how do i respond to this? he has me cornered

[garrettwombat]

on a homeschooling forum to me:

While he is pro on abolishing the IRS--that does not mean he can deliver. He will be one president in a checks and balance system with 535 congressmen. How he will be able to go about abolishing the IRS without Congress approval should be no secret, so I see no problem with you providing a link to the information here.

Second, a familiar Ron Paul quote: "By the way, when I say cut taxes, I don't mean fiddle with the code. I mean abolish the income tax and the IRS, and replace them with nothing." Hold that thought....

Let's talk about something that really appeals to homeschooling parents, H.R. 1056: Family Education Freedom Act of 2007—Education Tax Credit. First of all, isn't that an attempt to "fiddle with the code?" I totally understand trying to work with the system as it is, however as one who believes the IRS and income tax are unconstitutional, I think I would be more impressed with Ron Paul if he did not try to "fiddle with the code" at all, considering that its legality is in question.

Back to the Family Education Freedom Act itself. Five bills with the same name with a $3,000 per child credit have been introduced since 1998...and all died. The latest introduced February 14, 2007 has a $5,000 per child credit and it is still in committee. While I appreciate his tenacity (and I would appreciate the tax credit personally under this current system), this also indicates that his fellow congressmen are not taking him seriously. How much can any man get done as a president if his ideas have so little influence in Congress?

Lastly, he is using both the Family Education Freedom Act and abolishing the IRS as campaign promises. Now which is he really for? No IRS or fiddling with the code? Maybe he is using the Family Education Freedom Act as the dangling carrot and the ones ready to bite on it the most are the homeschooling parents, which are now considered an interest group...?

Just a thought....

 

[tomveil]

on a homeschooling forum to me:

While he is pro on abolishing the IRS--that does not mean he can deliver. He will be one president in a checks and balance system with 535 congressmen. How he will be able to go about abolishing the IRS without Congress approval should be no secret, so I see no problem with you providing a link to the information here.

Second, a familiar Ron Paul quote: "By the way, when I say cut taxes, I don't mean fiddle with the code. I mean abolish the income tax and the IRS, and replace them with nothing." Hold that thought....

Let's talk about something that really appeals to homeschooling parents, H.R. 1056: Family Education Freedom Act of 2007—Education Tax Credit. First of all, isn't that an attempt to "fiddle with the code?" I totally understand trying to work with the system as it is, however as one who believes the IRS and income tax are unconstitutional, I think I would be more impressed with Ron Paul if he did not try to "fiddle with the code" at all, considering that its legality is in question.

Back to the Family Education Freedom Act itself. Five bills with the same name with a $3,000 per child credit have been introduced since 1998...and all died. The latest introduced February 14, 2007 has a $5,000 per child credit and it is still in committee. While I appreciate his tenacity (and I would appreciate the tax credit personally under this current system), this also indicates that his fellow congressmen are not taking him seriously. How much can any man get done as a president if his ideas have so little influence in Congress?

Lastly, he is using both the Family Education Freedom Act and abolishing the IRS as campaign promises. Now which is he really for? No IRS or fiddling with the code? Maybe he is using the Family Education Freedom Act as the dangling carrot and the ones ready to bite on it the most are the homeschooling parents, which are now considered an interest group...?

Just a thought....

Well, you're talking about two different things.

Getting rid of the IRS and income tax is one thing.

Granting tax credits (Fiddling with the code) is another.

Even without the IRS, there will be taxes. Ron Paul advocates granting credit on THOSE taxes to programs that would compete with the government.

 

[tsetsefly]

Ron Paul is the most pro-homeschool candidate out there, I am sure there is plenty info on that around.

As for the IRS, if he cant eliminate it I am sure he can compromise with congress to drastically reduce taxes...

 

[tesseract]

I'm pretty sure Dr. Paul doesn't think the IRS is illegal - the 16th amendment does seem to authorize it. He wants to get rid of it altogether but that desire is not incompatible with a desire to improve it somewhat in the meantime.

 

[RoyalShock]

What is wrong with working within the system for some short-term gains (FEF Act) while continuing to work toward the ultimate goal of abolishing the IRS?

I swear that Ron Paul is held to a totally different standard as every other candidate. The compromise ALL the time, never actually accomplishing their goals, yet they are never held accountable.

 

[Thumper]

I think that the answer to these questions is that putting ANY candidate in office is only a partial solution. If we want the changes that ANY candidate endorses then WE have to take responsibility for helping those changes become a reality. WE need to elect congressman and senators that will abide by OUR wishes. WE need to be vocal about how we want our country to be run.

Ron Paul has much less influence as a Congressman than he would as president. As President he would be able to address the American People directly, on every TV network, regarding these issues and give the nation a call to action.

It is impossible for me to believe that if RP stood in front of the nation and said he wanted to abolish the IRS and the tax code, but the Congress and Senate had his hands tied, that the American people wouldn't do something to change that. I dont know anyone who likes the IRS or the income tax. If the Congress and the Senate don't take action in accordance with the will of the people, the VAST majority of Americans, woe be to them.

 

[patriotcalendar]

[How much can any man get done as a president if his ideas have so little influence in Congress?

Dr. Paul has never had such tremendous support from *ordinary citizens* as he does now. Imagine, all of us who have turned from apathy to activism, contacting our congress critters about legislative issues as routinely as we should have been all along!

 

[jblosser]

on a homeschooling forum to me:

While he is pro on abolishing the IRS--that does not mean he can deliver. He will be one president in a checks and balance system with 535 congressmen. How he will be able to go about abolishing the IRS without Congress approval should be no secret, so I see no problem with you providing a link to the information here.

How did Andy Jackon kill the bank? How did Ronald Reagan get a Democrat Congress to go along with him? The President doesn't write the laws but that hardly means he has nothing to do with setting policy. He can veto and END anything they don't have 2/3 support for. He can pardon whoever he wants. He can appeal to the American people to make their reps go along.

Second, a familiar Ron Paul quote: "By the way, when I say cut taxes, I don't mean fiddle with the code. I mean abolish the income tax and the IRS, and replace them with nothing." Hold that thought....

Let's talk about something that really appeals to homeschooling parents, H.R. 1056: Family Education Freedom Act of 2007—Education Tax Credit. First of all, isn't that an attempt to "fiddle with the code?" I totally understand trying to work with the system as it is, however as one who believes the IRS and income tax are unconstitutional, I think I would be more impressed with Ron Paul if he did not try to "fiddle with the code" at all, considering that its legality is in question.

It's called attacking on multiple fronts. He wants to get rid of the whole code but until that happens he can attack it 100 different smaller ways and chip away at it. Just proposing a single "declare the IRS illegal" bill each session would be barely a blip, vs proposing all manner of tax rollbacks and constantly getting time on the floor to talk about the problem.

Back to the Family Education Freedom Act itself. Five bills with the same name with a $3,000 per child credit have been introduced since 1998...and all died. The latest introduced February 14, 2007 has a $5,000 per child credit and it is still in committee. While I appreciate his tenacity (and I would appreciate the tax credit personally under this current system), this also indicates that his fellow congressmen are not taking him seriously. How much can any man get done as a president if his ideas have so little influence in Congress?

Do you think his fellow Congressman will still not take him seriously if the American people elect him President and give him the bully pulpit? The same American people who will be re-electing them or throwing them out next? Was this person of news-awareness age when Reagan was President?

Lastly, he is using both the Family Education Freedom Act and abolishing the IRS as campaign promises. Now which is he really for? No IRS or fiddling with the code? Maybe he is using the Family Education Freedom Act as the dangling carrot and the ones ready to bite on it the most are the homeschooling parents, which are now considered an interest group...?

Just a thought....

Suggesting Ron's got ulterior motives for these things mostly shows this person isn't aware of his record in and out of the House the last 30 years. If Ron was after power there are certainly easier ways to get it.

 

[robpriv]

All Ron has to do is go on TV and say "I want the income tax and 16th amendment gone. Tell your reps and senators that if they don't vote to get rid of it, you will not reelect them."

Then the phones, emails and faxes will be blowing up in D.C.

If the current group doesn't do it , the ones that replace them will.

 

[tsetsefly]

I'm pretty sure Dr. Paul doesn't think the IRS is illegal - the 16th amendment does seem to authorize it. He wants to get rid of it altogether but that desire is not incompatible with a desire to improve it somewhat in the meantime.

oh its deifinetly illegal... http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/home.asp

 

[promagma]

Ron Paul could abolish the IRS. It is part of the executive branch, so he could do it with an executive order. The real battle is working with Congress to cut spending and make it possible.

 

[ThomasJ]

As with most of the offices that are not constitutional the IRS offices are determined by the president. So even if he did not have the power to get congress to overturn the 16th amendment he does have the power to say.. "There shall be no IRS offices nationwide. No Employees, and pardon everyone who breaks the "Law"


The same is true for the DEA.
Because the rules that let the DEA get away with it are un-constitutional they get away with it with the interstate commerce clause and run it through the Executive branch.

 

[Alex Libman]

I think this is another case of letting "perfect" become the enemy of "good". Sure, there's a limit to what Paul can accomplish, does that mean you'd rather see nothing be accomplished? Paul's campaign is obviously just one battle of a larger war, and a very large part of that war is breaking through the MSM barrier that keeps the existing party establishment in place. Even repeating what Ross Perot did in 1992 would be a huge leap forward! Future battles will pick up on that success. Rome wasn't built in a day, and with your friend's attitude nothing would ever get built!

 

[billybigrigger]

What is wrong with working within the system for some short-term gains (FEF Act) while continuing to work toward the ultimate goal of abolishing the IRS?

I swear that Ron Paul is held to a totally different standard as every other candidate. The compromise ALL the time, never actually accomplishing their goals, yet they are never held accountable.

Amen

 

[steve005]

bump

 

[FreedomLover]

on a homeschooling forum to me:

While he is pro on abolishing the IRS--that does not mean he can deliver. He will be one president in a checks and balance system with 535 congressmen. How he will be able to go about abolishing the IRS without Congress approval should be no secret, so I see no problem with you providing a link to the information here.

Second, a familiar Ron Paul quote: "By the way, when I say cut taxes, I don't mean fiddle with the code. I mean abolish the income tax and the IRS, and replace them with nothing." Hold that thought....

Let's talk about something that really appeals to homeschooling parents, H.R. 1056: Family Education Freedom Act of 2007—Education Tax Credit. First of all, isn't that an attempt to "fiddle with the code?" I totally understand trying to work with the system as it is, however as one who believes the IRS and income tax are unconstitutional, I think I would be more impressed with Ron Paul if he did not try to "fiddle with the code" at all, considering that its legality is in question.

Back to the Family Education Freedom Act itself. Five bills with the same name with a $3,000 per child credit have been introduced since 1998...and all died. The latest introduced February 14, 2007 has a $5,000 per child credit and it is still in committee. While I appreciate his tenacity (and I would appreciate the tax credit personally under this current system), this also indicates that his fellow congressmen are not taking him seriously. How much can any man get done as a president if his ideas have so little influence in Congress?

Lastly, he is using both the Family Education Freedom Act and abolishing the IRS as campaign promises. Now which is he really for? No IRS or fiddling with the code? Maybe he is using the Family Education Freedom Act as the dangling carrot and the ones ready to bite on it the most are the homeschooling parents, which are now considered an interest group...?

Just a thought....

Tell him that's he moved for numerous bills that both lower taxes and to abolish the irs. Then tell him that all of those bills would be good...because they all represent less government and less taxation. And that they only vary in degree.

Then tell him that abolishing the IRS is the best case scenario, because just issuing a tax credit saves no money at all, just lessens the tax. And that the family saves more money if the IRS is abolished then by receiving a tax credit.

 

[Pharoah]

If congress won't work with him, do you really think party loyalty will prevent President Paul from letting the public know? At that point, it will be up to us to pressure congress to act on the will of the people.

 

[ronpaulblogsdotcom]

This is like any other issue. He hates the Federal Reserve, so do I. Will I not vote for him a second time if he does not get rid of it? No

He does not want to end it immediately. We need to do things slowly. The first thing to stabilize the dollar is to stop the growth of the money supply which Bernanke is doing.

Then allow competitive currencies.

Then make spending make sense and balance.

Then possibly move for a more open Federal Reserve.

Then some controls or transfer of power to the nation.

Then possibly removing it.

The order of these things could change of course. Some are my ideas, some RPs. RP is sensible and knows sometimes you have to work in the system if it will be years before it is changed.

 

[krzee]

The next step is to start making a difference in the elections of congress and senate. Keep an eye on http://ronpaulsacrossamerica.com/ for candidates running for office who support Ron Paul's stances.

 

[Luft97]

I posted this elsewhere but it pertains to the situation.

110th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. J. RES. 23
Proposing an amendment the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens.


IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

February 7, 2007
Mr. PAUL (for himself and Mr. MILLER of Florida) introduced the following joint resolution; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


JOINT RESOLUTION
Proposing an amendment the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens.


Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each House concurring therein), That the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the Constitution when ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years after the date of its submission for ratification:

`Article --

`Section 1. The Government of the United States shall not engage in any business, professional, commercial, financial, or industrial enterprise except as specified in the Constitution.

`Section 2. The constitution or laws of any State, or the laws of the United States, shall not be subject to the terms of any foreign or domestic agreement which would abrogate this amendment.

`Section 3. The activities of the United States Government which violate the intent and purposes of this amendment shall, within a period of three years from the date of the ratification of this amendment, be liquidated and the properties and facilities affected shall be sold.

`Section 4. Three years after the ratification of this amendment the sixteenth article of amendments to the Constitution of the United States shall stand repealed and thereafter Congress shall not levy taxes on personal incomes, estates, and gifts.'.

This kind of resolution is how it is done easy as that. End of story.