How will we make a living?

[adara7537]

Well I have to say after reading this thread is that since it's obvious this thread was really about the Venus Project I am lost on the point of why we wouldn't need free markets first? I mean I maybe confused, but we don't actually have free markets now..... I mean there is no way to achieve anything like that without free markets-isn't that part of the problem? If it was a truly free market wouldn't we already have some kind of alternative energy? It would seem to me that would be a logical step. For something like the Venus Project to work, it would take a loooooong time. I really like the idea of it and like I said I think it's were we or rather humankind will end up eventually. But to get there we need people to be able to have freedom and free markets and all of the stuff we all here already advocate.

That way they start to lose the resentment and the anger and greed and all of that. More wealthy people means more happy people and that means they just might start paying attention to the effects they and your their business choices have on other people and their enviroment.

Maybe I am just a dreamer

 

[Teenforpaul08]

There is something completely inhuman to capitalism and free-marketism. We are reliant on efficiency and the human aspect to work is reduced to simply pragmatism. There is something nice to see ma and pa open up shop and keep themselves in business like in South America (those days are pretty much gone here with franchises on every corner). I was raised in that environment and it's sad to watch it go simply because there is better efficiency.

If you think this growing business towards automation won't effect ordinary people, you haven't traveled much through the country. Corporations like Walmart do wipe out small towns and I've seen it first-hand.

Most business owners are stuck in niches trying to survive. Through greater efficiency they too will lose their jobs. I'm not romanticizing, I'm simply pointing out the human aspect to work which is lost. Crafts are scorned and are inefficient, but yet they make work what it is, something that only a human can do uniquely.

Eventually the things you fight for in corporate elitism will come back to bite you through open capitalism. No one can stop the gravitation of money to the rich in a total free-market. You can't help but go to a city like Rome and enjoy not seeing huge supermarkets or Walmarts.

Tell me I'm wrong, but give me a reasoned response using historical examples. And don't give me the wrong, in the type of gov't we have it's the best option, but in reality it's very flawed.

Exactly. This is the direction of technology. A system like free market can't sustain itself because technology, like automation, will disrupt the system (less jobs). We need a social change.
http://www.thevenusproject.com/intro_main/essay.htm

 

[Teenforpaul08]

Well I have to say after reading this thread is that since it's obvious this thread was really about the Venus Project I am lost on the point of why we wouldn't need free markets first? I mean I maybe confused, but we don't actually have free markets now..... I mean there is no way to achieve anything like that without free markets-isn't that part of the problem? If it was a truly free market wouldn't we already have some kind of alternative energy? It would seem to me that would be a logical step. For something like the Venus Project to work, it would take a loooooong time. I really like the idea of it and like I said I think it's were we or rather humankind will end up eventually. But to get there we need people to be able to have freedom and free markets and all of the stuff we all here already advocate.

That way they start to lose the resentment and the anger and greed and all of that. More wealthy people means more happy people and that means they just might start paying attention to the effects they and your their business choices have on other people and their enviroment.

Maybe I am just a dreamer

It won't take a long time. Going to space seemed impossible and we did it. It's only impossible to the uneducated.

 

[brandon]

Exactly. This is the direction of technology. A system like free market can't sustain itself because technology, like automation, will disrupt the system (less jobs). We need a social change.
http://www.thevenusproject.com/intro_main/essay.htm

Did you read any of my posts? I explained step by step how technology does not cause a net decrease in jobs (and so did many other people) yet you ignore our posts and keep asserting the same thing.

 

[Teenforpaul08]

Anyone notice as products are more and more mass produced that the demand for handmade and unique goods has gone up? Machines in the foreseeable future will not replace human labor, because they lack ingenuity, they lack creativity. There will always been a demand for items that are not mass produced.

If you actually care about jobs and machines replacing people- maybe more people should put their money where their mouth is- that's the point of a free market, you speak with your wallet. Stop buying the mass produced crap from Walmart.

You're retarded. Why? You make stupid assumptions. What hand-made products are going up in demand? Rofl. Almost everything created is machine-made or machine-supplemented. It's only a matter of time until more sophisticated machines come when they won't require human help.

 

[adara7537]

It won't take a long time. Going to space seemed impossible and we did it. It's only impossible to the uneducated.

Oh I am not implying it's impossible. But what's wrong with free markets? I mean we can't just leap into machines running the world. Wouldn't free markets get us closer to achieving that?

 

[Teenforpaul08]

Why are you so scared? Not smart enough to design the next generation of improved machines?

A future economy will require much less people because machines can do most of the work. Since population is going up, it's going to conflict. Then, your free market is screwed.

 

[Teenforpaul08]

I have read enough to know that I am not a libertarian...that's for sure. I am a Ron Paul republican but actually lean more towards Pat Buchanan these days. I post on this forum because I am a LIBERTY lover...I don't have to agree with ALL of Ron Paul's stances to be a LIBERTY LOVER. I am STILL active in trying to change hearts and minds. I am a PALEOCONSERVATIVE ..old republican. I am a Christian, I am for a MORAL society. I STILL say free markets only work if there is a MORAL SOCIETY. Thomas Paine...read Common Sense...read the section on Society vs Government. It's true...an immoral society FORCES government FORCE. I am NOT for machines taking jobs from decent hard working Americans. Never will be. TONES

You got it mixed up. A moral society cannot co-exist with the free market system. You HAVE to be immoral and unethical to be successful in a free market system.

 

[Teenforpaul08]

required reading before further discussion ...

http://freedom-school.com/money/how-...nomy-grows.pdf

Georgia boy you got nothing. I'd like to see an article about how free-market deals with job loss that goes to machines. And no, we can't dream up NEW jobs just because we feel like it.

 

[brandon]

I'd like to see an article about how free-market deals with job loss that goes to machines.

I POSTED THIS VERY ARTICLE A COUPLE PAGES BACK


ggrrrrrr u make me angry

 

[Teenforpaul08]

This is false assumption. Machines do not eliminate jobs. Certain jobs might go away but new ones are created. There is a whole chapter in the book Economics in One Lesson on this.

What new jobs are created?

A machine get rid of 1,000 people. They will need like 5 people to maintain the machine. 995 jobs lost permanantly. Think before you type.

Those stupid books doesn't deal with the future. It assumes that we are still living in the 1950's where every manufacturing plant needs people.

 

[brandon]

What new jobs are created?

A machine get rid of 1,000 people. They will need like 5 people to maintain the machine. 995 jobs lost permanantly. Think before you type.

Those stupid books doesn't deal with the future. It assumes that we are still living in the 1950's where every manufacturing plant needs people.

YOU DIDN"T EVEN READ THE ARTICLE

nnn

 

[acptulsa]

You got it mixed up. A moral society cannot co-exist with the free market system. You HAVE to be immoral and unethical to be successful in a free market system.

Dude.

Start: I am a moral and ethical person. Let's assume you are a moral and ethical person. I offer to trade you a bushel of wheat for a side of beef. We do so. Now, what in the name of all that is holy is immoral, unethical or less than free will about that market transaction?!

Two: Refresh your memory on the old saw/song about Jawn Henry and his race with the steam drill. People in those times couldn't imagine how we'd have full emplyoment today. Couldn't imagine it. You, like they, lack imagination. They had never, after all, even considered the possibility of a career in IT.

Three: If hand-made items will never sell again, then how does Rolls Royce still get over a quarter million each for hand-made cars? Now, who exactly is a retard?

Stop being arrogant and you'll get pwned a lot less.

 

[OferNave]

Anyone trying to argue with Teenforpaul08 is wasting their time. He's a fanatic. He already wasted a bunch of my time and others in another thread a few days ago that went to 15 pages before we all just left.

The only winning strategy is not to play.

 

[brandon]

Anyone trying to argue with Teenforpaul08 is wasting their time. He's a fanatic. He already wasted a bunch of my time and others in another thread a few days ago that went to 15 pages before we all just left.

The only winning strategy is not to play.

Good advice, I'm out.

 

[Teenforpaul08]

Tones, we live a lifestyle currently that would be absolutely impossible without machines. This is the key, so please think and listen: The short term loss of jobs caused by these inventions was more than offset by the increased number of workers needed to support the new, higher level of living the inventions caused.

We had no clue we wanted computers, until we had modern plumbing. We had no clue we wanted jets until we had clothing manufacturing machines and the combine. This is because we used to be busy simply getting food, clothing, water, and shelter for ourselves.

Perhaps in the future, machines will cause only half of the workforce to be required to supply all of the things we currently enjoy. The other half will work on new things we havn't even imagined yet, and we will enjoy a yet higher standard of living. This is what we have seen throughout history.

this is what I wanted you to see. Very nice observation.

We need to treat machines as a way to relieve us of labor, that's what it's really there for.

 

[powerofreason]

The only winning strategy is not to play.

good movie

 

[pacelli]

I POSTED THIS VERY ARTICLE A COUPLE PAGES BACK


ggrrrrrr u make me angry

Don't you get it? He's a troll that registered in Nov 07. He is intentionally baiting this board and wants to make people angry. Calm down and remember, don't feed the trolls. Eventually trolls will create suicide machines.

 

[georgiaboy]

I don't know what the Venus Project is,

But I hope to God that it's SHIPPING Teenforpaul08 TO VENUS!!!!

 

[georgiaboy]

along with a truckload of books on legitimate economic theory.