Hey if you guys believe there is fraud going on...

[Ivash]

Then send your proof to MSNBC. I know ya'll distrust the media in general, but that new station is so pro-liberal that they'd love an opportunity to besmirch the GOP and all of their candidates. And this, if true, would be a huge story that they'd love to cash in on, as well as pretty much guaranteeing that the Republicans would not win the election. Who'd want to vote for a cheating party?

 

[Ivash]

And let me clarify (and bump this post): this isn't a challenge over whether or not you guys have proof of fraud. I honestly believe that this would be the best way to get Dr. Paul back into the race. Imagine how much difficult the other campaigns would have if they were connected to fraud. Even if they didn't actually have anything to do with it, if they benefited from it at all it would be disastrous. Who but Ron Paul (and the libertarian movement in general) could benefit from this?

Also, it would be a definite issue for the general, so even if Romney or (less likely) Santorum were to win, the Democrats would have a huge target to hit. The Republicans would pretty much get blown out. And while it would really anger the Republican Elite, they already are no friends of Dr. Paul, and it would bring more voters to the libertarian poll.

 

[Give me liberty]

The Fraud has happening since 2000, with the dead people voting in SC and elsewhere.

 

[tbone717]

The Fraud has happening since 2000, with the dead people voting in SC and elsewhere.

You do realize that there was a plausible explanation for the dead people in SC. We've seen that stuff happen plenty of times before in elections - people filing an absentee ballot before they die, and people being checked in on the wrong box on the voter rolls. It was less that 1000 votes, about 0.1% of the total votes cast. Hardly something that would be classified as fraud, especially since they came from various parts of the state.

 

[VCU for Ron Paul]

No MSM program would ever willingly expose voter fraud. MSNBC and Fox etc. share the same main goals, they only bicker and fight over who gets to play the lead role and who gets to play the sidekick in the next season of their sitcom. They would never want something as powerful as the power to manipulate votes jeopardized by waking too many people up.

 

[DerickVonD]

No MSM program would ever willingly expose voter fraud. MSNBC and Fox etc. share the same main goals, they only bicker and fight over who gets to play the lead role and who gets to play the sidekick in the next season of their sitcom. They would never want something as powerful as the power to manipulate votes jeopardized by waking too many people up.

PBS better luck?

 

[dannno]

PBS better luck?

Not bloody likely.

Try infowars.

 

[kathy88]

What about Radio? I bet Mike Church would LOVE to break this story.

 

[Ivash]

No MSM program would ever willingly expose voter fraud. MSNBC and Fox etc. share the same main goals, they only bicker and fight over who gets to play the lead role and who gets to play the sidekick in the next season of their sitcom. They would never want something as powerful as the power to manipulate votes jeopardized by waking too many people up.

Huh, I'm personally of the belief that news corps want money over manipulative power. But even assuming what you say is true, then this would actually play right into their hands. What better was to smash the Republicans (and boost their own profile with the Democrats) than by literally ripping the Republican Party apart? If proven that fraud was A) deliberate, and B) statistically significant (if there was somehow a good explanation for it, or if it wasn't enough votes to even matter, then it wouldn't be a powerful story at all), then it could easily tear apart the Republican party. MSNBC would be rolling in cash as people flocked to see the news break.

The thing is, centralized media is in trouble right now. I could see it surviving in the mid-future, but decentralized media is coming to the fore. Regardless, however, people are always going to be influenced by who is telling them about the news. Thus, why would the MSNBC be afraid of people 'walking up', as long as its the other team's members that are walking up? Their team members will eat it up, and actually be strengthened in their faith in their own party since there would be no evidence (yet) of mass voter manipulations for the Democratic Party. Thus, strengthened in their resolve, more Democrats will be swayed towards the most liberal mass media they can find- which would be MSNBC.

 

[DerickVonD]

I wish we could get the anonymous hacker group to shut down the news satellites somehow 0_0

 

[The Other Andy]

In Wisconsin there's one county (Waukesha) that frequently reports results, then changes them significantly the next day after the winner is announced. They even posted a 97.3% turnout in the 2004 Presidential election. Even countries with mandatory voting don't have turnout rates like that. To add insult to injury, the county clerk keeps the vote tallies on her personal computer.

The media puts out a blurb or two each election, but nothing is ever done about it. The county is a republican stronghold and they won't threaten their power, even if it means allowing fraud.

 

[Give me liberty]

You do realize that there was a plausible explanation for the dead people in SC. We've seen that stuff happen plenty of times before in elections - people filing an absentee ballot before they die, and people being checked in on the wrong box on the voter rolls. It was less that 1000 votes, about 0.1% of the total votes cast. Hardly something that would be classified as fraud, especially since they came from various parts of the state.

Still i believe there is Fraud that has happened in this election.

 

[tbone717]

Still i believe there is Fraud that has happened in this election.

And that is fine to believe that, but it does need to be substantiated with proof. There are some, and I am not referring to you specifically, that confuse fraud with irregularities. A screw up on less than 1000 votes all throughout a state like SC isn't fraud it's a screw up and that stuff happens in nearly every election, every year. It's not a perfect process. Fraud is a serious thing, so we just need to be careful before we make allegations of fraud that we have real credible evidence and not merely speculation.

 

[Ivash]

And that is fine to believe that, but it does need to be substantiated with proof. There are some, and I am not referring to you specifically, that confuse fraud with irregularities. A screw up on less than 1000 votes all throughout a state like SC isn't fraud it's a screw up and that stuff happens in nearly every election, every year. It's not a perfect process. Fraud is a serious thing, so we just need to be careful before we make allegations of fraud that we have real credible evidence and not merely speculation.

The thing is that I see a lot of allegation of fraud on this site. Heck, in the pats 24 hours I've seen multiple posts saying they have proof of such fraud. I, personally, don't think fraud is happening on such a large scale as people believe it is- despite what people here think, most of the Republican Elite still don't take Ron Paul seriously as a threat. Heck, even during the Iowa Caucus they were more worried about 'ruining' Iowa's credibility than Ron Paul's victory (and this was repeated in private just as much, if not more, than in public). I don't think they consider the libertarian strain of the party enough of a threat yet to resort to absolutely desperate measures.

You have to remember that the GOP has a lot of foes (as does any major political party in the world). They got hold of real, significant pre-determined fraud, the GOP would be ruined. Absolutely shot. Thus, only in the most dire of situations will they resort to such a thing. President Obama would love to find proof of Republican fraud. The liberal portions of the media would also love to find it, as would a large chunk of the American political (and even a decent part of the non-political) blogosphere, and, heck, the internet in general. As I said above, major parties have major enemies.

If they aren't finding it, there is an extremely good chance it doesn't exist. And if you guys really think you have found some evidence, show it to a (liberal) news media outlet. If it really is proof, they will blast it up to the high heavens. If the GOP folds, the Democrats could easily hold onto all positions of power for two or maybe even three decades- don't you think the Dems would kill for that? And make no mistake- pretty much the worst thing an American political party could do was deliberate fraud. It would be seen as unforgivable by the general population. And that is because it isn't tied to a single person- Nixon might have been hated, but he wasn't the GOP. He was just one man. If there is evidence of significant fraud across multiple states (if it was just, say, Maine, then it could be blame on the person running that system, rather than a systematic thing. It would still hurt the GOP's credibility, though), that would confirm that there is a conspiracy, and that could easily destroy the GOP.

 

[thoughtomator]

MSNBC is owned by a major war contractor... they are not going to be allies in anything

 

[tbone717]

The thing is that I see a lot of allegation of fraud on this site. Heck, in the pats 24 hours I've seen multiple posts saying they have proof of such fraud. I, personally, don't think fraud is happening on such a large scale as people believe it is- despite what people here think, most of the Republican Elite still don't take Ron Paul seriously as a threat. Heck, even during the Iowa Caucus they were more worried about 'ruining' Iowa's credibility than Ron Paul's victory (and this was repeated in private just as much, if not more, than in public). I don't think they consider the libertarian strain of the party enough of a threat yet to resort to absolutely desperate measures.

You have to remember that the GOP has a lot of foes (as does any major political party in the world). They got hold of real, significant pre-determined fraud, the GOP would be ruined. Absolutely shot. Thus, only in the most dire of situations will they resort to such a thing. President Obama would love to find proof of Republican fraud. The liberal portions of the media would also love to find it, as would a large chunk of the American political (and even a decent part of the non-political) blogosphere, and, heck, the internet in general. As I said above, major parties have major enemies.

If they aren't finding it, there is an extremely good chance it doesn't exist. And if you guys really think you have found some evidence, show it to a (liberal) news media outlet. If it really is proof, they will blast it up to the high heavens. If the GOP folds, the Democrats could easily hold onto all positions of power for two or maybe even three decades- don't you think the Dems would kill for that? And make no mistake- pretty much the worst thing an American political party could do was deliberate fraud. It would be seen as unforgivable by the general population. And that is because it isn't tied to a single person- Nixon might have been hated, but he wasn't the GOP. He was just one man. If there is evidence of significant fraud across multiple states (if it was just, say, Maine, then it could be blame on the person running that system, rather than a systematic thing. It would still hurt the GOP's credibility, though), that would confirm that there is a conspiracy, and that could easily destroy the GOP.

Right and vote fraud requires a conspiracy. Multiple people conspiring to change the outcome of an election. I think many people think the GOP is some monolithic entity, but in reality it is not. It is people like you and I that are simply volunteering or in a low paid elected position. They do so because they have a desire to serve their community. I personally know the director of elections for my county - he is a regular guy, as are my county GOP committeemen. It takes a huge stretch of the imagination to think that they all gathered together in a secret back room and all conspired to change the outcome of the election and report the totals to be the direct opposite of what they are. And the other problem with a conspiracy - one person blows the whistle and it all comes tumbling down. So honestly for all the talk of fraud we have on here, I have seen no hard proof that would stand up in a court of law as a legitimate violation of the law.

If you folks have it, get a lawyer, take it to court and prove it. Because if it is truly occurring and you do have evidence, then those that have committed fraud should be punished.

 

[RonRules]

I have my favorite reporter, a fearless man that has covered stories that basically no one dared to cover. It's not Ben Swan, but he's a similar type of guy. I'm working on the Vote flipping analysis as quickly as I can find the time. We need more help to analyze the following states:
AK, WA, ID, NV, WY, ND, OK, TN, GA, MI, OH, VT, MA

We're not ready to go to the press yet. Only a statistician reacts (violently) to this vote flipping stuff. Other people I show it to go: "meh."

We need people to collect the remaining data, a couple more analysts and a good science/math disseminator with good writing/presentation skills.

 

[justatrey]

MSNBC is owned by a major war contractor... they are not going to be allies in anything

This. MSNBC -> NBC -> 50% owned by GE -> largely controlled by military-industial complex -> will NEVER do anything that benefits Ron Paul or the cause of liberty/truth.

And LOL to think that there is no election fraud. Of course there is fraud, and of course it hurts Ron Paul. Do you really think that the establishment/powers that be HATE Ron Paul, and the mainstream media marginalizes/ignores him 24/7, but they'll just forget the fact that they hate him when it comes to counting votes? Really? There is fraud. The only reasonable question is how much fraud is there?

 

[tbone717]

I have my favorite reporter, a fearless man that has covered stories that basically no one dared to cover. It's not Ben Swan, but he's a similar type of guy. I'm working on the Vote flipping analysis as quickly as I can find the time. We need more help to analyze the following states:
AK, WA, ID, NV, WY, ND, OK, TN, GA, MI, OH, VT, MA

We're not ready to go to the press yet. Only a statistician reacts (violently) to this vote flipping stuff. Other people I show it to go: "meh."

We need people to collect the remaining data, a couple more analysts and a good science/math disseminator with good writing/presentation skills.

Why the press? Why not a lawyer instead and move to prosecute the people you are accusing?

 

[wgadget]

How about proof of shenanigans? To see that, just go to the local GOP conventions being held this weekend.

Acting in concert to thwart Ron Paul supporters is just plain dirty, if not fraudulent.

IMO.