How do we answer the pulling of support for Israel question?

[deedles]

Is this in Danish? I can't find an english version.

[I saw a documentary last past May that completely changed my life forever. I cried for 3 weeks after watching it(seriously). But I think it changed me for the better making me more aware.

If you want to watch it, here it is below. WARNING: this could be emotionally difficult:

http://www.vpro.nl/programma/tegenlicht/afleveringen/34338524/

Click opslaan to play it.

Keep in mind I am Hispanic and most people that I am close to are Jewish.[/QUOTE]

 

[Tina]

This topic is too 'hot' for many of us anti war folks. I would appeal to the deaths of so many innocents. If and it's a big IF these people are really 'Christians' they should be able to see the irony. It's not in the least bit funny to me. I also don't appreciate the fact that 'Christians have supported the slaughter of children, torture and everything else this war has caused.

 

[KewlRonduderules]

The interviews are in English. Whatever narrative there is, it is subtitled (not very much)

 

[Jimmy]

You don't think this is alittle too much money being given away??

http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/04/26/a-record-day-for-the-irs-a-bad-day-for-the-rest-of-us/

48.7 Billion dollars collected...an all time high this year....wonder how much was just given away???

23 BILLION...thats how much!

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/d...6&m=June&x=20060609155345AKllennoCcM0.3621942

Time for some folks to stand on there own and not off the backs of US taxpayers.

 

[deedles]

This topic is too 'hot' for many of us anti war folks. I would appeal to the deaths of so many innocents. If and it's a big IF these people are really 'Christians' they should be able to see the irony. It's not in the least bit funny to me. I also don't appreciate the fact that 'Christians have supported the slaughter of children, torture and everything else this war has caused.

See, this is what I don't get either. How on earth can you say you are a Christian and support this murder of innocents that is going on over there? I asked a Israel-firster at work today about this killing of innocents and he said "the more the better". When I brought up that Israel has enough firepower to level about the whole middle east he just poo-poohed me and said "we have to back them up... I like Ron Paul a lot but that's where he loses me."

Maybe I should send him that awful and powerful video that someone linked to the other night on here. Gruesome photos of dead Iraqi children. I couldn't even bring myself to send it out but maybe I should..?

 

[Tina]

You don't think this is alittle too much money being given away??

http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/04/26/a-record-day-for-the-irs-a-bad-day-for-the-rest-of-us/

48.7 Billion dollars collected...an all time high this year....wonder how much was just given away???

23 BILLION...thats how much!

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/d...6&m=June&x=20060609155345AKllennoCcM0.3621942

Time for some folks to stand on there own and not off the backs of US taxpayers.

grrrr...

 

[cjhowe]

In speaking with my born-again sister, (she really likes Ron Paul) she related to me that the Israel support question is a big thing she encounters when speaking to her friends about RP. She said "they really seem to like him until it gets to the no continued support for Israel, I think that's going to be a problem for him".

I really don't know enough about the issue to offer an answer. I've looked on RPlibrary.com and found a few things. I wish he'd issue a position statement on this topic.

My meetup is working on radio ads targeting Christian stations, so these topics are in the forefront of what we're trying to understand right now.

p.s. please donate to our chip-in if you think our radio ads for Christians is a good idea! Thanks! http://foxvalleywisconsin.chipin.co...ampaignoperation-wake-up-wisconsin-christians

Wow, 26 replies and no one answered YOUR question. We as a forum really need to take a "listening" class. Christian's fascination with Israel comes from Genesis 12:3

From NIV
God speaking to Abram (Abraham)
I will bless those who bless you,
and whoever curses you I will curse;
and all peoples on earth
will be blessed through you."

If who you're speaking with believes this is prophetic into today's times where Abram = Israel, the question then becomes, "What does it mean to bless Israel?"

Does it mean to defend her from all foes?
Well, Zechariah 12:8 says that God will defend the inhabitants of Israel. So defence is God's job. Does a Christian doubt that God will defend her? If so, what happened to faith?

Does it mean to make decisions for her, like we do by getting in the middle of Israel's negotiations with Syria and Saudi Arabia and the Palestinians? Seeing as Bush is getting in the middle of things and calling for a Palestinian state, this doesn't seem like a blessing to Israel unless that was their choice.

It seems difficult to understand what it means to bless another nation, but it is rather clear that what we are doing isn't it.

 

[Channing]

Say this:
If the US also cancels its military aid for various Arab states such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt and removes its presence of troops in the region and stops threatening the nations in the region with war, then the whole situation in the Middle East will become less tense and thus actually more secure for Israel.

 

[walt]

Ron Paul will treat all foreign nations equally. He will not favor any particular nation over another. When you start to build entangling alliances, you just end up with even more enemies.

Ron Paul will deal with Israel on an equal basis with Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran or any other nation in the world.

Israel can take care of itself.

Bingo - tough break for Bradley in DC - who based on his actions on this issue isn't truly a supporter of Ron Paul fully and totally.

 

[Tina]

Her question was answered. Just not in the way you thought it should be.

 

[Tina]

Sacred cows are not acceptable in a presidential campaign IMO.

 

[leipo]

Is this in Danish? I can't find an english version.

No, it's Dutch This is indeed a very good documentary on the subject.
But how do you mean, you can't find an english version. The documentary has english subtitles where the voice-over speaks dutch and for the most part it's americans being interviewed (without dutch subtitles).
Here is a direct link to the high quality stream:

http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/tv/vpro/tegenlicht/bb.theisraellobby.asf

 

[tsetsefly]

Ron Paul will treat all foreign nations equally. He will not favor any particular nation over another. When you start to build entangling alliances, you just end up with even more enemies.

Ron Paul will deal with Israel on an equal basis with Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran or any other nation in the world.

Israel can take care of itself.

I dont think that is true, your second statement, Syria and Iran are ruled by madmen and cannot be treated as equally as Israel, not giving aid to Israel doesn't mean he doesnt support self defense of Israel, in fact he was one of the few in congress that backed Israel in the bombing of Saddam's nuclear capabilities in the 80's that str8 from his statement in an interview earlier this year...

 

[cjhowe]

Her question was answered. Just not in the way you thought it should be.

Just not in a way that has anything to do with Christianity, other than to ridicule it.

 

[ValidusCustodiae]

Hmm

I'm not sure if you guys realize what you're up against, having read this entire thread.

I knew this would be a stumbling block all along. There is a strong sentiment among evangelical christians and offshoots like the mormons that support of the state of Israel. Freemasons also have a vested interest in the support of Israel, since they plan someday to rebuild the temple of King Solomon (which unfortunately for Muslims will require the demolition of two of their holiest sites, the Al'Aqsah mosque and the Dome of the Rock). B'nai B'rith freemasons (freemasons in Israel) are at the visible head of this movement which covers the globe.

Conspiracy theorist me this and that, blah blah. We all know Ron Paul is the only top tier candidate who is not a CFR member. And we are all aware that he does not cater to any special interests or lobbies. How many of you are aware that Romney, McCain, Giuliani, Clinton, Obama, AND Edwards are each following AIPAC policies in LOCK STEP?

You can look at the whole situation and wonder why, or you can do some research. I did the latter.

At any rate, like I said, we're up against a mountain with this one. All I can say is that we have to outvote them. Converting them is going to be inefficient.

 

[RP4ME]

and remind her Paul is not singleing out isreal it just he doesnt belive in giving Aid abroad.

Ask her from an economic basis how we are to afford this? The Bible discourages being a borower and tell her we are borrwing to do this and are now the biggest debtor nation in the world and in that case does sending money to a first world country like Isreal make sense logically and spiritually? And that we are not someones enemy b/c we dont go into debt for them.....I dont belive we Bless Isreal in thsi manner or ourselves in fact i think we disrespect ourselves and are operating contrary to what God would have us do and contrary to logic.

Oh and I am a believer who was at one time brainwashed into beliveing all this. Tell her Karl rove got into the church and thats where this is coming form- the church did not get into this administration...they see Christains as pawns....I learned this late in the game....Tell her to look up Strauss which is who the Neocons admire and you will see a commie and one who belives religion is a tool to be used to herd sheep.

 

[KewlRonduderules]

How many of you are aware that Romney, McCain, Giuliani, Clinton, Obama, AND Edwards are each following AIPAC policies in LOCK STEP?

Me.

 

[Adamsa]

I like this line I made up:

"Isreal is a big boy now, it can take care of itself."

 

[Falseflagop]

We (AMERICANS) are brainwashed with Israel is our greatest Ally !!

Now please answer me how and what do they do for us the USA to make them our best ally?

1) They steal secrets from our defense dept.
2) The bombed the USS Liberty intenationally and in essence declared WAR on us.
3) 90% of the Radio and TV Talk show host regardless of Party (Air America) or Rush type are Jewish/Zionist or Christain/Zonist that brainwash your mind daily that Israel is great. Tell that to the family of Rachael Corrie.
4) Why isn't the LOBBY or Israel ever ever discussed on TV or Radio? I tried to get on talk radio (they were discussing IRAN) and I said I wanted to talk about the Israel lobby influence in drumming the war drums for Iran. The screener said sorry that will not happen. I rest my case, they are Gatekeepers on the right and the left (Air America, they blame Bush, Cheney, Bush Chebey) Yet the true power the AIPAC, the ADL who are the puppet masters.
5) Takes billions in USA taxpayer money!

Watch what Ralph Nader says in 18 seconds priceless!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rD_rWcDRZQ

 

[Tina]

Just not in a way that has anything to do with Christianity, other than to ridicule it.

That is correct. What is your problem with that. It should be ridiculed for the false impression of goodness.