Hope lives on...

[navy-vet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-PoDIGZXNM

 

[Teenager For Ron Paul]

nah...

 

[navy-vet]

Sometimes it seems to me as though the only believers in truth and freedom are of the old schools. This hints to me that maybe that isn't actually so....

 

[Teenager For Ron Paul]

I have fairly informed opinions on the political views of Americans around the ages of 16-21, if you'd like to hear them...

 

[navy-vet]

I have fairly informed opinions on the political views of Americans around the ages of 16-21, if you'd like to hear them...

Sure. Am I correct in assuming that you are either within or just beyond that category yourself?

 

[Teenager For Ron Paul]

That is correct. I'm almost 20 (hence me username will no longer be accurate)

 

[fr33]

nah...

What's your problem with it? Though I found her books hard to read due to the lengthy descriptions, I see a lot of what Rand predicted happening today.

 

[The Free Hornet]

I have fairly informed opinions on the political views of Americans around the ages of 16-21, if you'd like to hear them...

You've posted three times without adding any substance. Color me skeptical but I'd like to read your coherent thoughts regarding today's youth and liberty whether or not there is pertinence to Ayn Rand and/or the Atlas Shrugged movies (which I have yet to see). I wouldn't expect the youth to have much connection to her just as I don't expect the younger generation to have much skill with desktop PCs.

 

[navy-vet]

the suspense is killing me....

 

[Spikender]

As a twenty year old myself, I have to say that in general the youngin's I know have been open minded to the political thoughts of liberty that I've brought up.

Problem is to me that a lot of them just don't have an interest in politics. They don't even know who people are who didn't appear in the Presidential Elections most of the time. It's all about gearing the message to me to different people, and that includes some of today's youth that aren't interested in them. That's why I usually discuss issues rather than names with people my age because it's much easier to explain things that way.

Though some just display apathy toward politics as well, but we all have that around here in that ourselves.

 

[Teenager For Ron Paul]

Ok, here are my thoughts, since you seem to really want them. I base all this off personal experience in school and college, and to a certain extend the internet.

I see several divisions:

We have the very religious young people (largely Mormons in the west where I'm from) who are supportive of republicans and to a lesser extent the libertarian leaning conservatives like Rand and Massie. They despise most democrats. Most of them aren't very informed, but the ones that lean towards the libertarian side of things tend to be more informed.

Then there are the ultra liberal know it all socialists of this generation. Many are hardline democrats who love the gubbermint and worship everything they do, however there are also some more informed individuals who are still far left, but are skeptical of typical democrats, as well as obama. They'd probably be Kucinich supporters (if they knew about him, which I don't think many do.)

There are a decent amount (although less than some people think) of heavily libertarian Ron Paul supporters. Not the liberals who say "I like Ron Paul's foreign policy" or the conservatives who say "Ron Paul has some good ideas on the free market". We're talking about the real libertarians. They are very passionate and informed--typical RP supporters, if you ask me. I identify with this group a lot.

A very large group consists of what I call the "I hate politics" crowd. They're non-political people for the most part, although they do have a few opinions here and there from watching the Colbert Report, and maybe from their political friends. A lot of them are disillusioned with politics and prefer to just try and live their lives. They're generally of slightly above average intelligence. Ideologically they're either moderate liberals, or moderate libertarians with a few liberal leanings. I sympathize with this group as well.

Finally you have some of the more thoughtful and informed but less ideological "moderates" whose opinion on issues could be anywhere, although they're generally fairly liberal. They seem politically active but prefer to keep politics out of things.

As far as peoples' views on Ayn Rand, most young people who know about her either absolutely loathe her and her philosophy, as much as to wince at the sound of her name or her books. However there aren't that many people in my generation know about her. I've been trying to understand why people despise Atlas Shrugged (the book) although I haven't found anything other than "She just wants the rich to have everything. She thinks being selfish is the best thing ever" which is a misunderstanding. People in general seem to just assume that what she says is crazy, 'because everyone knows it is' and jump on the hate bandwagon.

My thoughts on Atlas Shrugged? I thought the movies were subpar but not as awful as people think..but the trailer for the third movie looks sketchy and doesn't quite capture the magnificence of the spirit and thesis of the book.

Any questions?

 

[navy-vet]

I'm good.

 

[fr33]

Ok, here are my thoughts, since you seem to really want them. I base all this off personal experience in school and college, and to a certain extend the internet.

I see several divisions:

We have the very religious young people (largely Mormons in the west where I'm from) who are supportive of republicans and to a lesser extent the libertarian leaning conservatives like Rand and Massie. They despise most democrats. Most of them aren't very informed, but the ones that lean towards the libertarian side of things tend to be more informed.

Then there are the ultra liberal know it all socialists of this generation. Many are hardline democrats who love the gubbermint and worship everything they do, however there are also some more informed individuals who are still far left, but are skeptical of typical democrats, as well as obama. They'd probably be Kucinich supporters (if they knew about him, which I don't think many do.)

There are a decent amount (although less than some people think) of heavily libertarian Ron Paul supporters. Not the liberals who say "I like Ron Paul's foreign policy" or the conservatives who say "Ron Paul has some good ideas on the free market". We're talking about the real libertarians. They are very passionate and informed--typical RP supporters, if you ask me. I identify with this group a lot.

A very large group consists of what I call the "I hate politics" crowd. They're non-political people for the most part, although they do have a few opinions here and there from watching the Colbert Report, and maybe from their political friends. A lot of them are disillusioned with politics and prefer to just try and live their lives. They're generally of slightly above average intelligence. Ideologically they're either moderate liberals, or moderate libertarians with a few liberal leanings. I sympathize with this group as well.

Finally you have some of the more thoughtful and informed but less ideological "moderates" whose opinion on issues could be anywhere, although they're generally fairly liberal. They seem politically active but prefer to keep politics out of things.

As far as peoples' views on Ayn Rand, most young people who know about her either absolutely loathe her and her philosophy, as much as to wince at the sound of her name or her books. However there aren't that many people in my generation know about her. I've been trying to understand why people despise Atlas Shrugged (the book) although I haven't found anything other than "She just wants the rich to have everything. She thinks being selfish is the best thing ever" which is a misunderstanding. People in general seem to just assume that what she says is crazy, 'because everyone knows it is' and jump on the hate bandwagon.

My thoughts on Atlas Shrugged? I thought the movies were subpar but not as awful as people think..but the trailer for the third movie looks sketchy and doesn't quite capture the magnificence of the spirit and thesis of the book.

Any questions?

Sounds like an honest assessment. IMO Rand has been maligned by the progressives in the media. It's mostly because Atlas Shrugged is such a high selling book so it get's attacked by rabid progressives since it's viewed as a threat to their ideology. It also probably doesn't help that neocon nutjobs like Pamella Gellar hijack the name. It's a shame the movies weren't produced very well. They should have adapted the story to a more futuristic world.

I bet the ultra liberal, "I hate politics", and moderate groups that you list are probably very receptive to raising the minimum wage, obamacare, and other forms of "making someone else pay for what I want". Probably some of the republican crowd as well.

 

[Teenager For Ron Paul]

Sounds like an honest assessment. IMO Rand has been maligned by the progressives in the media. It's mostly because Atlas Shrugged is such a high selling book so it get's attacked by rabid progressives since it's viewed as a threat to their ideology. It also probably doesn't help that neocon nutjobs like Pamella Gellar hijack the name. It's a shame the movies weren't produced very well. They should have adapted the story to a more futuristic world.

I bet the ultra liberal, "I hate politics", and moderate groups that you list are probably very receptive to raising the minimum wage, obamacare, and other forms of "making someone else pay for what I want". Probably some of the republican crowd as well.

I agree on both counts. Most everyone has surrendered on the minimum wage debate.

There are, I think, a couple very important factors that I think have caused young people to distance themselves from the Republican party and consequently true conservatism. (I'm not supportive of "Republicans" in general but that doesn't mean I think Republican = greedy religious nutjobs trying to destroy America, or that the Democrats are the "good guys" fighting for the little guy or middle class or whatever.)

The important factors are: the old ultra christian people whom are seen as the face of the Republican party either make an ass out of themselves in discussions about science and gay marriage (Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, Michelle Bachmann, etc.) or are demonized by Democrats as greedy capitalists who don't care about the middle class (Ron Paul, Mitt Romney mostly. Funny how Republicans are seen as the rich guys, even though it's not like Democratic politicians aren't rich too, like Charlie Rangel using taxpayer dollars to buy a fucking cadillac.) Either way, Democrats can say to young people "Look how stupid and greedy they are! Come join us!" and all Democrats have to do is persuade them of ONE of these things.

The Democrats can say to younger people who are frustrated with the economy "The Republicans are greedy. Join us and we'll help you with our student loans and free shit!" or they can say to the more "intellectual" young people "Wow, look at what this stupid Republican said about vaccines. Do you want them to run the country? Vote for us." Either way, they win.

Progressives/neoliberals are very good at taking both the intellectual and moral high ground at the same time. Everyone just assumes they're right about everything. That corporations are evil, rich people are greedy and need to pay for everything, that being a republican means being a young earth creationist who thinks vaccines cause autism.

One more thing: FOX News is considered the only TV news outlet associated with "the right", and everyone who isn't a proud Republican hates FOX (although it's in reality no worse than MSNBC, and maybe CNN overall.) and so "the right" becomes associated with stupidity that no one takes seriously, and everyone retreats to "the left" thinking it makes them smarter...It's essential to disassociate the liberty movement from these cretins on "the right". It would also help to make people understand the political spectrum is much more than one dimensional--it's not "right" vs. "left". It's LIBERTARIAN vs. AUTHORITARIAN.