Huckabee vs RP Who won? - Be objective please!

[jj111]

you are right, he should clarify that it was wrong from the beginning and unconstitutional, but then say that the mission pres. bush wanted his military to do is already accomplished and there is no reason to stay.

It is debatable to say that there is "no reason" to stay.
They give a lot of reasons to stay, but they either are
1) based on false premises
2) based on unproven predictions
3) simply unsound or
4) counterproductive when weighed against costs.

I would not say there is "no reason" to stay. Perhaps, there is no "necessary reason" to stay.....

 

[emilysdad]

Paul's answers were detailed and sophisticated, Huckabee was speaking in slogans like "divided we fall" and "honor".

Paul won.

exactly. Ron wanted to debate!! Huck played the safe and true "patriotism" angle. How could Huck possibly have won, he didn't say anything. Looked great on the tube, but when you read the transcript, the exchange was an obvious victory for RP.

Best debate so far.

 

[maxmerkel]

People respond to emotions, but they are just as responsive to $$. And I don't care if you're Hannity himself, you can't argue that bucket loads of money is spent on this war. Money that isn't even ours.

"your fuckin honor costs ordinary americans $1 trillion every year"

maybe we yould supply pauls campaign with nice punchlines

 

[Paulitician]

Paul's answers were detailed and sophisticated, Huckabee was speaking in slogans like "divided we fall" and "honor".

Paul won.

Indeed. Huckabee never explained why we must stay there. Ron Paul quickly shot down his argument with the "saving face" comment. Plus, Ron Paul has tons of other reasons why we should not be there anymore (unfortunately the American people didn't really get to hear them.)

 

[rajibo]

As much as I enjoyed the discoruse between the two, I think Ron Paul wasted a good opportunity. While mentioning killed Americans was a good 1-2 punch, he should have stressed that we are running ourselves bankrupt.

Huckabee attacks with emotions. "When I was a little kid"... "we have to fix what we broke".... "we can't lose honor".....

Ron Paul should have counter attacked with "We are running our asses broke" theme. People respond to emotions, but they are just as responsive to $$. And I don't care if you're Hannity himself, you can't argue that bucket loads of money is spent on this war. Money that isn't even ours.

If Ron Paul started talking finances and money, he'd destroy Huckabee, instead of merely having a rebuttal for him.

I think Paul counterpunched with more powerful emotions when he brought up all the lives being lost in this thing. You could actually hear the real emotions in his voice as he was saying it, and it's why the MSM is refusing to play that part of the exchange. They don't want to admit that to themselves. So much for being Pro-life.

 

[Natalie]

At first I thought Ron Paul won. But then I saw that graph, that showed Huckabee won. Huckabee is the clear winner.

 

[slantedview]

it was even for the most part, but honestly, huckabee seemed to get better cheers towards the end. unfortunately the cheers were for some fluffy statement, nothing of substance. given that he closed with a fluffy statement lacking substance, i give it to Dr. paul.

 

[slantedview]

At first I thought Ron Paul won. But then I saw that graph, that showed Huckabee won. Huckabee is the clear winner.

the graph was measured by a few people in a room who used clicker buttons. it wasn't reflective of the entire audience or their applauses. it was a hell of a lot closer if taking the entire audience into account.

 

[BIG_J]

I think it was sarcasm

 

[katao]

We have lost, not won, because the primary pretext of the war (WMDs) has proven false, and the secondary purpose (a more stable Middle East) has proven to be counterproductive. We went in to be more safe and now are far less safe.

 

[shadowhooch]

I'm all about Ron Paul. But if I was an undecided voter, I'd honestly have to say Huckabee won the exchange.

No offense, but Ron Paul ducked part of the question of our obligation to the Iraqi people and the potential bloodbath by saying, "why should I believe you". It is a definite possibility. And even I, who have been against the war from the start, am a little leary about not caring what happens to the Iraqi people.

We DID, afterall, create this mess. There is no changing that. We do have a bit of an obligation to help the Iraqi people. Does that mean a troop presence? Maybe not. But it does paint Ron Paul as cold and selfish to not address it directly.

That being said, I still think troop withdrawal is the best and only solution to Iraq and all the other countries we are in. But he needs to have a response to what he will do if the radicals take over or Iran invades.

I don't know the perfect answer. Maybe simply saying that troop withdrawal is the best current solution because troops are not designed for police action. But maybe leave the door open for controlled strikes against the aggressor if a genocide begins to occur. I think if we did nothing to respond, it would severely damage the US reputation with the world (even more than it is now).

I hate that we created this mess and only Ron Paul can prevent us from getting into this situation in the future.

 

[Magsec]

I was kinda hoping Huckabee's analogy turned against him. Iraq, he says, is a "Broken Glass" now he wants to go to war with IRAN and do the same thing all over again, break that glass! Buy the whole Middle East!

 

[angelatc]

The thing is, when we pull out there will be an uprising. If we stay there for two weeks or two centuries, it doesn't matter.

 

[Bossobass]

'We' ARE standing together. A majority of us, anyway. 70% of us stand together screaming, "Out of Iraq NOW!", but people like Huckabee are ignoring us as they have throughout American history, while talking 'We're winning', 'escalation is the answer'.

76% of us wanted immediate withdrawal from Vietnam. We fought physically, demonstrated in record numbers, burned draft cards, withheld taxes, went to jail and screamed at the top of our lungs...FOR 10 YEARS, while first, a Democrat and then a Republican President ignored us and escalated the war.

RP is right. We the People, through our representatives, should JUST LEAVE.

If it turns out later that the situation deteriorates to the point that our National Security is endangered, let Congress declare war, then, let's hit the war with all of our might, win it and come home...PERIOD.

The rest of the neocon rhetoric on this subject is propaganda from the bastards who are looting our treasury by this illegal aggression against a helpless third world country, the same bastards who looted our treasury in the Vietnam fiasco, which also nearly tore the American population to shreds in the process.

We have never paid the debt from Vietnam, let alone ever having a chance in hell of paying the debt incurred in Iraq.

I want us OUT. F%$K the draft. I want my money back from those thieving pukes.

Huckabee has so painfully obviously been brought into the fold. He's been given the position of the sacrificial lamb whose job is attacking RP. He's been given an obviously false boost in the 'polls'. Just look where he's from, and how he got there. Look at what he did while in office there.

Maybe they promised him the VP spot, or a cabinet spot, or a lucrative lackey's position, or a Minister of Stealing position in the NAU. I don't know. I just know that only an imbecile who has no knowledge of post WWII 'Police Actions' would see Iraq as anything more than what it is: a money-maker and energy monopoly power grab by the scum who are destroying the USA.

I'm just sayin'...

Bosso

 

[adpierce]

Think about the Paul-Rudy exchange

At first, everybody had thought Rudy Gulliani had won the exchange, but the principled answer with intelligent thought won out after people had time to reflect on what actually had been said. What Ron actually said is the value of human life is superior to that of any perception of honor or ability to save face. To pull out now is to save American lives, which is the only obligation that the politicians of this country have right now. There is no obligation to the people of Iraq, we didn't break their country as Huckabee insisted, their country was already broken. We did them a favor by ousting Saddam, their own government is their own responsibility. We don't force them to kill each other, that was a result of their own latent bitterness and hatred toward one another. If we hadn't gone in and ousted Saddam, eventually given time this same situation would have happened regardless of our involvement. The added tragedy that our involvement brings besides the loss of our troops is that we're building more animosity towards us in the region and Jihadists have more ammunition than ever to attack the United States. Any temporary solution "the surge" can give us will be outweighed by the future waves of salafists who I can promise won't forget that we are set on permanently occupying their holy land. If we don't tackle the issue of "responsibility over Iraq" now, it'll for sure be a slam dunk for the Dems when the nominees are finally chosen.

 

[Shink]

Saying the word "honor" does not an argument make. I know you're hoping everyone plays devil's advocate, but that's all Huckabee made himself look like. THINK ABOUT IT.

 

[slantedview]

Saying the word "honor" does not an argument make. I know you're hoping everyone plays devil's advocate, but that's all Huckabee made himself look like. THINK ABOUT IT.

EXACTLY. How exactly does the all knowing Huckabee suggest we leave without honor? What's honorable about maintaining a situation where our men and women are being killed every day?

We must leave we honor. Empty words, completely empty.

People should know better than to fall for that stuff.

 

[Shink]

I'm STILL pumping adrenaline from seeing Ron's dominating performance last night. We should have a thread devoted to listing/gauging all the new references to him/articles/media, etc. Sorry you guys, but Huckabee had nothing but an emotion-invoking word and some downright IDIOTIC ideas about how this country should deal with the world. LET'S BREAK AND BUY IRAN, SYRIA, LEBANON, RUSSIA, BRAZIL...THE WHOLE WORLD!

 

[kylejack]

I'm all about Ron Paul. But if I was an undecided voter, I'd honestly have to say Huckabee won the exchange.

No offense, but Ron Paul ducked part of the question of our obligation to the Iraqi people and the potential bloodbath by saying, "why should I believe you". It is a definite possibility. And even I, who have been against the war from the start, am a little leary about not caring what happens to the Iraqi people.

We DID, afterall, create this mess. There is no changing that. We do have a bit of an obligation to help the Iraqi people. Does that mean a troop presence? Maybe not. But it does paint Ron Paul as cold and selfish to not address it directly.

That being said, I still think troop withdrawal is the best and only solution to Iraq and all the other countries we are in. But he needs to have a response to what he will do if the radicals take over or Iran invades.

I don't know the perfect answer. Maybe simply saying that troop withdrawal is the best current solution because troops are not designed for police action. But maybe leave the door open for controlled strikes against the aggressor if a genocide begins to occur. I think if we did nothing to respond, it would severely damage the US reputation with the world (even more than it is now).

I hate that we created this mess and only Ron Paul can prevent us from getting into this situation in the future.

A perfect answer would have been something like:
"They don't even want us there. The prime minister said that they're ready to take over any time we want to leave. Why are our men and women dying for a country we harmed, a country that doesn't even want us there any longer?"

Selfish, you say? Selfish is to tell a mother her son has to go to Iraq and die because neo-conservatives made bad decisions. Selfish is to promote your own country's interests over the desires of a country that you've mistreated, a country that doesn't want you there anymore, and then tell that country its for their own good. After Abu Ghraib, public opinion in Iraq did a 180 and nearly everyone wanted the Americans to leave, so don't piss on the Iraqi's heads and tell them its raining.

 

[Paulitician]

If we should be the United States and not the "Divided States" isn't it easier to persaude 30% of the people instead of 70% who want us out of Iraq and realize that we went under false pretenses, it's not working, and it's only making us less safer? Sorry Huck, your argument doesn't hold up.