Here's an idea for a new bill: American weapons may only be used by American military

economics102

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This the kind of thing Rand might consider as a talking point or even a bill.

We are often too unwilling to fight wars with our own soldiers, so we arm other people who then later use the weapons against us. Let's have a policy, maybe even a law, that we either march in with our own armed soldiers, or the arms stay home. If we're not willing to fight ourselves, maybe we shouldn't be handing out weapons like they're candy to others. Maybe the American people will be more war-weary when American soldiers are fighting in these very dangerous wars like Syria and Iraq instead of us just handing out the guns.
 
This the kind of thing Rand might consider as a talking point or even a bill.

We are often too unwilling to fight wars with our own soldiers, so we arm other people who then later use the weapons against us. Let's have a policy, maybe even a law, that we either march in with our own armed soldiers, or the arms stay home. If we're not willing to fight ourselves, maybe we shouldn't be handing out weapons like they're candy to others. Maybe the American people will be more war-weary when American soldiers are fighting in these very dangerous wars like Syria and Iraq instead of us just handing out the guns.

Except that we actually did go to war in Iraq.

I think it would be far better to ban the American Military from using weapons.
 
I don't see the harm in arming a proven ally. Like the Kurds for instance. This arming of questionable Syrian groups is wrong.

There does need to be a higher standard of proof to receive US arms.
 
American arms aren't owned by America,they are owned by American arms manufacturers.
These companies should be able to sell their products to any willing buyer we aren't in a declared war with for that would be treason.
'America' shouldn't pay for and provide arms to any country,ally or not.

I do think that Congress should be able to decide that exporting certain military technology,atom bombs for instance but I can think of a few more, could be prohibited but if so,it should be prohibited across the board,not just to this months enemies.
If outlawing the export of these military technologies is currently deemed Unconstitutional,I would support a Constitutional amendment changing that.
 
Dude. No.

Sell weapons to active enemies you are at war with at exorbitant rates. They blow their GDP on foreign weapons, you have free money to build an army to defend yourself with.

Dude with the biggest factories wins. Dude with no factories loses.

Giving weapons for free or as aid to your enemy... yeah that is dumb. Arming the Syrian Rebels is aiding the enemy. Aiding the enemy is Treason.
 
Not meaning to respectfully shoot down this idea, but jus' sayin' it gets complex certainly . . .

F-35 is an American made fighter jet (Boeing) that the USA can not afford itself



Australia has ordered nearly 60 more - and a nation like Denmark is a Tier 3 F-35 nation

So then what bud ? Jus' askin . . .

Peace.
 
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... Australia has ordered nearly 60 more...

YEA that's the piece ticket ride of a lifetime, a gud die mite!

+++

Guns need improved kill switches (American DNA required)
and high-capacity-freedom-magazines with magic bullets
all powered by the souls of orphans, etc.
 
At this rate, I have half a mind to become a "moderate" militant to nab some free weaponry and then run off with it.

Sad that being some rebel in a foreign country grants you more right to bear arms than being a sovereign citizen of the homeland.

As for this imaginary bill, let's make it clear that this bill covers our actual soldiers and not our wannabe soldiers patrolling the streets with their free military weapons from Papa Gov. Our soldiers use military gear and that's it. Not foreign militants or homegrown militants with badges.

When it comes to selling weapons, that should be up to the arms manufacturers, with the stipulation that you cannot sell weapons to enemies during a war. Our Government using our tax dollars to develop and purchase weapons and then handing them out to "friendly" rebels in foreign countries for free is weak morally and will only lead to stronger groups who are against us. The United States is the greatest enablers of all of these terror groups that its supposedly against. We probably give more weapons and funding to them directly and indirectly than they get from other sources.

Madness, mang.
 
Not meaning to respectfully shoot down this idea, but jus' sayin' it gets complex certainly . . .

F-35 is an American made fighter jet (Boeing) that the USA can not afford itself

Australia has ordered nearly 60 more - and a nation like Denmark is a Tier 3 F-35 nation

So then what bud ? Jus' askin . . .

Peace.

It's probably better to sell those things to the enemy. They are too expensive and don't work.
 
It's probably better to sell those things to the enemy. They are too expensive and don't work.

I do not think that the F-35 is all hype and a death trap . . . certainly it is a part of this massive MIC Ike waerned us about :





I think the Aussies are having some success with the F-35, and the Danes are maybe notsomuch -
that is what I understand anyway.

fwiw, I actually am looking at travelling to Copenhagen possibly by year's end for other business.
The Danes are important business partners and a worldwide influence, believe it or not. They are and have been an important ally -
Danes lost about 40 soldiers in the overall fight and search for bin Laden -
as reported in the scandanavian press after bin Laden was taken out.

I expect - imho - that we would see a F-35 on a US carrier deck (someyear) - either Aussie or Danish I'd bet, but I dunno much.




.
 
I don't see the harm in arming a proven ally. Like the Kurds for instance. This arming of questionable Syrian groups is wrong.

There does need to be a higher standard of proof to receive US arms.

Sorry but I don't think the American taxpayers should be paying for weapons on foreign nations civil wars.
 
What mad cow said about some weapons being the private property of manufacturers and the necessity of very narrowly tailored restrictions - on stuff like nuclear bombs, for example or to states/groups that have implicitly or explicitly declared their intention to attack America or her allies.

I don't mind subsidizing allies -with weapons, training, etc.- but only as long as there is a clear and evident benefit to America's security in doing so (for example, if it's a reliable ally on a war theatre we're also involved). Prudential judgement on a case by case basis. Not sure the Kurds qualify.
 
I don't see the harm in arming a proven ally.

Today's proven ally is tomorrow's sworn enemy.

We need to remove ourselves from foreign entanglements, and yet there are those situations that, of we do not act, appear to threaten to set stages wherein we become vulnerable to attack. But we live in an age where certain technologies are so highly developed that when coupled with the utter moral bankruptcy encountered across the globe, one cannot be certain of anything.

Who are ISIS/ISIL? Where did they come from, ultimately? It does not seem at all far-fetched to think they are product of the same men who see to it that a given bill is passed and enacted in the US Congress or the EU. I may be wrong about it - it is possible there is a lot more going on "organically", but U for one cannot tell. But I place no limit on the things Theye are capable of and willing to do, the only limits they respect are those that tell them what it is with which they can get away with at worst acceptable negative consequences.

The world is now one gigantic smoke and mirrors act. What is even more fascinating is the prospect that much of what happens is not of Theire direct making, but simply the consequence of Theire having cultivated a general environment so completely warlike that they are capable of hiding in the fog, wherein they are almost perfectly safe to act as they please, the meaner fundamentally unable to separate the signal of what Theye do from the general noise. That, in fact, is probably the greater truth at play in the world today.

We wonder why there is such chaos in the world, but if one thinks in terms of strategy for universal dominion, everything we see makes the most perfectly clear sense. Surround oneself with the noise of endless chaos everywhere and he finds himself in an environment of nearly perfect camouflage. This has the added advantage of greater resource efficiency. Instead of attempting to micro-manage the world, Theye simply set conditions such that the meaners take the ball and run with it, unwitting.

By what mechanism have drugs become such a scourge in the lives of countless millions of people? Because all one has to do is expose enough people to them and the epidemic takes off as a matter of its own nature. Leave doors ajar by which some may pass to satisfy the rising demand and the cycle completes itself. Declare "war" on the circumstance and human proclivity all but ensures the perpetual life and spread of the cults of abuse and addiction. Prohibition serves doubly to provide the pretext for the "war" and the usurpations of power that go hand in hand with it.

By that means alone a significant proportion of a population are neutralized as potential threats to Theire machinations. Comparatively little is expended directly in terms of resources. Theye set the conditions and sit back, letting nature takes its course. So long as they have root control, the risk of anything going so fundamentally wrong as to result in serious threats to Theire positions in the world are all but nonexistent.

Now add open warfare, economic manipulation for effects, class hatreds, paranoia, nationalism, religion, competing political paradigms, etc., and the world becomes warlike in great totality. Remember that the definition of "warlike" is not restricted to armies shooting at each other. Warlike in terms of an environment is as much a matter of psychology as anything else. If you can establish warlike circumstances in a sufficiently broad cross section of daily living, the perceptual environment of the meaner will become warlike. That is, it will become sufficiently noise-riddled that the average man will become incapable of distinguishing the real trouble makers from the rest, and perhaps ultimately uninterested in trying. This is the perfect result for the tyrant.

Like the Kurds for instance. This arming of questionable Syrian groups is wrong.

And the Kurds may be steadfast allies. However, the same appeared to be the case with the so-called "mujahedeen". During the Soviet war in Afghanistan, were they not our great buddies... our "proven ally"? Now look at them.

There is NO SUCH THING as a "proven ally" because these entities are not flawlessly constant. Today I love you, tomorrow I want to kill you. Humans.

There does need to be a higher standard of proof to receive US arms.

If we are to persist in arming others, then I would agree. I would add that there are certain categories of arms I would never allow outside our borders. The absurdly obvious ones are nuclear weapons. Why don't we give those out? The reasons should be obvious. But what about aircraft? Tanks? Fire-and-forget ground to air missiles? Artillery? Chemical weapons? Biologics? Where is the line to be drawn?
 
American arms aren't owned by America,they are owned by American arms manufacturers.
These companies should be able to sell their products to any willing buyer we aren't in a declared war with for that would be treason.

Bull. Shit.

You take a reasonable free market principle and apply it with not so much as the least measure of rational consideration. FAIL.

Consider a loose analog. You own a knife and wish to sell it. You decide to sell it to a man who has just declared his intention to you to kill me with it. He tries and I take care of him. Guess who is next on my list of people to "visit".

This is a catch-22 situation. People are dangerous and become more so by the day. Psychology drives virtually every human action and when the general mental landscape has fallen into madness, then nobody is safe and we are faced with a choice: cleave stubbornly to principle and be consumed in the flames of chaos or try something else. This is a circumstance that has, IMO, been largely foisted upon us artificially by unseen hands. Regardless, the circumstance is here, it is now, it is fact. To permit a corporate entity to provide military arms to "others" is not sound. It is insane.

By your reasoning, Pantex should be allowed to provide hydrogen bombs to any nation with the cash. General Dynamics or Rockwell International, etc. should be free to provide delivery systems for such weapons if there is market for them. If you truly believe that this is sane, then I would have to assess you as being in stern need of hospitalization because you have completely lost it.

Even were we to perfect this land in terms of freedom, we would still not be able to soundly decide to sell such arms to other nations because other nations would still be insane. The rest of the world is barking mad, all appearances to the contrary notwithstanding. That disease has infected us as well and it gets worse by the minute. The sale of arms to others may not have been as big a deal when those arms required a lot of physical labor to employ. Killing with a sword is hard work. Today, a button is pushed and there goes a city of five million souls within seconds.


'America' shouldn't pay for and provide arms to any country,ally or not.

Here we agree.

I do think that Congress should be able to decide that exporting certain military technology,atom bombs for instance but I can think of a few more, could be prohibited but if so,it should be prohibited across the board,not just to this months enemies.
If outlawing the export of these military technologies is currently deemed Unconstitutional,I would support a Constitutional amendment changing that.

Now that is more like it. :)
 
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