Huckleberry Proposes 23% Sales Tax Hey THANKS MIKE !

[jhabers]

I happen to agree with Ron Paul that income taxes and national sales taxes are unnessecary as long as we scaled back the Fed Gov't to it's size of 10 years ago (which Ron had his facts ready on that on Meet the Press).

However, the 23% national sales tax would not increase taxes on you & I at all. If we have to replace the Income Tax, this IS the way to go. The prebate check would take significantly less buearacracy to maintain than the current system.

The Fair Tax would save me on my taxes I'm certain. It won't inflate the real cost of the cost of goods (because corporations wouldn't be taxed on their income which is included in the cost of goods already today).

Read the book...it's a quick read and makes sense.

I agree with that the fairtax is much better than the income tax. Not as good as Dr. Pauls idea though. I would suggest anyone interested in learning about the fairtax to pick up "the fairtax book" by congressman Linder and Neal Boortz.

http://www.amazon.com/FairTax-Book-Neal-Boortz/dp/0060875410

 

[jhabers]

Yes. Fair tax is 30%...the 23% rate is a marketing sham, gimmick, or outright lie IMO. There is a lot of misunderstanding of the fairtax...the 23% rate is probably the biggest.

I still think the Fairtax is better than the current income tax, but Ron Paul's plan is much better. I applaud Huckabee in a way for having the guts to support the fairtax. I believe most other Republicans understand it is better than the current tax code, but don't support it for the fact that it is highly misunderstood and the public can easily be misled about its effect and intentions.

I don't think its a lie, its actually both, 23% and30%, depends how you calculate it. 23% is the inclusive tax and 30% is the exclusive tax rate. Sales tax currently is calculated exclusively (like state sales tax). Our Fed income tax rate is calculated inclusively, thats why they go with the 23% figure because its parallel to what we see on our tax returns

 

[TruckinMike]

First off --- Huckabee would NEVER actually support the fairtax. He is just using it as a tool to manipulate voters. He loves the power of government to much.

second -- The fairtax does one very important thing. It wakes each and every American up to the concept of wanting to reduce government spending. How? Most people today get a check FROM the government -- thus they are not "punished"--- they are "rewarded" every year with a check from dear 'ol government. With the fairtax each individual will feel the pain of each and every purchase when the tax whacks them upside the head. --- This is a GOOD thing. It makes them want a smaller government.

third -- One of the biggest PROS is that our exports would be void of built in income and capital gain taxes -- thus making our goods much more competitive in the world market. We would experience a rebirth of American manufacturing.

Yes. Fair tax is 30%...the 23% rate is a marketing sham, gimmick, or outright lie IMO

Yes the tax on the product itself would be around 30%. But when you average in the prebate with taxes paid it is reduced to around 23% in the end. Based on income tax rates. And I would except that. I write a check for thousands of dollars every year to the IRS. I would prefer everyone else in America to feel the pain along with me--- thus causing a revolt and an extreme shrinkage of government as a result.

And I did read the book, the plan is actually really good. --- when compared to the tyrannical IRS system that we have now.

I like the concept as long as the IRS is actually GONE. I like the freedom to choose. Without the GOVERNMENT FORCING me to file taxes. I love the freedom from government. Also -- The choice is yours whether to buy or save--- and imagine NO capital gains TAX!!!

Of Course... in the end --- Our man Ron Paul's plan is the BEST by far --NO IRS and NO sales tax!

TruckinMike

 

[bdillahu]

Fairtax may not be perfect, but it is designed to be revenue NEUTRAL... meaning bring in the same amount as we are taking from the people with the income tax now. If we can reduce the size of the government then the 23/30% (I agree... might as well just say 30) could really be dropped.

Think about it... if the 30% is accurate (and some people say its too low) then that is what we are paying NOW... we just don't realize it since its hidden.

Let's get the cost of our oversized Federal government out where "we the people" see what we are spending. Then I think it will be easier to downsize.

 

[TruckinMike]

Think about it... if the 30% is accurate (and some people say its too low) then that is what we are paying NOW... we just don't realize it since its hidden.

+1

TM

 

[Desperado]

When I first considered a National Sales Tax I was thinking somewhere between 5 and 10%. Simply because of the you are spreading the tax over a much greater population. Illegals and Criminals would now be paying tax on their their purchases as opposed to their income. Huckabee at 23% is way beyond what is needed.
No wonder they say the Huckabee has never met a tax he didn't like!

 

[Goldwater Conservative]

To be fair, prices would drop and/or wages would rise (the truth is probably a little of both) in the absence of income and payroll taxes, which means all the FairTax does is make the taxes embedded in goods and services visible rather than hidden.

Also, the 23% rate is used because it's tax-inclusive, which is how the income and payroll taxes the FairTax would replace are expressed. For example, if the government says your income tax burden for the year is 23%, you really owe 30% of what you'll actually keep.

I'd support the FairTax if we could first eliminate the income tax as Paul suggests, then repeal the 16th Amendment. That way, most of what would be left are progressive social programs, but they'd be funded by a regressive sales tax (at a significantly lower rate than the proposed FairTax) that replaced the regressive FICA tax (15.3%, tax-inclusive, only on labor income and only under 100K is highly regressive). Suddenly, the costs of entitlement spending become transparent.

 

[TSOL]

That's the problem with this.

Abolishing the IRa does not mean making up for it with some absurd Flat Tax. Jeeeez.

What part do the candidates not get ? We don't want to pay the GOVERNMENT anything.

 

[jhabers]

That's the problem with this.

Abolishing the IRa does not mean making up for it with some absurd Flat Tax. Jeeeez.

What part do the candidates not get ? We don't want to pay the GOVERNMENT anything.

yes that should be the end result, but I think this will help us get to that end result

 

[jhabers]

When I first considered a National Sales Tax I was thinking somewhere between 5 and 10%. Simply because of the you are spreading the tax over a much greater population. Illegals and Criminals would now be paying tax on their their purchases as opposed to their income. Huckabee at 23% is way beyond what is needed.
No wonder they say the Huckabee has never met a tax he didn't like!

Yes, 23% is more than is needed, but needs vary depending on government spending. With the current government spending 23% is revenue neutral. Cut spending and that 23% rapidly decreases. Spending is not going to be cut to Pauls standards over night, thats why I think the fair tax works hand in hand how I see the decrease in spending going. Also remember Huckabee did not write this bill, he just endorses it.

 

[ButchHowdy]

That's the problem with this.

Abolishing the IRa does not mean making up for it with some absurd Flat Tax. Jeeeez.

What part do the candidates not get ? We don't want to pay the GOVERNMENT anything.

AMEN!!

Also, Is it just me or do you find this 'prebate' concept a tad intrusive? It seems a great way to track / document / harness the masses.

 

[r3volution]

i just did the math , i would have to pay DOUBLE what i now pay in fed income tax !

 

[Fox McCloud]

I messed around with the flat tax calculator, and there's a few things I need to look at in more detail, but I believe I'd end up paying more with the flat tax than less.

Anyway, I hate the idea of the flat tax...first off, it will never get off the ground (especially since the bankers are making a profit off of the income tax). Even so, if it did get off the ground, by a miracle, it wouldn't help the consumer at all; it would actually discourage the purchasing of various goods. Yes, you're not paying the income tax, but still, paying an extra 20-30 cents on the dollar is just crazy.

the only tax I support are....well, none really (ok, tax for the highways is the only one I really tolerate). "Idiot taxes"? Yeah, those are ok, since they're completely mandatory (an example of the idiot tax is state run lotteries, which help to fund schools).

as for environmental consumption taxes, green taxes, carbon taxes, and other such environmental taxes? Worst thing ever; it'll do nothing to help the environment, and it'll only help fund various immoral agendas.

 

[ThePieSwindler]

yes that should be the end result, but I think this will help us get to that end result

Actually, no, this would not really do that at all. Government will not just one day decide to make itself more limited, it must be forced down in that manner. Giving it a different form of taxation is just as dangerous as any other - especially when it is a single tax with so much direct power over it, and it could be applied in so many instances of "purchase". the fairtax is preferable strictly for the reason that it allows people to save and create more wealth, but it does very little to diminish the size and scope of government - if anything, it will increase its powers because it will give them an excuse to administer some pretty invasive police powers to "uphold" the tax to make sure people arent "cheating" or "evading" it through grey market sales.

 

[jhabers]

Actually, no, this would not really do that at all. Government will not just one day decide to make itself more limited, it must be forced down in that manner. Giving it a different form of taxation is just as dangerous as any other - especially when it is a single tax with so much direct power over it, and it could be applied in so many instances of "purchase". the fairtax is preferable strictly for the reason that it allows people to save and create more wealth, but it does very little to diminish the size and scope of government - if anything, it will increase its powers because it will give them an excuse to administer some pretty invasive police powers to "uphold" the tax to make sure people arent "cheating" or "evading" it through grey market sales.

Yes, i agree that any form of taxation is dangerous, but it moves the power from the government, a mandatory tax on our earning to us, a "voluntary tax" per say, one that is based on consumption.

 

[TruckinMike]

but it moves the power from the government, a mandatory tax on our earning to us, a "voluntary tax"

Yes -- and thats much better than having the IRS in your business. Freedom from taxes and intrusive government is the end result. As I stated earlier -- the average person would now feel the wrath of BIG government. This huge sales tax would cause a new revolt -- a revolt to reduce the governments size. The only problem --- socialist hate the idea --- even if the poor are compensated' They know what I know. A revolt would soon be here. All tax and spend democrats and repugnicans would be thrown out on their ears!

TM

 

[Birdlady]

You'll see development of massive black market activity.

Absolutely. And do you know what the government's solution will be? A national ID card.

Most people don't realize that this FairTax and National ID card go hand and hand. To stop the black market activity, you will need to swipe your national ID card at every register/store you purchse something from. Your ID card will have specific information on it that lets the machine know what YOUR sales tax is in relation to your income. It will be a graduated sales tax. I assure you! These people who say it will be a flat tax are wrong. It might start out as a flat tax, but the media will show poor people complaining about it. There will be a huge movement in the media to make it graduated to help "lower income families".

Once this is in place our country is in trouble. They will start to track the foods we buy (They already do with those grocery cards) and transfer that information to your health insurance provider, doctor, and whoever else wants that information.
Watch this little clip. This is exactly what will happen.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...l=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

 

[daniroyer]

Remember, it's not just 23%...you have to add on state sales tax. Where I live in Miami, FL, that means, if local stays at 7%, I'd be taxed 30% on everything.

30 cents per EVERY dollar spent.

I'd have to pay $3 in taxes for every $10 I spend. That's just plain WRONG.

I wonder if bibles would be tax-exempt in Father Huck's world...

 

[jhabers]

Remember, it's not just 23%...you have to add on state sales tax. Where I live in Miami, FL, that means, if local stays at 7%, I'd be taxed 30% on everything.

30 cents per EVERY dollar spent.

I'd have to pay $3 in taxes for every $10 I spend. That's just plain WRONG.

I wonder if bibles would be tax-exempt in Father Huck's world...

That is very true but you also have to realize you are already paying those taxes now, its the IRS, state tax AND embedded taxes that are built into the price of the product (which many people don't realize)

Also used good are exempt (I'm pretty sure), so yea you would pay this tax on a new car, but a used car would be tax free (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[dircha]

Americans will not tolerate a 23% national sales tax. It's foolish to even suggest.

It's not even worth discussion. If he intends to run on this - and he is now - he will fall flat on his face in a general elections.

One of the reasons the personal income tax is so easy for so many Americans to tolerate is that for most people it comes out of their paycheck before they ever see it.

This is why Ron Paul should focus more on a presenting what practically he would do in his first term. No one is going to be passing a 23% national sales tax in the next 4 years with a Democratic controlled congress. And no one is going to be eliminating the personal income tax.

But massively cutting foreign aid and foreign military spending is something that can get through, and Congressman Paul is the only one running on this.