine with them. I don't always make the thinnest crust pizza, don't get me wrong, it's never more than 1/4 inch thick. It's preference based, I have made large (20inch) pizzas for years that had very thin crusts and very few toppings but a lot of herbs. Lately I've cut down on the herbs and number of ingredients, I made my pizzas smaller and a slightly thicker crust. Like I said, it's all preference. I'm not afraid to try new things but nothing outrageous.

Visually, this is about what I like to see (not my pic):

 

[donnay]

That is so cool!

 

[Carson]

I'm hearing drawing a parabola and I'm thinking two nails and a string like half way down this page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipse

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

That is so cool!

Thanks !

I'm hearing drawing a parabola and I'm thinking two nails and a string like half way down this page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipse

Yeah that's another way. I am designing on the computer so I either have to make a full size print or I have to recreate what I drew on the computer by using either method. Usually I think about how I'm going to do something and I find out half way in that it's not practical so I'm not going to speculate too much here.

I have never built an oven before, so it's learn-as-I-go for me. I have done masonry, carpentry and CAD design. I know a bit about structural analysis and I have an affinity for making things but by all means, I'm not not a trained professional.

If anyone would like the drawings with measurements, I'll be happy to pm those. They're metric though.

 

[tod evans]

Drawing a full scale segment of an ellipse is quite simple with three nails and a piece of string....

I'm cheating with a link but the cut-n-paste is less effort...:o

https://www.khanacademy.org/math/algebra2/conics_precalc/ellipses-precalc/v/foci-of-an-ellipse

 

[Carson]

Thanks !


Yeah that's another way. I am designing on the computer so I either have to make a full size print or I have to recreate what I drew on the computer by using either method. Usually I think about how I'm going to do something and I find out half way in that it's not practical so I'm not going to speculate too much here.

I have never built an oven before, so it's learn-as-I-go for me. I have done masonry, carpentry and CAD design. I know a bit about structural analysis and I have an affinity for making things but by all means, I'm not not a trained professional.

If anyone would like the drawings with measurements, I'll be happy to pm those. They're metric though.

I also just flashed on a documentary of the building of a large doomed structure. Someone was doing something like rebuilding it or something. He found to old original builders guide markers. They had some anchor points like the two nails and as the built and elliptical dome(?) they could stretch a line up and know exactly were to set their bricks.

It wasn't that long ago that it aired. I can't remember if it was more complex or something just that simple but they were able to work right up the dome as it closed in.

 

[VIDEODROME]

I don't like deep dish pizza's unless you call them meat pies, then I'm fine with them. I don't always make the thinnest crust pizza, don't get me wrong, it's never more than 1/4 inch thick. It's preference based, I have made large (20inch) pizzas for years that had very thin crusts and very few toppings but a lot of herbs. Lately I've cut down on the herbs and number of ingredients, I made my pizzas smaller and a slightly thicker crust. Like I said, it's all preference. I'm not afraid to try new things but nothing outrageous.

Visually, this is about what I like to see (not my pic):

Yup that looks like thinner crust pizza I've had in New Jersey. I'm not sure if it was Wood Fired, but it was a very large stone oven.

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

Drawing a full scale segment of an ellipse is quite simple with three nails and a piece of string....

I'm cheating with a link but the cut-n-paste is less effort...:o

https://www.khanacademy.org/math/algebra2/conics_precalc/ellipses-precalc/v/foci-of-an-ellipse

Posting here is already paying back big time ! I am amongst great people. Thanks.

I also just flashed on a documentary of the building of a large doomed structure. Someone was doing something like rebuilding it or something. He found to old original builders guide markers. They had some anchor points like the two nails and as the built and elliptical dome(?) they could stretch a line up and know exactly were to set their bricks.

It wasn't that long ago that it aired. I can't remember if it was more complex or something just that simple but they were able to work right up the doom as it closed in.

Complex things aren't as difficult as they seem sometimes. I had trouble with algebra because they used to have such weird ways of teaching that letters can be numbers. Everything fell in it's place when I was like "well that seems logical".

Domes are usually not hemispherical because that's not self supporting, the trick with parabolic/elliptical domes is that they are self supporting. The load from the top section is carried down all the way through the dome into the base below. This means that the structure is very strong, the best example of this is the Pantheon in Rome. It's the oldest and still the largest unreinforced concrete dome ever built. I've been there, it's big.

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

Yup that looks like thinner crust pizza I've had in New Jersey. I'm not sure if it was Wood Fired, but it was a very large stone oven.

You don't taste a real smokiness in the pizza when it's wood fired, the difference is mostly temperature and authenticity. There are electric ovens that get up to the same temperature although I think they're still rare.

The biggest difference is that in an electric oven at 480-500F it takes 8 minutes to bake a pizza and in a wood fired oven at 700-750F it takes only a minute, at most a minute and a half. My oven is going to be about 40inches diameter which means 2 nicely sized pizzas could fit in at the same time. I'm not able to make 2 every other minute, so it's large enough. When you're thinking about a business there's a commercial advantage in being able to serve within 2 minutes of ordering. I'd think.

 

[mad cow]

Parthenon in Rome

???

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

???

You got me there.
I have got a good excuse though, I'm still dead from mixing concrete yesterday. Will you forgive my mistake... Of course the Parthenon is in Greece. Pantheon... These things get confusing when you're tired. I should be ashamed of myself though, I had both latin and greek in high school.

 

[Carson]

Posting here is already paying back big time ! I am amongst great people. Thanks.


Complex things aren't as difficult as they seem sometimes. I had trouble with algebra because they used to have such weird ways of teaching that letters can be numbers. Everything fell in it's place when I was like "well that seems logical".

Domes are usually not hemispherical because that's not self supporting, the trick with parabolic/elliptical domes is that they are self supporting. The load from the top section is carried down all the way through the dome into the base below. This means that the structure is very strong, the best example of this is the Pantheon in Rome. It's the oldest and still the largest unreinforced concrete dome ever built. I've been there, it's big.

Yes a true dome is your strongest.

It concerned me a little at first you talking about a parabola shape in your pizza oven.

Maybe the documentary I'm thinking of was a dome. Then all you would need was a fixed eye loop at your starting level to stretch a line from to know just where to mortar your brick.

I'm pretty sure it was one anchor point more complex though.

If the walls of the oven are elliptic you could use two screws and a sting to know where to set your bricks. As the wall arose you would have to raise the level of your guide screws with the level of the walls. Once you reached where you wanted to start your dome you would need to set two eye bolts at the level the dome started and use them with a line to set bricks.

The documentary was a huge dome. I think maybe the grout could have been what made the angle changes you needed in the ellipse. Your going to have very large bricks scale wise and the angles may be a problem.

Another thought came to mind. Maybe calculate out our parabola oven to a size and shape that excepted two spherical domes.That might look kind of sexy on a pizza oven but I'm not sure how it would draw.

 

[amy31416]

Thanks! You're all invited for pizza when it's finished. Hell of a trip though.

Btw, Bryan, FornoBravo is a great resource. I'm not a member there but a lot of my reading has been on those forums. Especially regarding the high temp mortar. Although, I'm not going to do what most are doing there.

Stick to it! I'm planning on taking the kid to Europe in the next 7-10 years. I've only been to Austria, Spain and England, but there's many more places I want to go and take her with me. I could even try to bring you some NYC pizzeria yeast--it's allegedly some of the best in the world.

 

[Suzanimal]

I love tough sourdough French bread but it requires the heavy kneading. I am watching out for a heavy Hobart dough mixer that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Beings that I plan to bake a large batch and then freeze it, the heat holding design seems to make sense.
I know what you mean about the Refractory material. A few years back I built a high temp foundry for melting bronze and iron and it can be unforgiving.

Keep your eye out for restaurants and bakeries going out of business, you can buy used equipment pretty reasonably at those sales. You may also want to visit a few used restaurant supply stores and you may be able to negotiate with them. If they have a lot of them make them an offer and carry cash (don't feel weird about asking for a cash price). Good luck finding a Hobart, they're the bomb!

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

Yes a true dome is your strongest.

It concerned me a little at first you talking about a parabola shape in your pizza oven.

Maybe the documentary I'm thinking of was a dome. Then all you would need was a fixed eye loop at your starting level to stretch a line from to know just where to mortar your brick.

I'm pretty sure it was one anchor point more complex though.

If the walls of the oven are elliptic you could use two screws and a sting to know where to set your bricks. As the wall arose you would have to raise the level of your guide screws with the level of the walls. Once you reached where you wanted to start your dome you would need to set two eye bolts at the level the dome started and use them with a line to set bricks.

The documentary was a huge dome. I think maybe the grout could have been what made the angle changes you needed in the ellipse. Your going to have very large bricks scale wise and the angles may be a problem.

Another thought came to mind. Maybe calculate out our parabola oven to a size and shape that excepted two spherical domes.That might look kind of sexy on a pizza oven but I'm not sure how it would draw.

For actually constructing the dome people either use forms to use as guides when applying the next course of bricks, or they make a supporting structure that they mortar onto. To get the neatest dome I think the best way is to make a piece of wood that lays on the oven floor, in the center you have a pivoting arm that rotates and can go up and down. It also needs to be extendable, for instance with a bolt. That way you can set it for each course and just lay the bricks up to it. (not my idea.)

I'm not sure where you're going with that last part. Do you mean a dome stretched like a soccer stadium ? Those exist.

Stick to it! I'm planning on taking the kid to Europe in the next 7-10 years. I've only been to Austria, Spain and England, but there's many more places I want to go and take her with me. I could even try to bring you some NYC pizzeria yeast--it's allegedly some of the best in the world.

There are still a couple places in Europe that I want to visit. At some point in time I'd like to go to the arctic circle to do a winter survival course. I'm not the type that goes sightseeing . Austria has been one of my favorite countries, good food, nice people and lots of fun in summer and winter.

I don't know too much about yeast except there are a lot of different species. So far I've been using mostly bread yeast that's sold at a bakers supply store, I buy it by the pound, it works well and tastes good. But trying yeast that has been used in pizza's for generations would be totally awesome. I don't think we really have any pizza places like that here.

 

[Suzanimal]

Would you mind posting your pizza dough recipe? Mine ends up tasting like bread, yuk.

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

Would you mind posting your pizza dough recipe? Mine ends up tasting like bread, yuk.

I have simplified my dough although it takes time to develop.

The flour I use is classified as 'pastry flour' in the US.
I use, 2% salt 2% yeast and 65% water.

I use cool water, I first let the yeast develop a bit in the water for half an hour. No sugar.
Then I add that to the flour and knead it until it looks like a pretty good dough, then add the salt and knead more until it's mixed in well with the dough.

Then I rest my dough for 15-30 minutes with a damp cloth over it. Then I weigh each piece of dough and roll them into a ball. Then they go into the fridge for 24 hours to develop. It's important that the dough does not get warm during kneading, so don't knead too heavily. This is a cold rise, it's different.

When you're using the dough let it sit outside the fridge for half an hour to an hour so it gets to the right elasticity. I use semolina to keep my dough from sticking, it adds a bit of texture to the crust without changing the flavor.

 

[phill4paul]

Subscribed to this thread!

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Thread is making me hungry

 

[klamath]

Keep your eye out for restaurants and bakeries going out of business, you can buy used equipment pretty reasonably at those sales. You may also want to visit a few used restaurant supply stores and you may be able to negotiate with them. If they have a lot of them make them an offer and carry cash (don't feel weird about asking for a cash price). Good luck finding a Hobart, they're the bomb!

There is kitchenAid and then you have a real machine. Hobart. Thanks for the tips. Do you have a business or do you just have a Hobart mixer for home use?