WilliamC
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IMHO unless you've put your signature on a piece of paper then you're free to vote your conscious.
I am a delegate for Romney (advice comments please)
- Thread starter Commander Yo
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IMHO unless you've put your signature on a piece of paper then you're free to vote your conscious.
I am a delegate in a precint wiith only 2/19 support for RP and 8/19 support for Romney. next stop the county convention where the actual national delegates are chosen.
I am wondering how I should play this.
Thor
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We have county, then state, then national conventions we need to go to.
I think I am going to lay low until state or national if I keep moving forward. I feel it is acceptable given the fact the media has screwed over RP so bad, that if we are going to get anywhere, we need to play by their rules. McCain could have a heart attack, Romney could have some really bad dirt about him come out. People (delegates) can change their mind. Why make yourself a target to get shot down right away at local? Get to National, and then be a vocal brick wall for Ron Paul.
I hate to say it, but we know what is better for this country than the people who vote on a beauty contest, or want to kill, kill, kill.
The caucus last night I went to was a joke. Everything was disorganized, no guidance, people wandering about, no id's checked. Half the packets had resolutions, the other half did not, and they told us to ignore them (and they were on the national ID, privacy, etc). We asked if we needed to read all the pages of the meeting to formally go through it, and they said no, just choose your delegates. I was told that they really need delegates that want to go to State, as they have a hard time getting people to want to go. Excellent.
And the propaganda about how the republicans were the "right ones" and the dem's were evil shitheads made me want to puke.... Saying the Dem's had "no values". It was the holier than thou rah-rah crap.
Are we looking to retake the Republican party from the neo-cons and Christian right who took it over several years ago, or form our own party. If any one who supports RP became a delegate who now thinks they need to vote for the majority of their precinct (like Romney), you need to do a double check.
We definitely got more delegates than the straw poll represents. That seems to be the case in El Paso county anyway. In my precinct, 45 people showed up to vote. Romney got 21 votes to Ron Paul's 2 (none of my people showed or voted for Paul I guess). However, I got 1 of the 8 county delegate positions, 1 of the 2 congressional delegate positions and 1 of the 2 state delegate positions. I even got a resolution passed on abolishing the federal reserve. After explaining the fed to them, that vote was unanimous.
So Paul only got 4.4% of the straw poll, in my precinct, but 12.5% of the county delegate slots, 50% of the congressional district slots and 50% of the state slots. I know many of the other precincts were similar.
Good. We had about 20 precincts in the same gymnasium and people stumping for their presidential candidates up front. The guy stumping for McCain got booed off the stage and threatened with violence. I was amazed by it. The Ron Paul speakers got mostly cheered (although not as much as the Romney guy). If Romney leaves, I can see Colorado following Paul (even to a 3rd party). That's El Paso county though, not sure about the more liberal areas.
allyinoh
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I'm sure there are Mitt Romney forums somewhere on the web.
Commander Yo
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Thanks for the comments ya'all. What I love about all you guys, is that you are never boring or stupid. Thanks.
Two of the Ron Paul supporters were total nut bags last night, a total embarrassment. They were so far outside of the system and could not participate anyway. That is not how we win! Thankfully, one well dressed woman did an excellent thoughtful speech for Ron Paul. I gave her that look like you got my back? So we did our job, I am a delegate. The worst thing to do would have been to give up my voice. I did not promise anything to anyone. I did not declare I would support Romney. But these people are my friends and neighbors, as long as Romney is in the race I will not forsake that. I believe Dr. Paul would agree; the Revolution IS about integrity.
In addition my Mormon friend spoke in support of Romney. In doing so all he talked about was respect and support of the constitution. Most Mormons believe that the constitution is a divinely inspired document, which it is. I am fairly sure they all know that I was not a Romney person and that I was a Paul guy, although I stayed away from any blatant support of Paul. I believe I was given a mandate to respect and defend the constitution as well, so I will see how things shake out...Hopefully Romney will tank and I will not be left in this moral crisis.
That said, I am going to continue with the strategy of flying under the radar and being a good little GOP minion. We take this back one person at a time, however slowly and painfully that will be. And when the time comes, or I hit the end of my road, I will spring forth from my Trojan Horse and do what I can for Dr. Ron Paul. I pray he does not drop out even with a very very tough night last night. I suggest all of us delegates do this, we need a delegate thread so we can talk strategy. I did achieved the objective based exactly on the outline from the meet-up group, just not the way I wanted it to!
Yo
Two of the Ron Paul supporters were total nut bags last night, a total embarrassment. They were so far outside of the system and could not participate anyway. That is not how we win! Thankfully, one well dressed woman did an excellent thoughtful speech for Ron Paul. I gave her that look like you got my back? So we did our job, I am a delegate. The worst thing to do would have been to give up my voice. I did not promise anything to anyone. I did not declare I would support Romney. But these people are my friends and neighbors, as long as Romney is in the race I will not forsake that. I believe Dr. Paul would agree; the Revolution IS about integrity.
In addition my Mormon friend spoke in support of Romney. In doing so all he talked about was respect and support of the constitution. Most Mormons believe that the constitution is a divinely inspired document, which it is. I am fairly sure they all know that I was not a Romney person and that I was a Paul guy, although I stayed away from any blatant support of Paul. I believe I was given a mandate to respect and defend the constitution as well, so I will see how things shake out...Hopefully Romney will tank and I will not be left in this moral crisis.
That said, I am going to continue with the strategy of flying under the radar and being a good little GOP minion. We take this back one person at a time, however slowly and painfully that will be. And when the time comes, or I hit the end of my road, I will spring forth from my Trojan Horse and do what I can for Dr. Ron Paul. I pray he does not drop out even with a very very tough night last night. I suggest all of us delegates do this, we need a delegate thread so we can talk strategy. I did achieved the objective based exactly on the outline from the meet-up group, just not the way I wanted it to!
Yo
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Mormons do hold the Constitution as sacred. I do not understand why they would not vote for a Christian Constitutionalist instead of a Mormon Warmonger. I think you need to speak. I think you need to help them understand where their hearts truly lie. Anyone can "fake" religion.
I know we have a non-binding commitment but I will faithfully execute my duty as a Romney Delegate. That is the right thing to do. :o
Right?
Did you declare your support for Romney, or do they not know who you support? If you never said who you would vote for, then I think it is fine for you to vote for whoever you want.
Here's an idea, though - what is the first stage of the process at which delegates are bound to the candidate? If Romney wins the county convention and you are a delegate, do you need to vote for him at the state level? If he wins the state convention and you are a delegate to the national convention, do you need to vote for him there? You might want to make it as far as possible being "undeclared", and only vote for Paul at the highest level you can actually do so.
therealjjj77
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We do not live in a democracy nor does Ron Paul support democracy. Democracy is the idea that the majority rules. If the majority thinks slavery is OK, then slavery is OK under democracy.
However, a republic, which is what Ron Paul supports and what our nation is, is based upon the rule of law. People are elected to follow and obey the rule of law even if it goes against the majority's wishes.
Romney has made very clear that he has no intention of ending this unconstitutional war or ending the misapplication of the income tax. Romney has no intention of decreasing the size of government. Only Ron Paul has always followed his oath to uphold the Constitution. Romney has not.
You must vote according to who YOU feel would best uphold the rule of law. That is the republic way. You should not vote based on some majority. Majority is irrelevant. The law is all that matters. And you are guilty of violating it if you knowingly put someone into power who will.
helmuth_hubener
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NO Moral Crisis
Even if, hypothetically, you *did* have to promise to vote for Romney, subterfuge is not necessarily forbidden by the commandments. Consider the case of Nephi in 1 Ne. 4, getting the plates from Laban. Romney is an enemy. The things he stands for are evil. His proposed policies are evil. He does not stand for Mormon values. He wants the government to steal, enslave, and murder. We are justified in defending ourselves against the atrocities Mitt supports.
Your goal is to help Ron Paul get support, right? So obviously, vote for Ron Paul at some point. The question, as someone else mentioned, is how to best do this, since there are additional levels to go (district, state, national). If you think you can infiltrate all the way to the top and become a national delegate under the Romney banner (but you will really vote for Ron Paul) then go for it. I don't know how Colorado works.
If I had thought quicker and smarter where I'm at (in Wyoming), I would have volunteered and become a part of the Romney campaign and hopefully been their national delegate nominee. I'm a Mormon and fit the profile -- I could have easily pulled the wool over their eyes. That way it would have been a run-off between a Ron Paul supporter and a (secret) Ron Paul supporter and we would have won either way.
In any case, you should have *no moral dilemma*! This is politics. To think that you would be in any way dishonest to vote for Ron Paul is simply a misunderstanding of honesty. You made no promise. You bore no false witness. You told no lies. You are a total free agent, so now go in there and win one for Ron Paul!
There is no moral crisis here. You didn't promise anything. You thus do not have to break any promise. Where is the moral crisis?
Even if, hypothetically, you *did* have to promise to vote for Romney, subterfuge is not necessarily forbidden by the commandments. Consider the case of Nephi in 1 Ne. 4, getting the plates from Laban. Romney is an enemy. The things he stands for are evil. His proposed policies are evil. He does not stand for Mormon values. He wants the government to steal, enslave, and murder. We are justified in defending ourselves against the atrocities Mitt supports.
Your goal is to help Ron Paul get support, right? So obviously, vote for Ron Paul at some point. The question, as someone else mentioned, is how to best do this, since there are additional levels to go (district, state, national). If you think you can infiltrate all the way to the top and become a national delegate under the Romney banner (but you will really vote for Ron Paul) then go for it. I don't know how Colorado works.
If I had thought quicker and smarter where I'm at (in Wyoming), I would have volunteered and become a part of the Romney campaign and hopefully been their national delegate nominee. I'm a Mormon and fit the profile -- I could have easily pulled the wool over their eyes. That way it would have been a run-off between a Ron Paul supporter and a (secret) Ron Paul supporter and we would have won either way.
In any case, you should have *no moral dilemma*! This is politics. To think that you would be in any way dishonest to vote for Ron Paul is simply a misunderstanding of honesty. You made no promise. You bore no false witness. You told no lies. You are a total free agent, so now go in there and win one for Ron Paul!
therealjjj77
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You have a moral obligation to vote for the candidate who will obey the Constitution. If there are two of these, then you can follow their preference. Unfortunately there aren't two candidates running who have and will obey the Constitution, there is only one.
Overnight I thought about your concern.
You were not elected to parrot the will of the people who attended the caucus. You were elected to represent the people of your precinct.
So head out and do a bit of one-on-one canvassing. Use the precinct leader program at RP2008.com. Or you now have a serious "in" to ask questions because you are a delegate.
If people in your precinct are uncommitted, find out the issues that resonate with them. Even if they say they support someone else, find out what issues resonate. Your goal is to ask questions of them - to listen not to talk/sell.
It may well be that most Republicans in your precinct are a)uncommitted themselves, b)believe in low taxes, small government, Constitution, etc. And if so, then you fulfill your obligations by pondering which candidate best represents those. Even if they haven't even heard of that candidate or only know that candidate via media smears. After all, they did elect you to pay attention to all those details so they wouldn't need to.
OTOH, if your precinct is a bunch of big-government, empire-builders, who want a Prez who plays "let's make a deal" with a Dem Congress, who rather like forcing their children to pay our debts, who want open-borders and one-world government, who don't much care about the 2nd Amendment (or the whole document for that matter), and would really prefer a dictatorship or mobocracy to a republic; then your dilemma remains.
You were not elected to parrot the will of the people who attended the caucus. You were elected to represent the people of your precinct.
So head out and do a bit of one-on-one canvassing. Use the precinct leader program at RP2008.com. Or you now have a serious "in" to ask questions because you are a delegate.
If people in your precinct are uncommitted, find out the issues that resonate with them. Even if they say they support someone else, find out what issues resonate. Your goal is to ask questions of them - to listen not to talk/sell.
It may well be that most Republicans in your precinct are a)uncommitted themselves, b)believe in low taxes, small government, Constitution, etc. And if so, then you fulfill your obligations by pondering which candidate best represents those. Even if they haven't even heard of that candidate or only know that candidate via media smears. After all, they did elect you to pay attention to all those details so they wouldn't need to.
OTOH, if your precinct is a bunch of big-government, empire-builders, who want a Prez who plays "let's make a deal" with a Dem Congress, who rather like forcing their children to pay our debts, who want open-borders and one-world government, who don't much care about the 2nd Amendment (or the whole document for that matter), and would really prefer a dictatorship or mobocracy to a republic; then your dilemma remains.
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Bilgefisher
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Now its real easy for you. Win/win. 
Thats exactly what I was thinking. All the Mormons should surely go to the Constitutionalist..
