Homeopathy is a fraud, wake up people

[Truth Warrior]

All you need to know about homeopathy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U

And if after that, you find that you are still curious, http://www.reference.com/search?q=homeopathy

Ya really just gotta love the "All you NEED to know about ........" folks.

 

[JenHarris]

Hmmm, guess I'm a little confused about what, exactly, "homeopathic" medicine means or is.

If the argument is about the healing healing power of "magic crystals" and internal energy forces, yes, call me skeptic.

If MRS is saying that effective cures and relief from all sorts of ailments can not be found by using poultices, tinctures and oral administration of all sorts of plants, berries, roots and leaves, some of these remedies having been effective for thousands of years, then MRS is nuts.

And in no case would I ever dictate to anybody about what their choices should be in the matter of health care.

I think all that stuff you are talking about falls under Natural Medicine, Holistic Medicine, or Alternative Medicine. Homeopathy probably falls under Alternative Medicine but so do a lot of things like acupuncture and chiropractors. I'm not expert but that's my take on it

 

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

Hmmm, guess I'm a little confused about what, exactly, "homeopathic" medicine means or is.

If the argument is about the healing healing power of "magic crystals" and internal energy forces, yes, call me skeptic.

If MRS is saying that effective cures and relief from all sorts of ailments can not be found by using poultices, tinctures and oral administration of all sorts of plants, berries, roots and leaves, some of these remedies having been effective for thousands of years, then MRS is nuts.

And in no case would I ever dictate to anybody about what their choices should be in the matter of health care.

I think you are not alone. I suspect a lot of the "homeopathy supporters" here are talking about natural medicines like herbs and supplements and stuff. Which is completely not what homeopathy is, and not what Im talking about at all.

Homeopathy falls more in line with the "magic crystal" stuff. Its about taking a substance, diluting the substance completely out of the mixture, taking the imprints of that substance's energy force that somehow the water used in the dilution process "remembers", and using the final product to rebalanced the energy within your body.

 

[Cinderella]

never underestimate the power of the mind...what works for one person may not work for u...heck u may not even agree to it...but u shouldnt knock anyone for trying something that is outside the science box

 

[constituent]

I think you are not alone. I suspect a lot of the "homeopathy supporters" here are talking about natural medicines like herbs and supplements and stuff. Which is completely not what homeopathy is, and not what Im talking about at all.

Homeopathy falls more in line with the "magic crystal" stuff. Its about taking a substance, diluting the substance completely out of the mixture, taking the imprints of that substance's energy force that somehow the water used in the dilution process "remembers", and using the final product to rebalanced the energy within your body.

might check the dictionary on that one:

homeopathy [(hoh-mee-op-uh-thee)]

A system of treating disease in which small doses of certain substances are administered; in large doses, given to a healthy person, these substances would produce the symptoms of the disease. The principles of homeopathy do not enjoy widespread acceptance in the medical community.

point me to the magic crystals again (?).....

 

[Dr.3D]

might check the dictionary on that one:




point me to the magic crystals again (?).....

I believe what he meant was it is just as effective as the magic crystals stuff.

Use your dictionary to look up Placebo Effect.

 

[constituent]

I believe what he meant was it is just as effective as the magic crystals stuff.

Use your dictionary to look up Placebo Effect.

quite familiar.

it's part of my argument against modern medicine as well.

 

[constituent]

i think if we try to define homeopathy in the narrowest, wackiest terms possible, it is quite easy to marginalize and laugh at...

sorta like conservatism.

sorta like assuming "dilution" references solutions of compound "A" in water exclusively.

 

[freelance]

I still know people who swear by homeopathic medication. I really dont understand how they can fall for it.

Lets start with defining Homeopathy. Its a medication that is based on the idea that you can cure illness by giving people substances that would, in a healthy person, cause the same symptoms as the ill person. By diluting this substance, the toxic effects of the substance are removed, while retaining the qualities of it.

The first problem with this is the dilution levels. The higher the dilution, the more "potent" the stuff is. Now, other than the fact that this makes no sense and defies basic dose-response relationship, the dilution is often so hight that that it is unlikely that the final result chemically retains a SINGLE molecule of the original substance.

Most remedies have a dilution starting at 6C and move up from there. That means the concentration is 1:10^12. Comparably, the allowable levels of arsenic in US drinking water is 1:10^8. Meaning when you drink a homeopathic medication, you are likely getting a higher dosage of Arsenic than you are getting of the active ingredient.

However, thats just at the low end. The recommended dilution is 30C, or 1:10^60. Are there any chemistry fans in the audience? If so, you realize we just passed a special number. Once you pass Avogadro's Constant, 6.022 X 10^23, chances are there is not a single remaining molecule of the original substance. So a 12C solution, 1:10^24, on average has no trace left of the original substance. Its just water. Common remedies go as high as 200C.


Now all that is even assuming that the original proposition of curing illness by administering substance that causes the same symptoms in a healthy person, is even true. This is superstitious nonsense at best. There is no reason to believe this notion is true. Its beyond ridiculous, and is completely inconsistent with modern medical knowledge.

Not to mention the idea that the water molecules will sill somehow "remember" the effects of the original, substance that has now been completely diluted out of the composition. An idea like this is completely contrary to the laws of chemistry.


So Homeopathy is bogus. Yet people fall for it. Why? Ignorance. People are uneducated on matters of science.

Ever used arnica? Gee, they've been selling it at Walgreens and other big pharma outlets for YEARS.

 

[Dr.3D]

Better forget it Mitt, people don't understand what Avogadro's Number means and how little of the actual substance there is in such dilute substances.

It is like saying you threw a grain of rice into an olympic sized swimming pool full of water and then took a drop of water from that same swimming pool and hoped to get that grain of rice.

These are the same chances of getting one molecule of the original substance from the entire bottle of the dilutions being sold to unsuspecting people.

As I said before, it is the placebo effect that makes these things work.

If I were to sell a bag of Reeses Pieces all sorted out so only the red ones were in the bag and put instructions on the bag to swallow one of these every twelve hours, people would follow the instructions and get the same results. The bag could be labeled for such and such physical problem and that problem would be cured by following the instructions.

And believe it or not, around 50% of the time, the placebo effect will work on many people.

The biggest problem arises when people omit going to a medical doctor when they have a serious problem and instead rely on placebos to medicate themselves. Many die from doing such things every year.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Better forget it Mitt, people don't understand what Avogadro's Number means and how little of the actual substance there is in such dilute substances.

It is like saying you threw a grain of rice into an olympic sized swimming pool full of water and then took a drop of water from that same swimming pool and hoped to get that grain of rice.

These are the same chances of getting one molecule of the original substance from the entire bottle of the dilutions being sold to unsuspecting people.

As I said before, it is the placebo effect that makes these things work.

If I were to sell a bag of Reeses Pieces all sorted out so only the red ones were in the bag and put instructions on the bag to swallow one of these every twelve hours, people would follow the instructions and get the same results. The bag could be labeled for such and such physical problem and that problem would be cured by following the instructions.

And believe it or not, around 50% of the time, the placebo effect will work on many people.

The biggest problem arises when people omit going to a medical doctor when they have a serious problem and instead rely on placebos to medicate themselves. Many die from doing such things every year.

Many die from going to medical doctors every year too. 100,000 / year just from MD drug mistakes? Half of all MDs graduated in the bottom half of their class.

 

[Dr.3D]

Many die from going to medical doctors every year too. 100,000 / year just from MD drug mistakes? Half of all MDs graduated in the bottom half of their class.

Great, then perhaps we should just sit in the corner and suffer form our illness.

The point is, there is medicine and then there is placebos. You can choose which one you would like to trust. As for myself, I think I'll go with that has been tested and works. Sure accidents happen, that those are accidents.... not intentional poisonings.

What would you suggest when somebody is seriously ill, take two M&Ms and wait to see if they get better?

 

[Truth Warrior]

Great, then perhaps we should just sit in the corner and suffer form our illness.

The point is, there is medicine and then there is placebos. You can choose which one you would like to trust. As for myself, I think I'll go with that has been tested and works. Sure accidents happen, that those are accidents.... not intentional poisonings.

What would you suggest when somebody is seriously ill, take two M&Ms and wait to see if they get better?

Does the "Hippocratic Oath" ring ANY bells for you, AT ALL?

 

[Dr.3D]

Does the "Hippocratic Oath" ring ANY bells for you, AT ALL?

Yep, "First do no harm". this means intentionally. Accidents don't count.

Edit: Of course that is not anywhere in the Hippocratic Oath. LOL

 

[Truth Warrior]

Yep, "First do no harm". this means intentionally. Accidents don't count.

Edit: Of course that is not anywhere in the Hippocratic Oath. LOL

Malpractice and incompetence counts.

100,000 deaths / per year is NOT "accidents". It's system failure.

 

[Dr.3D]

Malpractice and incompetence counts.

100,000 deaths / per year is NOT "accidents". It's system failure.

How do you propose to fix the situation?

 

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

I dont see what malpractice has to do with this. Pointing out that there are bad doctors does not make homeopathy any more scientifically sound.


Does anyone here even understand the concept of Avogadro's constant?

 

[Dr.3D]

I dont see what malpractice has to do with this. Pointing out that there are bad doctors does not make homeopathy any more scientifically sound.


Does anyone here even understand the concept of Avogadro's constant?

The following link might help those who don't understand what Avogadro's Number is.

http://gemini.tntech.edu/~tfurtsch/scihist/avogadro.htm