How exactly could we have space exploration/moon landings without government?

MGreen said:
The part in bold undermines your entire argument. To criticize anarchy because the Founders, as brilliant as they were, believed in limited government is faulty, because the idea of anarchy was very much undeveloped. This is especially true for market anarchy because, as you said, economic theory was just starting to be formed and understood.

It could probably be argued that, without the Founders, individualism and laissez-faire would not have had the movements they did in the 19th century. We may as well respond to your original question with: "Well, Thomas Jefferson didn't fund space exploration, so clearly NASA is bad."
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Well T J did bail out Napoleon on his Rothschild debts, purchased Louisiana, etc. at a fire sale price. Too bad no one had 'splained to the inhabitants that France owned and had sold them. :p :rolleyes:
 
Danke said:
What are you talking about? One can't directly compete against delivery of the mail. Just look what they did to Lysander Spooner when he tried.
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What the fuck are you talking about? Do UPS, FedEx, and DHL not exist?? They can deliver packages, freight, and envelopes, just not letters. Letters are far less profitable for businesses to take on anyway compared to delivering freight and package orders.
 
forsmant said:
Adam Smith's book The Wealth of Nations, was not the first economics book written. If it were why would he reference so many other books while witting his own? Have you read any of the book or just asserting the usual lie that you were told by your history teachers?
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Uhm...The Wealth of Nations was the first economics book written and gave birth to capitalism.
 
socialize_me said:
What the fuck are you talking about? Do UPS, FedEx, and DHL not exist?? They can deliver packages, freight, and envelopes, just not letters. Letters are far less profitable for businesses to take on anyway compared to delivering freight and package orders.
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The American mail system is a monopoly still, as it is currently illegal for any of their main competitors - FedEx, UPs, Roadway, etc - to offer first class mail service.
 
tremendoustie said:
That's great, then you can send your money voluntarily -- I will send some too, for certain space programs. I am sure you wouldn't want to forcibly take the money of someone who is opposed to it though, right? So taxation isn't really the way to go here ...
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Should I post this again?

I wouldn't mind paying taxes for....
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socialize_me said:
Uhm...The Wealth of Nations was the first economics book written and gave birth to capitalism.
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It is clear that you have never opened the book as it references economics books published in 1696, 1729, and many other books. These three books and essays are referenced in the first chapter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fable_of_the_Bees
http://socserv.mcmaster.ca/econ/ugcm/3ll3/locke/consid.txt
http://www.archive.org/details/p1essayuponmoney00harruoft

The Industrial Revolution gave birth to capitalism. History is very expansive and public school did not devote much time to it. Therefore it was generalized and full of holes.
 
How exactly could we have space exploration/moon landings without government?
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A little known FACT for your consideration.

The first space ship was a private Company. The first American Astronaut was a test pilot.
x15_01.jpg


The "Space Program " was not about exploration, but as a show piece for Military hardware.
ICBM
Private exploration was forbidden until very recently, and in a short time with a fraction of the cost was successful.

The Facts speak for themselves.
 
socialize_me said:
I'm anxious in being enlightened for this topic. I understand some quasi-space travel is going on privately, costing millions for individuals to take part in it, but how exactly would space travel work under privatization?? I mean, it's been almost 40 years since the government subsidized human landing on the moon...it's 2008 and we're just starting to get billionaires to fly a couple miles outside of our atmosphere. Who knows how long it will take for the private sector to adopt space travel to be as popular as going to Europe or Australia for vacation, but it seems as if it's very, very far off. Wasn't NASA a good thing??
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a good portion of the technology that the free market exapnds upon today came from federal dollars especially NASA and the military. hell, even videogames came about because of military spending. while i'm not saying we owe a debt to the federal government, a lot of people seem to forget that the free market never developed the technology free market advocates celebrate as the miracle of the free market.
 
Flash said:
Should I post this again?
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That is the point, if it were privatized then they would need INVESTORS. If it is ran by our shitty government then all they need is tax payer dollars and as many as they might need. No accountability and what about those who could CARE LESS about what is out there. Why should that person have to toss money towards a program he or she doesn't believe in or care to fund?

Don't cut the program itself but cut the government out of the program and get rid of the secrecy behind it. The only need for secrecy is because of weapons or surveillance or something else. I doubt we would keep a "new planet" secret but we would keep a satellite secret or a weapons test and so on.
 
newyearsrevolution08 said:
That is the point, if it were privatized then they would need INVESTORS. If it is ran by our shitty government then all they need is tax payer dollars and as many as they might need. No accountability and what about those who could CARE LESS about what is out there. Why should that person have to toss money towards a program he or she doesn't believe in or care to fund?

Don't cut the program itself but cut the government out of the program and get rid of the secrecy behind it. The only need for secrecy is because of weapons or surveillance or something else. I doubt we would keep a "new planet" secret but we would keep a satellite secret or a weapons test and so on.
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Dude, how in the hell can you expect to live in a country where you agree with EVERYTHING the government does? How the fuck does a government please 300+ million people? Do we have annual questionnaires seeing what kind of tax should be placed upon you if any? Do you people live in reality? Have you read the Constitution? Congress has the power to levy taxes. Does it say anywhere that you have to agree with it?? NO! That's why you ELECT the people who agree with your anti-tax policies, or you can drag your ass into the courthouse and RUN for office.

It's funny, you all most likely hate democracies and support a republic or anarchy (which is just moronic), yet you say you should have a voice in determining whether or not taxes should be collected on you for certain programs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that democracy itself??? Where everybody's voice is equal, where everybody gets to choose what they want?? Quit bitching about taxes, I'm really tired of it. I understand if you're against the income tax and want lower taxes--I'm with yah--but to post crap saying 'You can't tax me if I don't agree with it' is complete bullshit. You elect representatives that align themselves with your beliefs. If neither candidate espouses your platform, then here's an idea, RUN FOR OFFICE!

You anti-tax people are absolutely unbelievable. It's funny because most of you support a Republic, yet your explanation for not having taxes levied upon you suggests nothing less than Democracy. Hypocritical, moronic, and very unenlightening. I know you're trying to explore this supposedly intellectual and revolutionary view of government, but you just look like an idiot in the process. Move to Somalia if you don't want to be taxed and see how great it is.
 
socialize_me said:
It's Constitutional. Get over it.
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Then why didn't you say that in the first place, instead of:
socialize_me said:
What the fuck are you talking about?
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Looks like showing you were wrong is "what the fuck" I was talking about.

socialize_me said:
A great example of privatization of a government function is the postal service. ...

The private sector has proven to utterly suck balls at postal services.
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THE

UNCONSTITUTIONALITY

OF THE

LAWS OF CONGRESS,

PROHIBITING

PRIVATE MAILS.

BY LYSANDER SPOONER
 
powerofreason said:
That doesn't make it RIGHT you idiot
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Then amend it or run for office you idiot.

Perhaps you haven't noticed: This is Ron Paul Forums. Ron Paul ran supporting the Constitution. It's funny because my original question surrounding NASA received responses saying "It's unconstitutional" as if implying everything not mentioned in the Constitution is wrong. So now I'm confused with your moronic statement--if it's stated in the Constitution it's not right?? So you're espousing something Ron Paul never supported. He likes the Constitution. Now you're saying it's not right to support it yet simultaneously criticizing my post by saying NASA is unconstitutional?

Seems like the bailout argument. It's evil unless I'm getting a cut. The Constitution only applies to YOU when YOU think it's right. You disagree with NASA and because it's not in the Constitution, it's unconstitutional. You disagree with taxes and because it is in the Constitution, you think it's not right. Unfuckingbelievable.
 
socialize_me said:
Then amend it or run for office you idiot.
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:rolleyes: According to the SCOTUS, the gov't can do whatever they want so long as it involves commerce. Thus, the gov't could, under the current interpretation of the Constitution, nationalize every business in America.

Pretty sure we don't need to amend the Constitution to know that the bill should be voted against.
 
Danke said:
Then why didn't you say that in the first place, instead of:


Looks like showing you were wrong is "what the fuck" I was talking about.




THE

UNCONSTITUTIONALITY

OF THE

LAWS OF CONGRESS,

PROHIBITING

PRIVATE MAILS.

BY LYSANDER SPOONER
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Ben Franklin liked the federal postal service. It's specifically enumerated in the Constitution. I'll side with the Founders before I listen to whatever L. Spooner has to say. I've read plenty of Rockwell saying private roads would be good--as if hundreds of thousands of American companies across the nation would spontaneously add building roads into its capital goods industry. It's complete bullshit and would take us back to riding horses. There's no way in hell anyone would voluntarily build roads and maintain them if it meant saving only $0.18/gallon. The roads in the colonies sucked balls big time which is why we had that specifically enumerated in it for Congress to "post roads".

What you guys are suggesting is privatization of roads and postal services even though it's spelled out in the Constitution for the government to do. So exactly why are you people posting in a Ron Paul Message Board??? Shouldn't you be over at anarchyforums.com?? I mean you guys don't even support things that have been in the Constitution since it was written!!
 
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