How to TAKE your freedom back

[PierzStyx]

We beat back all rebellions? That's news to me.

Yet we, or rather our puppet, remain in control. That control is not threatened. And I don't know if you know this, we don't care if civilians die.

 

[PierzStyx]

Yet we, or rather our puppet, remain in control. That control is not threatened. And I don't know if you know this, we don't care if civilians die.

And 235 deaths is pissant to the raging battles we had with Sadir's Army et al. Yet we still came out on top.

And none of this disproves my original post that if anything Iraq proves any secessionist state would be squashed.

 

[TheTexan]

Yet we, or rather our puppet, remain in control. That control is not threatened. And I don't know if you know this, we don't care if civilians die.

These people that are fighting now, will continue to fight so long as that puppet remains in control. This is a fight that we cannot win. Eventually, these people will get what they want.

 

[TheTexan]

Also, you're still operating on this assumption that Secession means an instant invasion.

Mainstream America actually has a decent amount of respect for secession, at least in my experience. The people I've asked (non-Ron Paul people, mind you) basically said they didn't have a problem with it, as long as the people seceding tried going through the proper channels first, which we have, and were properly represented (which we aren't, yet, this is what we need to work on).

The Lakotah attempt had a number of problems with that latter requirement, btw.

 

[shelskov]

Seasteading is more feasible.

That being said, I think the Free State Project is the way to go, no secession needed. Gradual but systematic is the best approach. Secession would be too much too fast, would attract too much negative attention, and would conjure images of the civil war. The average American is very uneducated on what that war was about and why it was won/lost. That isn't necessarily something we want people to associate the liberty movement with.

 

[TheTexan]

Seasteading is more feasible.

Not really. Prohibitively expensive. Plus, there's no (current) way to be self sustained at sea, at least not in the way would be required to have a meaningful existence.

That being said, I think the Free State Project is the way to go, no secession needed. Gradual but systematic is the best approach. Secession would be too much too fast, would attract too much negative attention, and would conjure images of the civil war. The average American is very uneducated on what that war was about and why it was won/lost. That isn't necessarily something we want people to associate the liberty movement with.

Gradual secession, instant secession, it's all the same to me. Nullification is a form of secession. Even the act of moving to NH for the FSP is an act of secession, in a sense.

The important thing though is to separate ourselves from the people who have brought us to this point. Whatever form that takes, I'm all for it.

 

[TheTexan]

From Federalist Papers #7, arguing against the right of secession

From the view they have exhibited of this part of the subject, this conclusion is to be drawn, that America, if not connected at all, or only by the feeble tie of a simple league, offensive and defensive, would, by the operation of such jarring alliances, be gradually entangled in all the pernicious labyrinths of European politics and wars

Hey dipshit, look at your Federation now, you happy?

Fucking Hamilton.

 

[MRK]

I wont be missing anymore meals.

I'm reporting 5 of you every month to the DHS for the bounty on insurrectionists. This way I will have a steady supplemental income to buy me enough food so that I am fit enough for when I get drafted to go door to door to uproot you terrorists.

 

[TheTexan]

A friend of mine, who I have been educating in the ways of Liberty for over a year now, and who had earlier pledged to vote for Ron Paul, said Obama will win this next election because he is the "Champion of Freedom."

He was totally serious when he said it.

 

[Jingles]

Microsecession FTW!

Live like there is a no state!

 

[GuerrillaXXI]

You seem to think just wanting it will make it happen. The ENTIRE Indian nation rebelled with Gandhi. That is not something that will happen in America. To many people want the nanny state to take care of them to give it up.

And the Revolution was added greatly by the limits of 18th century technology. The British couldn't just drop and army off in New York. It took 6 months to get across the Atlantic. Today it would take a few hours to move an army across the world. The entire US Army would be at the door step of any rebellious state within a day-at most. And that isn't even taking into account the overwhelming technology and economic forces that the US can wield that Britain couldn't back then. Or the fact that any group rebelling against the US will also have to deal with the entire continent of Europe in teh form of NATO. There would be no French coming to help us fight back.

I'm willing to die, but not for a stupid, unwinnable reason.

Don't forget the flip side of that technological progress you mention: the technology and weaponry in the hands of today's armed citizens is much more potent than what was available to the Americans who rebelled against the British. This is partly why the US military had such a hard time in Iraq and is still having trouble in Afghanistan. The American colonists didn't have sniper rifles or know how to make IEDs.

Having said that, it's true that no one can stand up to the US military in open combat. Guerrilla combat would even the odds greatly and perhaps even skew things in favor of the guerrillas, but a secession attempt would require something closer to open combat. If there were a popular civilian uprising across the US, the military would not be able to handle it, since it couldn't bomb the hell out of its own cities or kill indiscriminately and expect to preserve the government it was fighting for. But if all of those involved in the uprising were confined to a separate territory, that territory could simply be carpet-bombed with impunity.

 

[Vanilluxe]

Secession is unnecessary, look at Syria and other places, education and the use of technology shall inflame rebellion across the states and people shall demand liberty.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

I'll secede if we get to have anti-matter weapons.

 

[Lothario]

how many people/weapons would we need to defend ourselves against the US Government?

 

[mrsat_98]

i checked other cause I all ready did.

 

[TheTexan]

i checked other cause I all ready did.

+rep

 

[Keith and stuff]

How to take back freedom? Move to New Hampshire (the easiest state to get elected and the easiest state to create change once elected). Get elected. Create change but writing a bill to reduce the size or scope of the government. Get the bill passed.

 

[TheTexan]

How to take back freedom? Move to New Hampshire and secede

Fixed that for you.

Bump

 

[TheTexan]

I'm increasingly convinced that the best thing to do is find a completely uninhabited, or very sparsely populated, island or island territory, and bring our belongings and modern technology there. Devloping infrastructure would take a while, but we're hardy folk in general. I think we could survive a three or four year period of lacking things like shopping centers and movie theaters.

I'm down. Any ideas on where we could do this?

 

[cbrons]

Frustration is reaching a high point on this forum, I can see it by all of the very liberty minded threads.

I don't know if many of us are still ticked since Super Tuesday and realize it's time to start thinking locally, or what. The time is, indeed, now.

+rep OP.

Local focus is all we can do - and push nullification