How do we answer the pulling of support for Israel question?

How many of you are aware that Romney, McCain, Giuliani, Clinton, Obama, AND Edwards are each following AIPAC policies in LOCK STEP?


I'd wager that a lot of us know that as well as being aware of just how much of our foreign policy is almost completely controlled by AIPAC (along with the vast majority of our media and movie-making outlets). Like someone pointed out earlier - research, research, research.
 
That is correct. What is your problem with that. It should be ridiculed for the false impression of goodness.

Wow. If you're ever able to convince a Christian to vote Ron Paul, there must be a god.
 
I never try to do that. I see the futility of it. They cannot exist together if Israel is in the mix.
 
I never try to do that. I see the futility of it. They cannot exist together if Israel is in the mix.

Which goes back to not answering the OP. He wants to convince Christians to vote Ron Paul.
 
To cjhowe... Have you seen what this war has done to the people?? Stick your head in the sand and pretend that it has not been a genocide against an innocent public. Show me that it is a false statement.
 
To cjhowe... Have you seen what this war has done to the people?? Stick your head in the sand and pretend that it has not been a genocide against an innocent public. Show me that it is a false statement.

What does that have to do with this thread?
 
Which goes back to not answering the OP. He wants to convince Christians to vote Ron Paul.

I have already said that I do not care about this demographic. Cults don't matter. The Christian right is not what will win this election. Many of us are sick of them.

You can ignore the gorilla in the room. The anit-war people are coming into your house.
 
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I just don't have the energy for this at the moment. If one really does the research they will find that Paul is actually "pro" Israel. He just doesn't feel that the American taxpayer should be subsidizing ANY nation that is not our own. I am a Zionist and I know many other Zionists who are pro Ron Paul. If they are online tell them to go to a site like Rapture ready forums in the election2008 section and read what they think. Huge amount of Paul support over there among Zionist/fundamentalist Christians.
 
First off, I've read this entire thread. Secondly, I'm a follower of my creator. I'll intentionally not use the word "Christian" as clearly the term has a bad connotation due to some of its extreme religious, legalistic followers. I personally believe Jesus came to set us free - not give us a bunch of rules to follow. And I'm not pushing that belief on anyone - my life is my testimony. I also believe in our constitution. It is supposed to uplift our freedom, not create more laws, so many that they begin to make it impossible for us to live our daily lives.

Secondly, I agree Israel can take care of herself. Israel needs to learn its own lessons as we are learning when it comes to managing money. Even if they have to learn the hard way. Also, how does our government, trying to convince Israel to give up more of her rightful land (such as half of Jerusalem) promote peace? What about the millions of $$'s we've given the Palistinians, Syrians, etc to stay OUT of Israel? & now we're turning the tables & trying to convince Israel the right thing to do is let them in?

I agree there are members of their government/military, etc who are corrupt. Look at our government - who are we to judge when we hear every day about corruption, terrorizing prisoners (guilty OR innocent), the lack of a real justice system, etc. in our own backyard? I say we quit judging & let Israel live their lives, defend themselves (which they're MORE than capable of doing) and quit trying to run their country & tell them how "we" think it should be done. & I believe Ron Paul feels the same way.

That's just my 2 cents. I'm voting for Ron Paul.
 
I just don't have the energy for this at the moment. If one really does the research they will find that Paul is actually "pro" Israel. He just doesn't feel that the American taxpayer should be subsidizing ANY nation that is not our own. I am a Zionist and I know many other Zionists who are pro Ron Paul. If they are online tell them to go to a site like Rapture ready forums in the election2008 section and read what they think. Huge amount of Paul support over there among Zionist/fundamentalist Christians.


That is a lie. Paul is not pro Israel. If you are indeed a Zionist I don't know what you are doing here. I can only assume you don't know what that word means.
 
Ron Paul Isolationism in his own words

7/5/07 Radio Interview with Michael Smerconish

9:40 minute

Michael Smerconish: Do you call this view of the world an isolationist policy?

Ron Paul: I don’t. Some like to accuse me of that, but I’m the opposite of an isolationist. I’m a free-trader, and I like low tariffs; I like travel, and I like to be friends with everybody. I think what we have today is diplomatic isolationism. When you think about it, we have more enemies and less allies than ever before, we go it alone, and I think we have become an isolationist nation. But my position is a lot different than that.

Michael Smerconish: One other on this score. I love having this conversation. I’m generally enthused about what you say our foreign policy should be. What do we do about our friends in Israel?

Ron Paul: I think just like so much of our foreign policy has unintended consequences, I think we have literally put Israel in a weakened position. Israel can take of herself. She has 200 or 300 nuclear weapons. Nobody’s going to touch her. She can take care of anybody over there. By us perpetually giving Israel money, Israel can’t do what she has to do for herself – they have to get permission from us, or we say “we won’t give you our money unless you take orders from us.” And besides, Israel without us there taking care of her day to day, Israel would be more likely to pursue peace with Syria. They want to now, but we stop Israel from pursuing any peace treaty with Syria. So I think in the long run, we harm Israel. A lot of people won’t accept that, but I sincerely believe that. Israel is very capable. The whole problem with my position is they say “you don’t care about Israel”, but if what I say could possibly be true, we may be doing Israel more harm than good.
 
In speaking with my born-again sister, (she really likes Ron Paul) she related to me that the Israel support question is a big thing she encounters when speaking to her friends about RP. She said "they really seem to like him until it gets to the no continued support for Israel, I think that's going to be a problem for him".

I really don't know enough about the issue to offer an answer. I've looked on RPlibrary.com and found a few things. I wish he'd issue a position statement on this topic.

My meetup is working on radio ads targeting Christian stations, so these topics are in the forefront of what we're trying to understand right now.

p.s. please donate to our chip-in if you think our radio ads for Christians is a good idea! Thanks! http://foxvalleywisconsin.chipin.co...ampaignoperation-wake-up-wisconsin-christians

I thought he didn't support sending money and weapons, ie aid to them. But we can still support Israel as a friend.

We can't treat Israel as a third world country and we should not be giving them money.

If I'm wrong, sorry but I just thougth it had to do with foreign aid.
 
I have already said that I do not care about this demographic. Cults don't matter. The Christian right is not what will win this election. Many of us are sick of them.

You can ignore the gorilla in the room. The anit-war people are coming into your house.

you are the ignorant one here, we do support Dr Paul, many of us do. Stop the insults or I will start insulting you, privately.
 
That is a lie. Paul is not pro Israel. If you are indeed a Zionist I don't know what you are doing here. I can only assume you don't know what that word means.

i think you may be the one misguided, we are a broad range of people in this coutnry, Ron Paul is good for ALL, not just for you, or me for that matter.
 
We are the United States of AMERICA. Tell them who cares about Israel. Seriously, why in the world do we care about them?? Let them fight themselves to bankruptcy and death, after all they can never stop fighting.
 
Folks, if you ever want to turn a person off to our support for Israel, it only takes nine letters:

USS Liberty

Do a quick google search on the term. I guarantee you won't support our annual tithe to the Israeli war machine ever again.
 
If anyone wants SPECIAL treatment for any lobbying group then Ron Paul isnt for them. This is about equality and being fair.

We have just ruined our middle eastern relationships by favoring Israel over the Palestinians, if we had had a more evewn hand over there we wouldnt even have a terrorist problem at all.

you follow the history behind this, you will see this is and has been about Israel. If we go to war with Iran, its not about OUR security its about Israels security. They dont have a bomb, they cant even get it here if they did, this is about Irans threat to Israel.

I've researched this allot, also a really good book to read or direct people to is "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"


This is a reader review about the book.

This book is stunning. The two authors are prominent political scientists with impeccable credentials, hailing from Harvard and the University of Chicago. They have boldly gone where many of their academic colleagues would fear to tread. Although their conclusions about Israel and its negative influence on American foreign policy will awaken much anxiety, resentment and fury in certain quarters, Walt and Mearsheimer don't seem to care. Why not? They are scientists. They appeal to logic, facts and common sense; and let the conclusions fall where they may. The writing is calm, dispassionate, thorough. The basic argument is that the extraordinarily high degree of economic, military and diplomatic support given to Israel by the United States cannot be explained or justified by the notion that Israel functions as a strategic asset to the U.S., or that Israel as the "only democracy" amidst a sea of authoritarian neighbors is deserving of special favor for its "shared interests and values". In fact, the authors claim, Israel is more a liability than an asset. During the Cold War, the strategic-value argument had perhaps some plausibility -- but no longer. What has replaced the Soviet menace, as the enemy which the U.S. supposedly needs Israel's help to combat, is Islamic terrorism. But the U.S. favor shown to Israel at the expense of the Palestinians only makes us more not less vulnerable to terrorism. Furthermore Israel's cruelty towards the Palestinians and its essential nature as a Jewish but not a truly democratic state in which all citizens of whatever ethnicity or religion would be given equal rights and respect, belie the "shared values" argument.

So if neither "shared values" nor "strategic asset" can explain the overwhelming U.S. support of Israel, what else is there? The power of the Israel lobby, which has brought about a situation in which it is impossible for elected officials to question support for Israel, much less redirect foreign policy in any way contrary to the perceived self-interest of Israel. This has led the U.S. to make critical mistakes, such as invading and occupying Iraq. The war on Iraq has proven disastrous; the authors argue that the U.S. would not have attacked Iraq, were it not for the influence of the Israel lobby.

In the end, perhaps what is most significant and remarkable about this book is that it has seen the light of day. It got published. Could it be that there is still hope for reasonable, open debate about the right courses of action in the Middle East? The authors have been and will continue to be vilified as anti-Semitic or worse. They are owed a debt of gratitude for having the courage to stand up and to refuse to be silenced.

People need to get past the anti-semitic bullshit and read this very accurate report from two very well respected people.
 
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A friend of mine who is a hardcore Pentecostal, is a Ron Paul supporter, and agrees with RP's Israel stance. My friend feels that the government should not be subsidizing Israel, but US citizens can personally donate all they want to Israel's benefit, much like many US citizens donated to the IRA. I take it one step further and say that these chickenhawk evangelicals should personally go fund and form their own private army, or join the Israeli army, and contribute in that manner, instead of sending US soldiers to be killed for their cause.
 
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