Historian says Trump should prove NYT report on his taxes is 'fake news'

[Sonny Tufts]

Since the Income Tax is unconstitutional, Trump is right not to pay Taxes.

So which theory do you subscribe to -- the 16th Amendment was never ratified; the income tax is a direct tax; Congress can tax only in the so-called "federal areas"; requiring the filing or a return violates the 4th and 5th Amendments; or something else?

 

[Sammy]

So which theory do you subscribe to -- the 16th Amendment was never ratified; the income tax is a direct tax; Congress can tax only in the so-called "federal areas"; requiring the filing or a return violates the 4th and 5th Amendments; or something else?

I oppose personal Taxes. I only support Tariffs & excise taxes like before 1913.

 

[Sonny Tufts]

I oppose personal Taxes. I only support Tariffs & excise taxes like before 1913.

I wasn't asking why you opposed the income tax, only why you believe it to be unconstitutional. And btw, the income tax is an excise and it existed well before 1913.

 

[Suzu]

I'm talking about ... Trump only paying $1,500 in income taxes over two years when he actually paid about $6 million. $1,500 is just what he owed.

Can you give me a link to some documentation of that factoid? (outside of NYT please) TIA

 

[dannno]

Can you give me a link to some documentation of that factoid? (outside of NYT please) TIA

The NYT article is the source of all of the information.

The first line of the original article, entitled, "Trump Paid $750 in Federal Income Taxes in 2017. Here’s the Math."

The small amount of federal income taxes President Trump paid in both 2016 and 2017 — just $750 each year

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/us/trump-750-taxes.html

From the article entitled, "The President’s TaxesLong-Concealed Records Show Trump’s Chronic Losses and Years of Tax Avoidance"

Each time, he requested an extension to file his 1040; and each time, he made the required payment to the I.R.S. for income taxes he might owe — $1 million for 2016 and $4.2 million for 2017. But virtually all of that liability was washed away when he eventually filed, and most of the payments were rolled forward to cover potential taxes in future years.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html


Of course the entire premise is BS.. he was losing money those years, because he was running for President and was President during that time. So why should he pay taxes if he is losing money?!

Of course, his business is responsible for tens of millions in taxes, so the business pays plenty of taxes. This is all complete BS by people who are either lying or don't know anything about taxes.

They are worried about his debt obligations, which is totally normal.. it's just going to roll over. And his asset to debt ratio is very good.

Also, the tax "loophole" that allowed Trump to expense $72 million that is currently being audited was passed by none other than Obama.

 

[Pauls' Revere]

I am sure that Trump's tax returns are extremely complicated and not easily understood by most people.

Trump to Biden: "You voted for the tax breaks and cuts for 47 years"

 

[Sonny Tufts]

Of course, his business is responsible for tens of millions in taxes, so the business pays plenty of taxes. This is all complete BS by people who are either lying or don't know anything about taxes.

You should learn something about taxes yourself. The vast majority of his companies, if not all, are limited liability companies ("LLC's"), which pay no federal income tax. Instead, their income and losses flow through to the owners of the LLC's and are reported on their individual tax returns. See https://extapps2.oge.gov/201/Presiden.nsf/PAS+Index/181BAF52E298FD70852585B70027E054/$FILE/Trump,%20Donald%20J.%202020Annual%20278.pdf

 

[Madison320]

Not quite. The report said that for tax years 2005-2007 he paid $70.1 million in federal income tax. He also paid $24.3 million in alternative minimum tax for seven years between 2000 and 2017. But in 2010 he claimed a refund of $72.9 million, based upon alleged business losses of $1.4 billion. Assuming the losses were genuine he was entitled to carry them back to prior years and receive a refund.

But a refund of that size has to be approved by the Joint Committee on Taxation, a bipartisan congressional committee. It apparently did so based on an audit that was sent to it before approving the refund but that was reopened after the refund was made and that has remained open to this day. The sticking point may be claimed losses of $700 million for 2009 relating to Trump's alleged abandonment of a partnership interest that may be related to his failed Atlantic City casinos. Far from finding that Trump was "totally clean", the legitimacy of the refund and the claimed losses has yet to be finally determined.

As far as the "tens of millions of dollars in taxes that his businesses produced and paid", the fact is that Trump's businesses lost tons and tons of money, not to mention that most of them are flow-through entities (such as limited liability companies) that pay no federal income tax anyway. The only taxes these entities would likely have paid were employment taxes and various local taxes.

It's dishonest to single out any particular time period when talking about the taxes paid by someone like Trump. He might get a refund of 10 million one year and then pay 20 million the next. The important question is how much did he pay on average over a long period of time. I'm guessing it's more than 99% of the population.

 

[Firestarter]

So basically what the report found was nothing. It's a big nothingburger, and the real story is that after looking at Trump's tax returns, they found that he was totally clean.

The report surely was so BIG in order to ensure that nobody reads it!

For many people these days unable to read anything longer than a Twitter message, this article seems to argue that Donald Trump really is a great businessman, by using the laws to lower his taxes to almost 0. In 10 of the previous 15 years, “billionaire” Trump paid no (0) income taxes, and in 2016 and 2017 Trump paid only a combined $1500.

In 2010, Donald claimed and received an income tax refund totalling $72.9 million (the federal income tax he had paid for 2005 to 2008). That was with the help of legislation entered by President Obama.
Then from 2011 to 2014, “billionaire” Donald paid no federal taxes at all (0).

Of course the entire premise is BS.. he was losing money those years, because he was running for President and was President during that time. So why should he pay taxes if he is losing money?!

Most people won’t find the single “bombshell” buried in this recently published very long New York Times article (did you actually read it?!?).
The article shows that Donald Trump was able to lower his taxes for 18 years by deducting his more than $900 million in losses in 1990, when he went bankrupt.

Where it gets “criminal” behaviour by the Donald is that he never paid those losses back to his handlers/lenders, so he shouldn’t be allowed to deduct it.

Here’s how the NYT one time in the whole long article explains that Donald really is in trouble with the IRS.

If the I.R.S. learns that the owner received anything of value, the allowable losses are reduced to just $3,000 a year. And Mr. Trump does appear to have received something. When the casino bankruptcy concluded, he got 5 percent of the stock in the new company.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ot-very-rich&p=6982540&viewfull=1#post6982540

 

[dannno]

You should learn something about taxes yourself. The vast majority of his companies, if not all, are limited liability companies ("LLC's"), which pay no federal income tax. Instead, their income and losses flow through to the owners of the LLC's and are reported on their individual tax returns. See https://extapps2.oge.gov/201/Presiden.nsf/PAS+Index/181BAF52E298FD70852585B70027E054/$FILE/Trump,%20Donald%20J.%202020Annual%20278.pdf

You should learn something about taxes. I never limited my scope to "income tax", YOU DID. And all of the deceptive news agencies out there.. His businesses generate millions in tax revenue, and LLCs pay corporate taxes. Just because you call a tax some other kind of tax doesn't mean it doesn't get paid.

 

[eleganz]

The report surely was so BIG in order to ensure that nobody reads it!

For many people these days unable to read anything longer than a Twitter message, this article seems to argue that Donald Trump really is a great businessman, by using the laws to lower his taxes to almost 0. In 10 of the previous 15 years, “billionaire” Trump paid no (0) income taxes, and in 2016 and 2017 Trump paid only a combined $1500.

In 2010, Donald claimed and received an income tax refund totalling $72.9 million (the federal income tax he had paid for 2005 to 2008). That was with the help of legislation entered by President Obama.
Then from 2011 to 2014, “billionaire” Donald paid no federal taxes at all (0).



Most people won’t find the single “bombshell” buried in this recently published very long New York Times article (did you actually read it?!?).
The article shows that Donald Trump was able to lower his taxes for 18 years by deducting his more than $900 million in losses in 1990, when he went bankrupt.

Where it gets “criminal” behaviour by the Donald is that he never paid those losses back to his handlers/lenders, so he shouldn’t be allowed to deduct it.

Here’s how the NYT one time in the whole long article explains that Donald really is in trouble with the IRS.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ot-very-rich&p=6982540&viewfull=1#post6982540

Isn't it funny how emotionally triggered by Trump some are that they will try to argue, on a anti-tax forum of all places, how "criminal" it is to not give them what you [MENTION=65707]Firestarter[/MENTION]) thinks someone should give the IRS, without having any clear understanding their financial situation.



Everybody that does business and especially those that have been audited know exactly how the IRS works with the private sector.

1. You write off whatever you can get away with (because you do your own taxes, nobody does it for you).
2. You pay the IRS what you think you owe or what you think you can get away with.
2. If the IRS has any issues they will look for it and fine you if they fine something that doesn't go with the "code".
3. You make your arguments, appeals and take the IRS to court if you like. Most make the IRS a reasonable offer to get the feds off their back.

Trump is already being audited so he is in step 3. The IRS is meticulous, moreso than NYT or our resident follow-the-tax-code-or-you're-a-criminal [MENTION=65707]Firestarter[/MENTION] (registered aug. 2016). If he is owed something that he has been hiding, they will ask him to pay it and he will fire lawyers and advisors to beat it, whichever is less expensive. Whatever he ends up giving the IRS, they will both be happy with. Ultra high net worth individuals like Trump has every asset available to him to make his taxes and holdings kosher, usually its bullet-proof.



[MENTION=65707]Firestarter[/MENTION], in his own words, is labeling any "behavior" that he does not agree with, "criminal". That means if any of us libertarians are creative with our tax situations, can also be deemed "criminal" if he doesn't like it.

I think its pretty clear by now that [MENTION=65707]Firestarter[/MENTION] has an agenda here. TDS tax trolls are not welcome.

 

[Firestarter]

I think its pretty clear by now that @Firestarter has an agenda here. TDS tax trolls are not welcome.

Such a vile ad hominem attack by @eleganz would be a lot more convincing if I had posted extensively on taxes, which I haven't.

@Firestarter, in his own words, is labeling any "behavior" that he does not agree with, "criminal". That means if any of us libertarians are creative with our tax situations, can also be deemed "criminal" if he doesn't like it.

Thanks for another example of your mindnumbing stupidity; I really needed that!

Trump was the frontman for a cabal that plundered 2 casinos for more than $1 billion.
In this he has become the perfect little puppet of his handlers/lenders that give him just enough to keep him afloat. As a bonus they gave him the opportunity to lower his taxes for 18 year, with losses that he never paid in the first place.

If he really is a good gopher for the (real) billionaires, he gets a discount on the money he owes every couple of years.
In this way they keep him as the little obedienbt slave he is. Now that he's crowned president he can really reward his handlers!

The article shows that Donald Trump was able to lower his taxes for 18 years by deducting his more than $900 million in losses in 1990, when he went bankrupt.

Where it gets “criminal” behaviour by the Donald is that he never paid those losses back to his handlers/lenders, so he shouldn’t be allowed to deduct it.

Here’s how the NYT one time in the whole long article explains that Donald really is in trouble with the IRS.

If the I.R.S. learns that the owner received anything of value, the allowable losses are reduced to just $3,000 a year. And Mr. Trump does appear to have received something. When the casino bankruptcy concluded, he got 5 percent of the stock in the new company.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ot-very-rich&p=6982540&viewfull=1#post6982540

 

[eleganz]

Such a vile ad hominem attack by @eleganz would be a lot more convincing if I had posted extensively on taxes, which I haven't.



Thanks for another example of your mindnumbing stupidity; I really needed that!

Trump was the frontman for a cabal that plundered 2 casinos for more than $1 billion.
In this he has become the perfect little puppet of his handlers/lenders that give him just enough to keep him afloat. As a bonus they gave him the opportunity to lower his taxes for 18 year, with losses that he never paid in the first place.

If he really is a good gopher for the (real) billionaires, he gets a discount on the money he owes every couple of years.
In this way they keep him as the little obedienbt slave he is. Now that he's crowned president he can really reward his handlers!

Thank you for discrediting yourself further and continuing to prove my point for me.

If you weren't a tax troll, you'd dispute the argument instead of shifting the topic away from yourself. Maybe you didn't get the memo when hired to troll RPF but this place is not tax friendly. Anyone stupid enough to bash tax-creatives, tax-avoiders (whatever you want to call them) on RPF, deserves to be labeled a tax troll.

Your -reps only make me more powerful [MENTION=65707]Firestarter[/MENTION] (registered Aug. 2016).