Homeopathy is a fraud, wake up people

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

I still know people who swear by homeopathic medication. I really dont understand how they can fall for it.

Lets start with defining Homeopathy. Its a medication that is based on the idea that you can cure illness by giving people substances that would, in a healthy person, cause the same symptoms as the ill person. By diluting this substance, the toxic effects of the substance are removed, while retaining the qualities of it.

The first problem with this is the dilution levels. The higher the dilution, the more "potent" the stuff is. Now, other than the fact that this makes no sense and defies basic dose-response relationship, the dilution is often so hight that that it is unlikely that the final result chemically retains a SINGLE molecule of the original substance.

Most remedies have a dilution starting at 6C and move up from there. That means the concentration is 1:10^12. Comparably, the allowable levels of arsenic in US drinking water is 1:10^8. Meaning when you drink a homeopathic medication, you are likely getting a higher dosage of Arsenic than you are getting of the active ingredient.

However, thats just at the low end. The recommended dilution is 30C, or 1:10^60. Are there any chemistry fans in the audience? If so, you realize we just passed a special number. Once you pass Avogadro's Constant, 6.022 X 10^23, chances are there is not a single remaining molecule of the original substance. So a 12C solution, 1:10^24, on average has no trace left of the original substance. Its just water. Common remedies go as high as 200C.


Now all that is even assuming that the original proposition of curing illness by administering substance that causes the same symptoms in a healthy person, is even true. This is superstitious nonsense at best. There is no reason to believe this notion is true. Its beyond ridiculous, and is completely inconsistent with modern medical knowledge.

Not to mention the idea that the water molecules will sill somehow "remember" the effects of the original, substance that has now been completely diluted out of the composition. An idea like this is completely contrary to the laws of chemistry.


So Homeopathy is bogus. Yet people fall for it. Why? Ignorance. People are uneducated on matters of science.

 

[brandon]

Science is a fraud!!

 

[porcupine]

Anytime someone starts a post or titles the thread "wake up," I tend to discredit what they say. The same goes for all caps. I like the song though...so maybe it's unwarranted.

 

[PatriotOne]

I still know people who swear by homeopathic medication. I really dont understand how they can fall for it.

Lets start with defining Homeopathy. Its a medication that is based on the idea that you can cure illness by giving people substances that would, in a healthy person, cause the same symptoms as the ill person. By diluting this substance, the toxic effects of the substance are removed, while retaining the qualities of it.

The first problem with this is the dilution levels. The higher the dilution, the more "potent" the stuff is. Now, other than the fact that this makes no sense and defies basic dose-response relationship, the dilution is often so hight that that it is unlikely that the final result chemically retains a SINGLE molecule of the original substance.

Most remedies have a dilution starting at 6C and move up from there. That means the concentration is 1:10^12. Comparably, the allowable levels of arsenic in US drinking water is 1:10^8. Meaning when you drink a homeopathic medication, you are likely getting a higher dosage of Arsenic than you are getting of the active ingredient.

However, thats just at the low end. The recommended dilution is 30C, or 1:10^60. Are there any chemistry fans in the audience? If so, you realize we just passed a special number. Once you pass Avogadro's Constant, 6.022 X 10^23, chances are there is not a single remaining molecule of the original substance. So a 12C solution, 1:10^24, on average has no trace left of the original substance. Its just water. Common remedies go as high as 200C.


Now all that is even assuming that the original proposition of curing illness by administering substance that causes the same symptoms in a healthy person, is even true. This is superstitious nonsense at best. There is no reason to believe this notion is true. Its beyond ridiculous, and is completely inconsistent with modern medical knowledge.

Not to mention the idea that the water molecules will sill somehow "remember" the effects of the original, substance that has now been completely diluted out of the composition. An idea like this is completely contrary to the laws of chemistry.


So Homeopathy is bogus. Yet people fall for it. Why? Ignorance. People are uneducated on matters of science.

Ugh. You are a fraud. Senior troll.

 

[hypnagogue]

Homeopathic Medicine is more akin to Witch Doctory than Medicine. Anyhoo, It's interesting to know that the in the UK's Universal Healthcare System, Homeopathic medicine is one of the treatments that they cover, at great expense in fact. That'd burn me pretty good having to pay for some fools talismans and tinctures.

 

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

Homeopathic Medicine is more akin to Witch Doctory than Medicine. Anyhoo, It's interesting to know that the in the UK's Universal Healthcare System, Homeopathic medicine is one of the treatments that they cover, at great expense in fact. That'd burn me pretty good having to pay for some fools talismans and tinctures.

I hope they dont try to pull that crap over here.

 

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

Ugh. You are a fraud. Senior troll.

Ugh. You drink water and think its medicine.

 

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

So Homeopathy is bogus. Yet people fall for it. Why? Ignorance. People are uneducated on matters of science.

So don't use homeopathy and shut up. You are not saving anyone if they are only drinking water anyway.

If homeopathic remedies achieve a success rate of 3% above placebo, they are no more witch doctory than pharmaceuticals. If they achieve no more of an effect than a placebo, they are still helping 7% of the people that believe in them. With no side effects. I think there are things more deserving of your considerable ire than whether or not science has caught up with ancient remedies.

 

[amy31416]

I still know people who swear by homeopathic medication. I really dont understand how they can fall for it.

Lets start with defining Homeopathy. Its a medication that is based on the idea that you can cure illness by giving people substances that would, in a healthy person, cause the same symptoms as the ill person. By diluting this substance, the toxic effects of the substance are removed, while retaining the qualities of it.

The first problem with this is the dilution levels. The higher the dilution, the more "potent" the stuff is. Now, other than the fact that this makes no sense and defies basic dose-response relationship, the dilution is often so hight that that it is unlikely that the final result chemically retains a SINGLE molecule of the original substance.

Most remedies have a dilution starting at 6C and move up from there. That means the concentration is 1:10^12. Comparably, the allowable levels of arsenic in US drinking water is 1:10^8. Meaning when you drink a homeopathic medication, you are likely getting a higher dosage of Arsenic than you are getting of the active ingredient.

However, thats just at the low end. The recommended dilution is 30C, or 1:10^60. Are there any chemistry fans in the audience? If so, you realize we just passed a special number. Once you pass Avogadro's Constant, 6.022 X 10^23, chances are there is not a single remaining molecule of the original substance. So a 12C solution, 1:10^24, on average has no trace left of the original substance. Its just water. Common remedies go as high as 200C.


Now all that is even assuming that the original proposition of curing illness by administering substance that causes the same symptoms in a healthy person, is even true. This is superstitious nonsense at best. There is no reason to believe this notion is true. Its beyond ridiculous, and is completely inconsistent with modern medical knowledge.

Not to mention the idea that the water molecules will sill somehow "remember" the effects of the original, substance that has now been completely diluted out of the composition. An idea like this is completely contrary to the laws of chemistry.


So Homeopathy is bogus. Yet people fall for it. Why? Ignorance. People are uneducated on matters of science.

+1

In the same league as those people who think they can diagnose you by putting little bottles of various substances in your hands and pushing down on your arms to see if it's stronger or weaker. I've seen it done and it was total bullshit.

And don't think that these guys don't make a boatload of money off of desperate/ignorant people. It's sickening.

 

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

So don't use homeopathy and shut up. You are not saving anyone if they are only drinking water anyway.

If homeopathic remedies achieve a success rate of 3% above placebo, they are no more witch doctory than pharmaceuticals. If they achieve no more of an effect than a placebo, they are still helping 7% of the people that believe in them. With no side effects. I think there are things more deserving of your considerable ire than whether or not science has caught up with ancient remedies.

Homeopathy does hurt people. They fall for bogus claims instead of seeking out real help.

Every once in a while you see news stories of kids dying because their parents wanted to give them insect piss or something stupid rather than give them actual treatment.

And science "catching up" with ancient remedies? Absolutely ridiculous, your rejection of science and embracing quackery

 

[constituent]

They fall for bogus claims instead of seeking out real help.

Sounds like allopathy to me.

 

[Wendi]

Most remedies have a dilution starting at 6C and move up from there. That means the concentration is 1:10^12. Comparably, the allowable levels of arsenic in US drinking water is 1:10^8. Meaning when you drink a homeopathic medication, you are likely getting a higher dosage of Arsenic than you are getting of the active ingredient.

Nice red herring, since homeopathic remedies do not use drinking water for dilution

 

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

Homeopathy does hurt people. They fall for bogus claims instead of seeking out real help.

Every once in a while you see news stories of kids dying because their parents wanted to give them insect piss or something stupid rather than give them actual treatment.

And science "catching up" with ancient remedies? Absolutely ridiculous, your rejection of science and embracing quackery

(Sigh)

Let's see if you are ready for this.
Homeopathy deals with energy patterns. It is akin to making a permanent magnet out of a chunk of metal by rubbing it with a magnet in the proper way.
If you had no understanding of magnetism, you would hang someone for witchcraft.

The human body is made up of various elements. Remember your high school science class when you had to dip a little wooden stick into various solutions and observe the different color flames? Each element has its own frequency, and a combination of elements will have its own frequency; much like an orchestra.

When there is some sort of health challenge, the orchestra in the body is out of tune due to mineral imbalance, viral or bacterial infection or whatever. The prepared remedy with it's charged energy pattern will help reorganize the energy within the organism to deal with the health challenge at hand.

Whatever. I have seen it work even though I don't fully understand it.

This explanation is not perfect, but it may help some understand. Others will sneer and laugh much like McCain and Romney did when Ron Paul spoke in the debates. But that's OK, we understand that the mockers out there are just a little too lazy to look beyond the disinformation propagated by the entrenched oligarchs.

Besides, science is constantly progressing. The Tachyon event was discovered by reverse engineering a Ficus Benjamina plant and using it as an antennae. Science has still not been able to detect a tachyon event with modern equipment because even the most sensitive detection equipment is still 1000 times more clumsy than the ancient ficus bejamina plant.

Arrogance in science is building dead ends. Pure science would be studying what is not understood instead of denying that it exists. Remember, the bumblebee defied the laws of physics until we learned more about the principles of lift.

 

[dannno]

I take stingy nettle for allergies, along with quercetin.

When you get pricked by a stingy nettle plant, it hurts really bad causing a terrible reaction similar to an allergic reaction.

Perhaps there are enzymes or something in the plant which help protect itself from it's own 'poison' which it releases from it's needles.

Either way, I take it and my allergies go away.

You are saying that the basis of homeopathy is bogus because they are using the same substance to treat as what causes the condition in a healthy person.

Can you explain why western science is able to use snake venom in order to make snake anti-venom, yet homeopathy is not able to essentially do the same thing? Clearly there are elements in the snake or in the venom which protect itself from it's own venom, and these can be extracted for the benefit of humans.

There are tens of billions of dollars at stake in the pharmaceutical market. Doesn't it make sense that they would create information which attempts to discredit natural homeopathic treatments which are not as profitable as synthetic drugs? Do you notice that the pharmaceutical companies almost always seem to push for synthetic cures rather than natural cures? Most people can't make synthetic drugs, but most people can grow their own cures. This is not profitable for the pharmaceutical industry, so it is natural that there is a lot of backlash against these types of cures. It is up to you to be able to recognize these types of backlashes.

I'm not saying they all work, I'm just saying you shouldn't neccessarily buy into the anti-homeopathy propaganda until you have actual experience with the treatments.

 

[RJB]

Thanks Mittsidekick!

I personally only trust medications that are approved, studied and funded by unbiased billion dollar drug corporations. Everyone should be on vioxx, amphetamines (by prescription of course), and statin drugs.

Beware of anyone pushing dangerous subtances like vitamins, herbs, or homeopathic remedies. These aren't made by the caring pharma corporations.

 

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

Oh wow.

Homeopathy is not based on real science. Take an introductory chemistry course.

The claims of homeopathy violate the fundamentals of basic chemistry.

 

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

I take stingy nettle for allergies, along with quercetin.

When you get pricked by a stingy nettle plant, it hurts really bad causing a terrible reaction similar to an allergic reaction.

Perhaps there are enzymes or something in the plant which help protect itself from it's own 'poison' which it releases from it's needles.

Either way, I take it and my allergies go away.

You are saying that the basis of homeopathy is bogus because they are using the same substance to treat as what causes the condition in a healthy person.

Can you explain why western science is able to use snake venom in order to make snake anti-venom, yet homeopathy is not able to essentially do the same thing? Clearly there are elements in the snake or in the venom which protect itself from it's own venom, and these can be extracted for the benefit of humans.

There are tens of billions of dollars at stake in the pharmaceutical market. Doesn't it make sense that they would create information which attempts to discredit natural homeopathic treatments which are not as profitable as synthetic drugs? Do you notice that the pharmaceutical companies almost always seem to push for synthetic cures rather than natural cures? Most people can't make synthetic drugs, but most people can grow their own cures. This is not profitable for the pharmaceutical industry, so it is natural that there is a lot of backlash against these types of cures. It is up to you to be able to recognize these types of backlashes.

I'm not saying they all work, I'm just saying you shouldn't neccessarily buy into the anti-homeopathy propaganda until you have actual experience with the treatments.

You are talking about using the original substance to create a vaccine.

Homeopathy is a completely different concept, based on "disturbing energy forces".

Really, none of that matters because the required high levels of dilution leaves you with a "remedy" that on average will not contain a single molecule of the original substance.


In the end, homeopathy fails at science

 

[RJB]

Oh wow.

Homeopathy is not based on real science. Take an introductory chemistry course.

The claims of homeopathy violate the fundamentals of basic chemistry.

I have up to and including biochem. Comparing homeopathy to chemistry is like comparing the earth to an apple.

Keep trusting what the drug companies tell you.

 

[Isaac Bickerstaff]

Oh wow.

Homeopathy is not based on real science. Take an introductory chemistry course.

The claims of homeopathy violate the fundamentals of basic chemistry.

If you study chemistry a little more than just the intro courses, you may begin to see how homeopathy could actually work. If you just study the intro courses and believe you know something, I feel sorry for you, Kid.

 

[hypnagogue]

If you study chemistry a little more than just the intro courses, you may begin to see how homeopathy could actually work.

But you probably won't because it's completely implausible that an ingredient which is not in your medicine could cure you of anything.

Btw, what kind of energy were you talking about? Thermal, kinetic, electromagnetic, potential, etc. etc.