Hey Campaign and Sunshine Blowers - the LP already exists!!

Tim724

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Jun 6, 2007
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My response to the offical campaign's new attitude and all the people blowing sunshine in their obituary-esque reflections on the campaign's successes is THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY ALREADY EXISTS. OK, so we have been a bit more successful than the LP, but these people are relegating us to a SLIGHTLY BETTER LP with all this talk about "look how far we have come, we are building a liberty movement starting at local levels, blah blah."

Excuse me for not getting warm and fuzzy as people like Jack Hunter, Trevor Lyman, that guy on LRC, and others expect us to get excited about doing THE EXACT SAME THING THE LP HAS BEEN DOING FOR DECADES. The LP's efforts aren't without merit (I've been registered LP in the past and given them money), but the end results are pretty paltry. The RP campaign was supposed to be about GOING ALL-IN for a big win. I guess I believed Dr Paul when he kept saying that HE IS IN THIS RACE TO WIN. While nice, I am not going to start jumping up and down over a NEW AND IMPROVERD LIBERTARIAN PARTY.

And, who's side is Benton on? He should be doing his job to publicize all the dirty tricks being used AGAINST US, rather than slapping us (those who pay his salary) on the wrist for occassional rude behaviour that amounts to 1/100th of what has been done against us. Where are the press releases about our people getting locked out, getting punched, getting the lights turned off, etc. at the state conventions?? - the liberal HuffPo covered it better than our own campaign. There are some who think this is "all part of a plan" to lull the opposition and Benton is a secret genious, but I don't buy it. I am very afraid the campaign is going to LET THE RP CANDIDACY GO OUT WITH A WIMPER IN THE NIGHT.

I'm not giving up, but this campaign is disheartening. And, all this drivel about a slow process of spreading liberty so that maybe our grandchildren will have marginally more freedom than us is an F'N' BOOBY PRIZE.

MY PREFERRED PLAN OF ACTION IS VERY SIMPLE: stay aggressive with delegate building, go 110% into the convention, be strategically disruptive at the convention as necessary, and encourage ALL RP supporters to vote RP on the FIRST BALLOT (regardless of being "bound"). If we still lose after that, I'd be OK with it because we did everything we could instead of QUITTING EARLY LIKE A BUNCH OF WEAKLING LOSERS.

I fear the campaign has TRADED AWAY THE WHOLE SHEBANG for a mere primetime speech or some toothless committment to get behind Rand in the future, perhaps with the added cherry on top for Jesse Benton with a career in the GOP establishment. I pray they didn't give away the farm, sell us short, and trade away all the delegate power we fought so hard for plus all the political capital we've build over 5+ years FOR PEANUTS.

The establishment would like nothing better than for us to politely abide by their rules and then at bedtime go to our rooms and quietly play with our toys, knowing our place as an impotent little "educational" movement out on the margin of politics. Sure, they'll let us feel statisfied with a few little town council posts and maybe even a congressman or two to keep us placated. But basically, we remain powerless as leviathin marches on. Going all-out-balls-to-the-wall at the convention and losing would atleast be an awesome show of force, get us heard, and encourage others to join.
 
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I'd like to see Ron Paul make a 10 minute speech responding line-by-line to every sentence. :)
 
re: starting at local levels

LP < LiberTea

  • A LP Senate candidate (for example) would often/always be excluded from the best (TV) debates. Now our candidates starting at local levels are in a major party, so a primary win = 1 on 1 prime-time debates and a great chance of winning.
  • Plus, holding party positions at local levels gives our people a better chance of winning primaries.

So the current strategy does work (i.e. Sen Rand Paul), but not for the third-party LP.
 
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Does it exist though? I can't remember ever meeting an LP congressman, senator, state senator or assemblyman.
 
@Indy - I'll definately support any such future efforts. I'm just saying it ain't some great prize considering all the work and money put into the RP campaigns. AFTER the convention I'd be much more receptive to focusing on this kind of stuff. I am upset about the prospect of essentially walking off the track in the final lap of a long race. I say, win or lose, we need to finish with as much glory at the convention as possible. The campaign is probably making the calculation that we can't piss off the establishment because we'll need to work with them later, but I'm just not onboard with that strategy. The establishment is filled with cheaters and thugs and only listen when spoken to in their own language...showing weakness is a mistake. I think a show of force is needed.
 
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re: starting at local levels

LP < LiberTea

  • A LP Senate candidate (for example) would often/always be excluded from the best (TV) debates. Now our candidates starting at local levels are in major party, so a primary win = 1 on 1 prime-time debates and a great chance of winning.
  • Plus, holding party positions at local levels gives our people a better chance of winning primaries.

So the current strategy does work (i.e. Sen Rand Paul), but not for the third-party LP.

The Republican/Democratic parties weren't the first, and won't be the last. It would take some work, but you could get the LP recognized just like either of the two parties now.
 
@Indy - I'll definately support any such future efforts. I'm just saying it ain't some great prize considering all the work and money put into the RP campaigns. AFTER the convention I'd be much more receptive to focusing on this kind of stuff. I am upset about the prospect of essentially walking off the track in the final lap of a long race. I say, win or lose, we need to finish with as much glory at the convention as possible. The campaign is probably making the calculation that we can't piss off the establishment because we'll need to work with them later, but I'm just not onboard with that strategy. The establishment is filled with cheaters and thugs and only listen when spoken to in their own language...showing weakness is a mistake. I think a show of force is needed.

I don't believe for one second that Ron is trying to get on the good side of the establishment. He has been on their bad side for 40 years and hasn't budged and inch in their direction. I believe that there is a strategy behind this, and the reason I say that is because Ron is an honest guy and I do not believe that he would continue to lead us on if he didn't think we had a shot. I also believe that he knows that if he did, and we didn't like the result, then this entire movement will be lost. Ron is much smarter than that and I think people fail to realize just how smart he truly is. He's not going to let this movement die.
 
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I have a hard time seeing why I cant support both the Libertarians and the Liberty Republicans at the same time.
 
I don't believe for one second that Ron is trying to get on the good side of the establishment. He has been on their bad side for 40 years and hasn't budged and inch in their direction.

Dr Paul is actually very big on building coalitions and working with people on specific issues who he doesn't agree with on many others. All the while, he never bends on his beliefs. I think this will be an example of that.
 
Ron Paul was done the same way in 08. And look what a difference our support made this time around.

The libertarian movement could be as big as this and bigger. In all actuality, they have more members than the RP supporters. They are established in every state.
After this election season, if RP doesn't get the NOD, I will be turning my support back to the LP.

As for now, I'm still a RP delegate. I'm still supporting the fight for the win. That is, until RP loses or publically states he won't accept the nod if he wins.
 
The LP? Is that the same party that runs on the platform of decriminalizing child porn, drugs and prostitution? That one? Good luck. lol
And the alternative is......Republicans? Is that the same party that runs on the platform of "Israel first" with never-ending pre-emptive wars and social policies that attempt to set us back to the Stone Age? :rolleyes:

It would probably be just as easy to transform the LP as it would be to transform the GOP.
 
And the alternative is......Republicans? Is that the same party that runs on the platform of "Israel first" with never-ending pre-emptive wars and social policies that attempt to set us back to the Stone Age? :rolleyes:
Like it or not, that platform sells to a lot more people.

It would probably be just as easy to transform the LP as it would be to transform the GOP.
My comment had nothing to do with transforming from the inside; but rather the public image the media has bestowed upon it.
 
The LP would need a major facelift to be a player. That means major funding and having candidates in local and state office not post official photos while wearing overalls. It would mean clarifying that they dont want to decriminalize child porn but they want it out of governments domain and dealt with by existing local and state law. Thats what I meant in another thread when i said they have existing baggage.
 
Ron Paul was done the same way in 08. And look what a difference our support made this time around.

The libertarian movement could be as big as this and bigger. In all actuality, they have more members than the RP supporters. They are established in every state.
After this election season, if RP doesn't get the NOD, I will be turning my support back to the LP.

As for now, I'm still a RP delegate. I'm still supporting the fight for the win. That is, until RP loses or publically states he won't accept the nod if he wins.

LP has about 100,000 members I understand. C4L has over 600,000, and that was BEFORE this campaign started. I think you are wrong about the LP having more support than Ron Paul.

The problem with the LP from my point of view is that they have their own internal politics which don't really seem better than the GOP politics. I mean, Barr?
 
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Indy Party. We could squat our movement there. The LP is going no where and the Republicans hate us. Yes, it's that crystal clear.

We could unite the people against the establishment and the two party criminal system.
 
Yeah, the LP exists but it was never any where near as successful as we've become here in the GOP. I was a dues paying member of the LP starting when I was 14 yrs old and have spent a decade spinning my wheels. Then when RP came on the national scene last go round I decided to come back to the GOP and have been amazed at how far we've come. Sorry to say, liberty is a lifelong engagement that can't be had at the drop of a hat. Color me a sunshine blower but you can't deny the inroads we've made into taking back the GOP to its roots. Why turn coat and let the old guard have their party back when it is ours for the taking. We'd truly be pissing on everything Dr. Paul has done by not continually throwing our weight back against the establishment here. The party insiders are more feeble than one would think. They're so used to just showing up at conventions and just rubber stamping the agenda that they don't know what to do (other than cheating) when those that know the rules show up and exert their influence. The fact that our state convention is in Detroit is enough to prevent many of the old timers from showing up which bodes well for us. We expect to pull national delegates out of this thing and outrightly control the entire state by the next convention w/i 6 months when the fresh batch of precinct delegates are seated.
Bottom line, we've had our strength in the GOP grow exponentially yet the LP has been regressing for decades. Personally, I owe in to Ron to run these insiders out of the party on a rail.
 
Thats correct it would be easier to transform the libertarian party into whatever it is that we see as idealistic. BUT by bringing prefection to the libertarian party you still don't get around the 2 party system that exists today. If you want to win sooner then 40-50 years out you CHANGE the GOP from within.

And the alternative is......Republicans? Is that the same party that runs on the platform of "Israel first" with never-ending pre-emptive wars and social policies that attempt to set us back to the Stone Age? :rolleyes:

It would probably be just as easy to transform the LP as it would be to transform the GOP.
 
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