Hurts Liberty Movement

[RickyJ]

This is the first I've heard of this. After reading a little online, this is fine. Gives Rand an opportunity to distance himself from Ron - gaining favor with booyah patriots. Allows people to say that it's the unpatriotic nature of Ron Paul's words sometimes that makes them not like Ron Paul. All that's to the good.

Anything to get Rand in there right? Really? How about Rand's son going to Afghanistan to fight, that should help him even more with the neocons. Whatever it takes to get him in there, no matter the costs huh? I think you highly overvalue the office of the president of the USA today. Sacrificing your principles to get the job only means you care about perceived power more than your principles.

The POTUS job today is a figure head job. Obama might get the blame for things that go wrong while he is president, but he is only doing what the people that put him in office want him to do. He knows to do anything else would not only not be wise, but could be very detrimental to his health. If Rand ever became president then he would be in same position Obama, Bush and Clinton were in before him. If he did not live up to the expectations the real people that put him in office had for him then he would not hold the job long. Trying to change a corrupt system from within the system will never work.

 

[XTreat]

I think it needs to be put in context. I highly doubt Ron Paul wrote it. Highly, highly doubt, as in 97-98% certain he did not.

But hey, let's say he did.

What was being referred to is the culture of war, the idea that killing in war is something that is not merely sometimes necessary, but desirable. Ron Paul talked a lot about Just War Theory. Under Just War principles, war is the absolute last resort –*and even then, killing is an undesirable end that is only done if truly necessary. Even then, civilian casualties are to be kept as minimum as possible.

Chris Kyle spoke of killing more as a sniper than any other without remorse as to having done so. That, you could reasonably understand, was a choice of his in terms of attitude.

My personal opinion is that Chris Kyle was a fine soldier who did his duty. He did as he was asked to do, and I would be one to say that this is a good thing. I tend to take a very high view of military men and women personally, rather preferring to focus my disagreement upon the policies that put those men and women into battle in the first place.

I think all of us in the liberty movement would prefer to honor our men and women in uniform but also hope that they recognize the principles of Just War and the misappropriation of power where it exists within our government.

The problem with the tweet, of course, is that death is always a sad thing, and it was insensitive. That is why I strongly believe, more than any other reason, that Ron did not write it.

While I do not know Ron personally, I have had some connections over these years with several of his staffers and confidants, and a consistent theme is his disdain for the taking of any human life, born or unborn, in the streets or in a battlefield. He is a good man who believes in the value of all life.

So it's really a matter of emphasis, but as I said before, the lack of nuance in politics is ultimately what makes saying something like this a bad idea. But I wouldn't think differently of Ron Paul because of it necessarily, if you try to capture what he was thinking of.

I am wondering how you know that he did not write this? Everyone one I know that would know this type of thing has told me he has had control over his twitter and FB accounts since he left office. Please PM me if you would, I would appreciate it.

 

[Anti-Neocon]

Anything to get Rand in there right? Really? How about Rand's son going to Afghanistan to fight, that should help him even more with the neocons. Whatever it takes to get him in there, no matter the costs huh? I think you highly overvalue the office of the president of the USA today. Sacrificing your principles to get the job only means you care about perceived power more than your principles.

The POTUS job today is a figure head job. Obama might get the blame for things that go wrong while he is president, but he is only doing what the people that put him in office want him to do. He knows to do anything else would not only not be wise, but could be very detrimental to his health. If Rand ever became president then he would be in same position Obama, Bush and Clinton were in before him. If he did not live up to the expectations the real people that put him in office had for him then he would not hold the job long. Trying to change a corrupt system from within the system will never work.

Yeah, who cares about getting the POTUS job when we can have a liberty forum circle jerk and lose all our remaining freedoms?

 

[Occam's Banana]

Yeah, who cares about getting the POTUS job when we can have a liberty forum circle jerk and lose all our remaining freedoms?

Apparently, you do. Oh, wait ...

 

[jmdrake]

The whole thing was orchestrated to break Rand away from his father and his nutjob[/stike] courageous supporters, and it worked. Look at the bright side, you still have Glenn Beck on your side for a while until Rubio wins his heart. Too bad not even Rand can beat a Democrat in the general election without us.

Fixed it for you. Yes I think there may be some coordination and yes this helps Rand. But it's not "nutjob" to think that these wars do nothing to help win our freedoms and that be heaping praise on those who volunteer to fight them simply encourages more of the same. The Paul's may be taking a two track strategy. If so, that's a good thing. Do you have to be an ass, or can you just let the track that doesn't fit your personality do its thing in peace?

 

[jmdrake]

Matthew also says

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Matthew 7:1-2 KJV)

So why are you judging then?

 

[pcosmar]

Matthew also says

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." (Matthew 7:1-2 KJV)

And also,,
John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Christ's words are the truth,, whether you like it or not.
"for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" is not a judgement,, it is a consequence.

and the second was an opinion,
Taking the man to a range, arming him and turning your back to an armed, disturbed individual is unwise.
Stupidity often has consequences.

I don't understand the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[gte811i]

And also,,
John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Christ's words are the truth,, whether you like it or not.
"for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" is not a judgement,, it is a consequence.

and the second was an opinion,
Taking the man to a range, arming him and turning your back to an armed, disturbed individual is unwise.
Stupidity often has consequences.

I don't understand the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth.

The hand-wringing is overcompensation from the 70s and the Vietnam War. We went from cries of "baby-killers" to military hero worship. Anyone who puts on a uniform is somehow elevated to some mythical status where they can do no wrong.

IMO what many people do not understand is how very deeply religious and Christian Ron Paul is, and when I say that I mean that my impression is that he tries very hard to follow the words/actions of Christ. He isn't perfect, but his actions speak to me of someone who is a true follower of Christ.

Just think about it, we have a man who has over 150 confirmed kills. Did he do his job? Sure. But it's the old saying of WWJD, would Christ have done what this man did . . . probably not.

If we cannot realize as a society that when you live in violence you beget violence then we are very, very far from gone.