How Was Government Funded before 1913 and IRS?

[vodalian]

I'm completely shocked that there's people out there who believe that the government is responsible for peaceful technological advances in the market, and I thought I heard it all. I really hope this guy is trolling.

 

[Sola_Fide]

ok then, you take liberty, I'll take convenience, and safety.

Oh boy....

And we wonder why we are headfirst into tyranny and bankruptcy when we have people like this in the country.^^^

You have to really congratulate the state-educators. They have done a bang up job for many many years.

 

[susano]

tariffs. high, intermediate and low tariffs. period.
the civil war and the spanish-american war had
personal income taxes before wilson did in 1913.

Who was taxed and how? Were those income taxes short term?

 

[Anti Federalist]

ok then, you take liberty, I'll take convenience, and safety.

What decision did I make for you or am stopping you from making?

No, I am not forcing you to live in a system where I am in harmony with. I am not stopping you from moving away. The system landed on me, and it did on you, I am happy to stay and perpetuate it, you are free to change it or move away, whatever works for you.

I can't change it when too many people think like you.

Exactly my point: who the fuck are you to tell me to GTFO?

I just want to be left alone.

YOU are the one supporting a system that feels the need to all up in my shit 24/7.

I call that "market demand". If the market demanded otherwise, why isn't it otherwise? You think politicians can't be bribed to do things your way if you had enough money?

Which is why I don't necessarily agree with the "pure democracy" of the market.

Nor do I believe that just because an organization may be private, does not mean that it cannot be tyrannical.

 

[GeorgiaAvenger]

Alcohol taxes accounted for 70% of federal revenues before the income tax

source-Ken Burns prohibition documentary

 

[DamianTV]

I guess I've never really understood how the government was funded before the Fed and IRS was implemented. I haven't had much of a chance to research it. I don't want to make assumptions. Help me out here. Thanks.

Prior to 1913 and Income Tax and Prohibition, the Federal Govt got 1/3rd of its funds from taxes on Alcohol. Keep in mind the Federal Govt was very small in comparison to what it is today with every alpabet soup bureacracy and countless employees and contractors. Basically, teh way it should have stayed.

 

[Gumba of Liberty]

Always the control freaks wrecking everything.

That 80% of the taxes that the south was a source of - are you saying that the south imported enough products that they collected that much revenue?

Yes. The South imported physical capital from Europe while the North exported their finished goods to Europe. The South paid 4/5ths of all tariffs during a time when tariffs were the only source of Federal Revenue. Add to the situation the explosive population growth in the North, The newly founded Republican Party's objection to the expansion of slavery, and the growing irrelevance of the Federal Government in the eyes of the American people, it comes as no surprise that the South wanted to part ways. But what the new Republican Party really wanted when they nominated Lincoln in 1860 was what Henry Clay, a disciple of Alexander Hamilton and hero of Abraham Lincoln, wanted when he called for "The American System". High Tariffs, Internal Improvements (Federal Subsides), and a National (Central) Bank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_System_(economic_plan)

 

[aGameOfThrones]

I can't change it when too many people think like you.

Exactly my point: who the fuck are you to tell me to GTFO?

I just want to be left alone.

YOU are the one supporting a system that feels the need to all up in my shit 24/7.



Which is why I don't necessarily agree with the "pure democracy" of the market.

Nor do I believe that just because an organization may be private, does not mean that it cannot be tyrannical.

Hmm...


"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number.The latter are surly curmudgeons,suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort." -Robert A. Heinlein

 

[susano]

We are not in a free market--it is the mere illusion of a free market. In a truly free market government would not be involved in it. The regulators would be the people. The only role the government would have in a free market is collecting, Duties, Imposts and Excises from foreigners.

Help me out here. A duty is on an imported item, paid by the end user/retail buyer, where a tariff is collected from the importer? On a tariff, is it billed and collected at the entry points, such as a shipyard or airport?

What is an impost?

Excise is a sales tax, right - like on gasoline? Or can a sales tax be applied on top of the excise tax?

 

[susano]

Remember, early on our nation was largely agrarian. My grandparents lived on a farm, with my grandfather supplementing the income with odd jobs such as helping to build a nearby flood-control lake and driving a school bus. My grandmother worked on the farm and one of her "pet projects" was raising turkeys.

Here are somethings you might like to check out, a timeline of the industrial revolution in america:

http://www.cottontimes.co.uk/timeline1.html
http://www.cottontimes.co.uk/timeline2.htm

Your mentioning the industrial revolution reminded me of something. About a year ago, I saw a site that had photos of people in Halloween costumes, at the turn of the century. In the text, it mentioned that people really got into the costumes that were old fashioned because many were upset and depressed about the industrial revolution. It was sort of how people, now, get into vintage clothing and appliances, trying to preserve something from a time when life was simpler. It really struck me as very sad. In many ways, it must have been terrible time as industry trashed nature.

I just ran across this interesting link, last night. Haven't read much of it but I think you may like it:

http://thedeliberateagrarian.blogspot.com/2008/09/some-things.html

 

[susano]

Of course Women worked

And were full time mothers and homemakers which progressives denigrated as somehow not counting.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Help me out here. A duty is on an imported item, paid by the end user/retail buyer, where a tariff is collected from the importer? On a tariff, is it billed and collected at the entry points, such as a shipyard or airport?

What is an impost?

Excise is a sales tax, right - like on gasoline? Or can a sales tax be applied on top of the excise tax?

Duties:

Customs duty is a kind of indirect tax which is realized on goods of international trade. In economic sense, it is also a kind of consumption tax. Duties levied by the government in relation to imported items is referred to as import duty. In the same vein, duties realized on export consignments is called export duty. Tariff which is actually a list of commodities along with the leviable rate (amount) of Customs duty is popularly understood as Customs duty.

Excises:

Unlike an ad valorem, an excise is not a function of the value of the product being taxed. Excise taxes are based on the quantity, not the value, of product purchased. For example, in the United States, the Federal government imposes an excise tax of 18.4 cents per U.S. gallon (4.86¢/L) of gasoline, while state governments levy an additional 8 to 28 cents per U.S. gallon.

Imposts are just another term for tariffs, either import or export.

 

[susano]

I'll take technology, convenience, and surveillance cameras, you enjoy your Delorean (deluded) ride, keep in mind, the EMP might disable your way back.

That world that you want exists, right now, in Singapore. I have a friend who just spent several months there. It's extremely modern, spic and span clean, and very controlled. Get out of line and the consequences are harsh. It's very safe. It's a perfect Stepford world. She said it has a beautiful veneer. Kind of like the Truman Show. Sounds like you would love it. What are you waiting for?

 

[susano]

I think I've had better days. But I've learned to love life every step of the way, and deal with what I dislike. I understand I can never go back, but I can always make tomorrow more like a day that I remember as good. I don't ever believe one day is best based on WHEN.

Odd because you sound so bitter.

 

[susano]

Alcohol taxes accounted for 70% of federal revenues before the income tax

source-Ken Burns prohibition documentary

That is astounding!

 

[Gumba of Liberty]

That is astounding!

Your astonishment is based on fiction. Liquor taxes were 30 to 40% of Federal Revenue.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Hmm...


"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number.The latter are surly curmudgeons,suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort." -Robert A. Heinlein

Awesome.

+rep

And that makes me a perfect neighbor.

 

[susano]

Yes. The South imported physical capital from Europe while the North exported their finished goods to Europe. The South paid 4/5ths of all tariffs during a time when tariffs were the only source of Federal Revenue. Add to the situation the explosive population growth in the North, The newly founded Republican Party's objection to the expansion of slavery, and the growing irrelevance of the Federal Government in the eyes of the American people, it comes as no surprise that the South wanted to part ways. But what the new Republican Party really wanted when they nominated Lincoln in 1860 was what Henry Clay, a disciple of Alexander Hamilton and hero of Abraham Lincoln, wanted when he called for "The American System". High Tariffs, Internal Improvements (Federal Subsides), and a National (Central) Bank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_System_(economic_plan)

Annual Message of 1815 (Seven Points)

* Funds for national defense
* Frigates for the Navy
* A standing army and federal control of the militia
* Federal aid for building roads and canals
* A protective tariff to encourage manufacturers
* Re-establishing the National Bank
* Federal assumption of some state debt

Wow, talk about a serious detour from the constitution! I admit to being a protectionist, at heart, but I can see where these policies were a beginning on our road to hell.

 

[susano]

Hmm...


"The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number.The latter are surly curmudgeons,suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort." -Robert A. Heinlein

I would take issue with what Heinlein said. It's always in cities where people stand by by while someone gets stabbed to death. City people are the most "domesticated", if you will. In the country, get stuck in a ditch and some redneck with a tow rope and a truck will always stop and pull you out.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I would take issue with what Heinlein said. It's always in cities where people stand by by while someone gets stabbed to death. City people are the most "domesticated", if you will. In the country, get stuck in a ditch and some redneck with a tow rope and a truck will always stop and pull you out.

It's those same city folk that will stand by that are full of "big ideas" and smarmy, glad handing, shit eating grin, platitudes.