How do we convince Americans Neocon Foreign Policy is Wrong?

[Son_of_Liberty90]

With the Brussels attack, it brings back to light problems of dealing with mass fears of "WE NEED SURVEILLANCE" to stop these kind of attacks from happening.

People want to feel safe, and Neocons tout interventionism as ways to keep us safe. By intervening "over there" we don't have to worry about them coming here.

Also, we don't have to worry about leaving a "vaccuum" for terror.

Obviously that is not true.

So how to convince?

My take is: Foreign intervention stretches our military thin. We have bloated intelligence and have harder time detecting threats.

We need smart intelligence, not sucking in every little piece.

Why, just the other day, I overheard a conversation where someone was blaming Apple for not cooperaiting with the FBI to unlock the phone, and thats why we are not safe.

Facepalm, facepalm.

 

[acptulsa]

We have to be engaged abroad to be safe at home is a sales line for imperialism. It's an excuse for mucking around in the affairs of others. It's an excuse for trying to steal what good Christians would trade for.

We stayed out of World War II until Japan brought it to us. Then and only then did we find the motivation to go clear across the Pacific and kick their asses. People who stay home and mind their own business don't have people traveling halfway across the world to kick their asses, unless those travelers are imperialists. And defending your home against imperialists is easier and more effective than trying to conquer those imperialists on their home turf.

In short, defense really is done at home. What is done abroad is offense. Now, some will say that the best defense is a good offense. And I say tell it to Finland, which could never have defeated the Soviet Union by invading it, but did manage to repulse the giant throughout WWII.

 

[presence]

By intervening "over there" we don't have to worry about them coming here.

By swatting the hornet's nest out of the tree,
you might get chased all the way back the fuck home
and your family might get stung a few times as well.

 

[Libertas Aut Mortis]

Play on Jingoism, and make Isolationism out to be the most Pro-American position there is.

I'm guessing this is the best way to reach a Trump Supporter:

"Hey Jimbo, whatcha think bout 'dem towel heads"

"Well, I think we outta bomb the hell out of em and take all der oilz."

"No way Jimbo, those savages aren't worth our time. Better to let em just kill each other."

"No Libertas, they be blowin up airports and stuffs, we gotta stop em, they're evil"

"Jimbo, duh, they're just like the rest of the non-'Muricans. Dumb. But why don't we let them good for nothin european socialists or frenchies deal with their own problems for once. I'm gettin sick an tired of savin their asses all the time".

"Yeassir, it's about time that europe bombs the hell out of the middle east, why do we have to do it?"

"Thats right Jimbo, thats right."

 

[John117]

Point out the trillions of dollars and countless lives wasted to protect nations that do nation for us, point out that "other nations" are not entitled to our protection.

 

[jmdrake]

Actually, it's kind of already happened to some extent. The top to GOP contenders, love them or hate them, have been pushing non interventionist ideas whether they believe them or not. In the most recent town hall, both Trump and Cruz said we shouldn't be trying to take out Assad in Syria. Both are on record saying either that we never should have gone into Iraq in the first place or we should have gotten out sooner. You mentioned "smart surveillance"? Cruz was asked at the town hall "How can we stay safe without giving up our privacy?" To that Cruz answered "We shouldn't be scooping up everybody's data. Instead we should be looking at radical Islam. The Obama administration knew that Nidal Hasan was communicating with a radical cleric about whether or not attacking his fellow soldiers okay. MPs should have taken him away in handcuffs."

Here's the problem. Trump and Cruz both leave a lot to be desired. And because of that, it's hard to see the fact that their being on top while making arguments against war and against the surveillance state shows we are winning. And sure, as soon as I say this someone will run in with some example of one or both of them supporting endless war and the surveillance state. That's missing the point! Again, both of these men leave a lot to be desired. But the fact that they feel the need to push, at times, against the warfare state and the surveillance state shows that the electorate is ready for something different.

 

[Peace&Freedom]

Until we stress how the "threats" are mostly manufactured by ongoing covert ops, including false flags, black ops, propaganda campaigns and the like, the neocons will have a framework they can effortlessly enforce to launch or continue aggression and foreign intervention. Pleasure and revenge, or the "we've got to defend ourselves" emotional war rattle wins the day, every time.

That narrative overcomes appeals to blowback and realism, as once we're locked in a "we're in a legitimate war" context, those considerations are viewed as a side matter, or naive. Like in crime fighting, where knowing the motive is merely a means of identifying the criminal, while the main issue remains "we got to get 'em." We have demolish the emotional basis for militarism, replacing it with a "we've been lied to, and won't get fooled again" angry counter emotion, in order to get the mass public to receive the non-interventionist perspective.

 

[klamath]

Time to switch the focus to plunderism. Taking other counties resources without regard to nation building. Make America great again.

 

[Ronin Truth]

US casualties count?

War is a racket?

 

[bunklocoempire]

W voter twice, I've been there.

There was really no convincing me, I had to convince myself -but- there certainly was a start to my seeing the light, and that was Ron speaking the truth about this issue -Ron pricked my conscience with the truth. Basically (paraphrased), people want to be left alone, and they want their family and friends left alone (don't "collaterally" kill my peeps).

I first noticed Ron on the Daily Show saying this stuff, and hearing that truth crying in the wilderness made a big enough impression on me to seek out more truth from the little old gadfly guy. The Colbert Show was Ron's next appearance and the second time I saw Ron truth it up IIRC. I had to work through my own brainwashing for a few months, but I got through it -and I was permanently hooked.

By intervening "over there" we don't have to worry about them coming here.

By swatting the hornet's nest out of the tree,
you might get chased all the way back the fuck home
and your family might get stung a few times as well.

I was an apathetic believer of the former quote until Ron turned me on to the truth and I discovered a glaring inconsistency in my belief system. I had a crisis of faith as they say, and I let the truth hone my conscience instead of me trying actively to dull it. More than a few events in my own life leading up to that moment had me ripe for deprogramming, so individual mileage may vary.

It's been said before, but people are libertarians and they don't even know it. Prick consciences, and have faith in the power of the truth.