How To Stop The Gay Marriage Tidal Wave Before It Is Too Late

[TaftFan]

My RedState diary post.

http://www.redstate.com/freedomrepu...ay-marriage-tidal-wave-before-it-is-too-late/

 

[56ktarget]

Why do you want to deny people the freedom to marry whoever they like? Are you against liberty or something?

 

[Petar]

Maybe allowing gay weirdos to participate in marriage is going to be the precise thing to make people realize that marriage should not be such a function of government in the first place.

Besides, as long as it is a function of government, then it's only fair that gay weirdos be allowed to participate as well...

 

[TaftFan]

Maybe allowing gay weirdos to participate in marriage is going to be the precise thing to make people realize that marriage should not be such a function of government in the first place.

Besides, as long as it is a function of government, then it's only fair that gay weirdos be allowed to participate as well...

When it gets to that point, there will be no chance of getting government out of marriage.

 

[TaftFan]

Why do you want to deny people the freedom to marry whoever they like? Are you against liberty or something?

How are you not banned yet?

 

[fr33]

I get what you are saying and do support it but your phrasing is just propaganda. Getting the government out of labeling and licensing relationships as marriage, then people can choose to define their relationships as marriage if they want to use that label. But what you don't seem to understand is that the majority of people interested in stopping gays from marrying don't want that decision to be in the individuals' hands. They want to use the government to approve and deny that label based on their own preference. Licensing of marriage didn't just occur for no reason. It happened because people want to ban others from acting in a way they don't approve of. Why fight such a losing battle if you don't care if gays act like they are married regardless?

 

[Petar]

When it gets to that point, there will be no chance of getting government out of marriage.

Seems to me that having a government body selectively restricting marriage to a few is even worse than just allowing any stupid gay weirdo to also get married.

Either way, people need to start demanding that government remove itself from the marriage business.

If the catalyst to make that happen will not consist of gay marriage administered by the state, then what form will it take exactly?

 

[TaftFan]

I get what you are saying and do support it but your phrasing is just propaganda. Getting the government out of labeling and licensing relationships as marriage, then people can choose to define their relationships as marriage if they want to use that label. But what you don't seem to understand is that the majority of people interested in stopping gays from marrying don't want that decision to be in the individuals' hands. They want to use the government to approve and deny that label based on their own preference. Licensing of marriage didn't just occur for no reason. It happened because people want to ban others from acting in a way they don't approve of. Why fight such a losing battle if you don't care if gays act like they are married regardless?

Well, yeah, I am framing it for a socially conservative audience. I understand not all of them connect with the individualist message, which is why I proposed a unity movement between them and libertarians.

 

[TaftFan]

Seems to me that having a government body selectively restricting marriage to a few is even worse than just allowing any stupid gay weirdo to also get married.

Either way, people need to start demanding that government remove itself from the marriage business.

If the catalyst to make that happen will not consist of gay marriage administered by the state, then what form will it take exactly?

What I am arguing is that social conservatives and libertarians can form a coalition at the state level and convert a state legislature. Others would hopefully follow.

The pressure forcing this to happen is that fact that courts are systematically ruling in favor of gay marriage, so this is the only way to stop it.

 

[jkob]

I definitely agree about getting the government out of marriage but that doesn't justify the government discriminating against homosexual couples, they're two different issues.

 

[libertariantexas]

My RedState diary post.

http://www.redstate.com/freedomrepu...ay-marriage-tidal-wave-before-it-is-too-late/

The government shouldn't be in the marriage business at all, but if they insist on controlling it, they should treat everyone equally.

FYI, on the slim chance that you aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer, you should realize this battle is all over but the mopping up. A certain percentage of Republicans, who choose to continue to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic, haven't figure it out yet.

Use your head, kid. Get on a lifeboat and stop fighting hopeless (and wrong) battles...

 

[fr33]

Well, yeah, I am framing it for a socially conservative audience. I understand not all of them connect with the individualist message, which is why I proposed a unity movement between them and libertarians.

Call me the negative one but I'll say it again; marriage licensing exists because people want it to exist. Conservatives just as much as liberals.


Hell, just look at this thread: Kansas wants sperm donor to pay child support - WTF??? You'll find that many here aren't interested in private contracts and instead are willing to use the govt to promote their own morals even if it means doing away with things like adoption and the donation of bodily fluids like sperm or blood. Too many people want to run other peoples lives including many that claim to be part of a liberty movement.

Today the idea of gay marriage is popular and it's going to happen. Tomorrow we could find divorces being banned if the perception changes.

I find it more useful to live my life and be willing to tell these authoritarians, no matter where they come from, to fuck off and get out of my life.

 

[dillo]

Oh the small government conservatives

If the tenth amendment is important than what justification can you have for the federal government overruling a state that decides to license gay couples?

 

[DamianTV]

The Rights of Straight People end where the Equal Rights of Gay People begin.

Making one or the other pay or participate in something they do not want to be a party to, now thats a different story. Marriage in and of itself is Simple. But when Govt is introduced, you have Regulations to contend with. Insurance. Property Rights. Etc. Thats the monkey wrench in the system of Marriage that everyone is opposed to, and it comes from Govt, not Gays.

 

[pcosmar]

When it gets to that point, there will be no chance of getting government out of marriage.

There is no chance of that now. If there was opposition,, people would have been marching in the streets 50 years ago. Long before it became a "gay" issue.

Fact is,, the same people that persecuted the Mormons for Polygamy,, like to have the government bat to beat others with.

 

[pcosmar]

Well, yeah, I am framing it for a socially conservative audience. \.

CUT The Crap

Social Conservative? Call them Social Controllers,, that is what they are.
The same mindset that pushed Prohibition and Anti-Polygamy Laws.

Social Controllers..They love registering things and forbidding things they don't approve of.
They love the government bat to beat others with.

The same shit that pushes registration of Guns,, Registration of Cars, Registration of Dogs..
Registration of everything..

Push an issue,, or a bill to get the Government OUT of everyone's life,, ENTIRELY.
Or STFU.

 

[compromise]

Social conservatives have pretty much lost this battle at this point. The moment Utah fell was the nail in the coffin.

Better to focus on more important issues.

 

[juleswin]

One thing most conservatives, libertarians and miniarchist agree with on the function of govt is that of enforcing contracts signed between adults. Seeing as all marriage is the contract between 2 or more people(and yes I included polygamy in the mix). Now you can get me to go with govt not enforcing some contract but what I will not tolerate is govt not just enforcing some contracts but forcing people who already have a contract signed into a govt default contract like in the case of the Kansas lesbian couple.

Also when you have gay, single people paying taxes that fund the marriage benefits, you will always find people rightfully complain about it. So if govt doesn't want to get out of marriage, then it should stop giving any kind of favors(tax benefits, subsidies etc) to married couples. Just recognize and enforce the contracts with fees paid by people obtaining the license and nobody 99% of the complaint by gay people will go away.

 

[libertyvidz]

+rep on your efforts for two reasons. 1) You've got the right approach to the issue of gay marriage and 2) You've figured out that liberty activism on the net = going into hostile territory like "Redstate" and instead of trying to convert them to being non-interventionist on foreign policy, you've trying to help them with an issue important (maybe) to them. I singed up at Redstate just to comment on your post there.

 

[libertyvidz]

Social conservatives have pretty much lost this battle at this point. The moment Utah fell was the nail in the coffin.

Better to focus on more important issues.

I think you're missing the point of what TaftFan is trying to do. It's not about "stopping gay marriage". It's about building bridges with a needed voter block in the GOP primaries by helping them see how the only possible way to "stop" gay marriage is to start getting the government out of marriage. I mean, that is still an overall goal of libertarianism right? Reduce the government footprint on everything including marriage? Some people here have taken the "Hey, let's help the gays get their equal rights and worry about reducing the role of government later." Well, that's great, if your target audience is liberals. But if your target audience is conservatives, giving them a reason to support your efforts is a good thing whether or not those efforts actually pay off.