Here is what I think happened all year, including the last couple weeks...

SantanJ

Banned
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Jun 7, 2012
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9
Now, I know this will annoy some people, but before you complain, ask yourself if you are complaining because you disagree with what I said, or because you don't WANT it to be true.

First off, I see people actually suggesting that Ron Paul never WANTED to win the nomination. That is pure bullcrap. (Hey...how come crap is allowed on television, but not shit?) Yes, he wanted to win. Now...did he ever think that he was a favorite? Doubtful. He always knew it was going to be an extreme long shot, but one worth attempting. After the first set of primaries, regardless of how it happened, when he didn't win and get the momentum, he likely knew it was an even greater long sht. However, no one candidate was pulling away, so anything could happen.

Then Santorum dropped out. And despite what everyone wants to believe, I would bet everything that Ron Paul knew it was over for his chances right then and there. However, that also brought about a POSITIVE aspect. Before Santorum dropped out, Ron Paul was an extreme long shot to win the nomination, AND was a long shot to make any real gains at the Convention. With Santorum out, and with Gingrich soon to follow, he knew that in a two man race, he might get enough delegates to make a difference. And THAT likely became his priority. That is not giving up. That is playing smart. If you are an athlete, you know that the quickest way to get better is to LOSE. An NBA team will never get better playing a college team. But that college team will improve real fast playing an NBA team over and over again, even though they will lose every time. So Ron Paul chose to keep on playing, and gkeep on getting points (delegates) and learn from the game. And by "learn from" I really mean have his SUPPORTERS learn from becase he knows he is going to pass the torch in a few months.

At first, it was going pretty well. A few solid state conventions and he looked to be well on his way to the 5 states he needed to be eligible. Personally, I don't think he expects bound delegates to vote for anyone but whom they are bound to. All his statements have suggested that he either thinks they are bound, or would prefer that delegates vote that way anyway. But still...with those 5 states, he would gain A LOT.

But then came the big week where California voted. The weekend before was a big state convention weekend as well. I forget the exact numbers but it was something like 450 delegates up for grabs between Saturday and Tuesday, and then another 200 the following weekend. The first weekend was a disaster. For whatever reason...fraud, dirty tricks, whatever...Romney dominated that weekend. He got almost all the delegates. And surely Ron Paul KNEW that he Tuesday primaries would be a bloodbath for Romney. between the winner-take all rules and the fact that most were awarded by slate or direct election, he knew hat Romney would take most of those as well.

If I recall, the first announcement that angered a lot of supporters came that week. Right? The ones from Benton? Well..my take on it is, he saw what happened at the first weekend's state conventions, and realized he was not going to get much more. Again, for whatever reason you want to say, he was not winning anymore. If you want to blame it on fraud, then fine...but realize that if that is true, then it was not going to suddenly stop. He also saw some chaos happening. Chaos that was resulting in supporters getting injured, arrested, or whatever. Most may have been the establishment's fault, but some were excitable supporters getting just a little too excited. And believe it or not, Ron Paul is SERIOUS about not wanting chaos. Because it won't help matters, and therefore has all downside and no upside.

So then Ron Paul made his personal announcement as well. I think it was his way of saying "Look....We tried our best. We gave 'em hell. They beat us. This time. But we got some great practice in and learned from our loss. Let's BUILD on this. Don't be discouraged by the loss. Be encouraged by the gains."

The sad thing is, it has the opposite effect on some of his supporters, only because they were so caught up in what was clearly an impossible pipe dream at that point. So they can't see the forest for the trees. (I am not sure what that saying really means, but I have always wanted to use it, and I THINK I used it correctly here, and you really don't get a chance to use it very often. So I gave it a shot.) They are SO focused on the nomination that they think ANYTHING less is a failure. Which is, of course, ridiculous.

Make no mistake about it. Ron Paul is not expecting to get 950 delegates that are bound to others to vote for him in addition to the 180 or so that he will have on his own. He knows more about the true support count than anyone. (And notice I said support count, since that is different than the delegate count.) His e-mail was very clear..he would have 500 SUPPORTERS as delegates. That is factoring in 300 stealth. So it would mean that he would have to have THREE TIMES as many stealth delegates than he thinks...AND they would ALL have to be willing to accept any penalty for voting for him.

IT is why he honestly doesn't even WANT it to be attempted. What good is it if the BEST case scenario occurred and they all did it, and they were successful at not getting replaced, etc. So Ron Paul gets 500 votes. But Romney still gets well over 1800. Maybe a few dozen will stay with Gingrich or Santorum, but not much. The e-mail was pretty clear. His Texas speech was pretty clear, but many refuse to interpret it any other way but :I am still going to win!" when really it was "FORGET about the nomination and let win what we CAN"

But Ron saw that people were STILL planning on creating chaos. A chaos that he doesn't want. My god...I see posts that said "We will FORCE him to accept the nomination" and these posts were SERIOUS. Like it was no longer his choice. AS if he OWED it to them! Can you imagine that! Sometimes I get the feeling that Ron Paul buries his head in his pillow and just lets out a primordial scream in frustration with some of his supporters. And never more so than in the last couple weeks.

That is likely what led to the Rand endorsement. Which...like the Benton e-mail, Ron Paul surely knew about beforehand, and SUPPORTED 100%. IT was the last ditch effort to say "Listen..we are not going to win! But I am not going to quit because then I have NO shot of getting to speak, and we have NO shot of getting anything accomplished in August."

Realize this...there are a LOT of things that occur at the Convention. It is NOT all about nominating the Republican candidate. Focus on the OTHER things because that is where you can win. Maybe not all the battles, but some. But the more you focus on the one unwinnable battle, the lest likely it is the win the others.

It doesn't mean you vote for Romney. I really don't think that Ron Paul expected any of his supporters to vote for Romney simply because Rand endorsed him. Rand Paul did it for his future. And it was a SMART move, supported...and quite possibly ORCHESTRATED by Ron Paul himself. Four years from now, assuming Rand runs and Ron's health holds up, you will surely see Ron out campaigning for his son as much as his body will allow him to. And many of you who have sworn to trust Paul with your lives are now saying that you will never support Rand no matter what! So in other words, you don't REALLY trust Ron Paul. You only trust him when you AGREE with him. So really, you only trust yourselves.

Anyone who will let the last 2-3 weeks change how they feel about Ron Paul, or Rand Paul for that matter, really SHOULD leave the movement. Because you just don't get it. And if I may be harsh for a second...then you are doing far more harm than good by being a part of it.
 
So really, you only trust yourselves.

Actually I don't even trust myself.

I put my trust in God.

Anyone, including your best friend and love of your life can betray you.
 
That is likely what led to the Rand endorsement. Which...like the Benton e-mail, Ron Paul surely knew about beforehand, and SUPPORTED 100%.

The only way this could be true is if Ron also endorses Romney. I highly doubt that will ever happen, so you are heavily speculating about something with no evidence to back up your assertions.
 
That doesn't even make sense.

You really still don't see how Ron and Rand are working as a team here? Really?

It makes perfect sense. If he supported him 100% as claimed by the OP then he would also endorse Romney himself. I highly doubt Ron is going to support his son doing something 100% when there is no way he would do it himself.
 
Now, I know this will annoy some people, but before you complain, ask yourself if you are complaining because you disagree with what I said, or because you don't WANT it to be true.

First off, I see people actually suggesting that Ron Paul never WANTED to win the nomination. That is pure bullcrap. (Hey...how come crap is allowed on television, but not shit?) Yes, he wanted to win. Now...did he ever think that he was a favorite? Doubtful. He always knew it was going to be an extreme long shot, but one worth attempting. After the first set of primaries, regardless of how it happened, when he didn't win and get the momentum, he likely knew it was an even greater long sht. However, no one candidate was pulling away, so anything could happen.

Then Santorum dropped out. And despite what everyone wants to believe, I would bet everything that Ron Paul knew it was over for his chances right then and there. However, that also brought about a POSITIVE aspect. Before Santorum dropped out, Ron Paul was an extreme long shot to win the nomination, AND was a long shot to make any real gains at the Convention. With Santorum out, and with Gingrich soon to follow, he knew that in a two man race, he might get enough delegates to make a difference. And THAT likely became his priority. That is not giving up. That is playing smart. If you are an athlete, you know that the quickest way to get better is to LOSE. An NBA team will never get better playing a college team. But that college team will improve real fast playing an NBA team over and over again, even though they will lose every time. So Ron Paul chose to keep on playing, and gkeep on getting points (delegates) and learn from the game. And by "learn from" I really mean have his SUPPORTERS learn from becase he knows he is going to pass the torch in a few months.

At first, it was going pretty well. A few solid state conventions and he looked to be well on his way to the 5 states he needed to be eligible. Personally, I don't think he expects bound delegates to vote for anyone but whom they are bound to. All his statements have suggested that he either thinks they are bound, or would prefer that delegates vote that way anyway. But still...with those 5 states, he would gain A LOT.

But then came the big week where California voted. The weekend before was a big state convention weekend as well. I forget the exact numbers but it was something like 450 delegates up for grabs between Saturday and Tuesday, and then another 200 the following weekend. The first weekend was a disaster. For whatever reason...fraud, dirty tricks, whatever...Romney dominated that weekend. He got almost all the delegates. And surely Ron Paul KNEW that he Tuesday primaries would be a bloodbath for Romney. between the winner-take all rules and the fact that most were awarded by slate or direct election, he knew hat Romney would take most of those as well.

If I recall, the first announcement that angered a lot of supporters came that week. Right? The ones from Benton? Well..my take on it is, he saw what happened at the first weekend's state conventions, and realized he was not going to get much more. Again, for whatever reason you want to say, he was not winning anymore. If you want to blame it on fraud, then fine...but realize that if that is true, then it was not going to suddenly stop. He also saw some chaos happening. Chaos that was resulting in supporters getting injured, arrested, or whatever. Most may have been the establishment's fault, but some were excitable supporters getting just a little too excited. And believe it or not, Ron Paul is SERIOUS about not wanting chaos. Because it won't help matters, and therefore has all downside and no upside.

So then Ron Paul made his personal announcement as well. I think it was his way of saying "Look....We tried our best. We gave 'em hell. They beat us. This time. But we got some great practice in and learned from our loss. Let's BUILD on this. Don't be discouraged by the loss. Be encouraged by the gains."

The sad thing is, it has the opposite effect on some of his supporters, only because they were so caught up in what was clearly an impossible pipe dream at that point. So they can't see the forest for the trees. (I am not sure what that saying really means, but I have always wanted to use it, and I THINK I used it correctly here, and you really don't get a chance to use it very often. So I gave it a shot.) They are SO focused on the nomination that they think ANYTHING less is a failure. Which is, of course, ridiculous.

Make no mistake about it. Ron Paul is not expecting to get 950 delegates that are bound to others to vote for him in addition to the 180 or so that he will have on his own. He knows more about the true support count than anyone. (And notice I said support count, since that is different than the delegate count.) His e-mail was very clear..he would have 500 SUPPORTERS as delegates. That is factoring in 300 stealth. So it would mean that he would have to have THREE TIMES as many stealth delegates than he thinks...AND they would ALL have to be willing to accept any penalty for voting for him.

IT is why he honestly doesn't even WANT it to be attempted. What good is it if the BEST case scenario occurred and they all did it, and they were successful at not getting replaced, etc. So Ron Paul gets 500 votes. But Romney still gets well over 1800. Maybe a few dozen will stay with Gingrich or Santorum, but not much. The e-mail was pretty clear. His Texas speech was pretty clear, but many refuse to interpret it any other way but :I am still going to win!" when really it was "FORGET about the nomination and let win what we CAN"

But Ron saw that people were STILL planning on creating chaos. A chaos that he doesn't want. My god...I see posts that said "We will FORCE him to accept the nomination" and these posts were SERIOUS. Like it was no longer his choice. AS if he OWED it to them! Can you imagine that! Sometimes I get the feeling that Ron Paul buries his head in his pillow and just lets out a primordial scream in frustration with some of his supporters. And never more so than in the last couple weeks.

That is likely what led to the Rand endorsement. Which...like the Benton e-mail, Ron Paul surely knew about beforehand, and SUPPORTED 100%. IT was the last ditch effort to say "Listen..we are not going to win! But I am not going to quit because then I have NO shot of getting to speak, and we have NO shot of getting anything accomplished in August."

Realize this...there are a LOT of things that occur at the Convention. It is NOT all about nominating the Republican candidate. Focus on the OTHER things because that is where you can win. Maybe not all the battles, but some. But the more you focus on the one unwinnable battle, the lest likely it is the win the others.

It doesn't mean you vote for Romney. I really don't think that Ron Paul expected any of his supporters to vote for Romney simply because Rand endorsed him. Rand Paul did it for his future. And it was a SMART move, supported...and quite possibly ORCHESTRATED by Ron Paul himself. Four years from now, assuming Rand runs and Ron's health holds up, you will surely see Ron out campaigning for his son as much as his body will allow him to. And many of you who have sworn to trust Paul with your lives are now saying that you will never support Rand no matter what! So in other words, you don't REALLY trust Ron Paul. You only trust him when you AGREE with him. So really, you only trust yourselves.

Anyone who will let the last 2-3 weeks change how they feel about Ron Paul, or Rand Paul for that matter, really SHOULD leave the movement. Because you just don't get it. And if I may be harsh for a second...then you are doing far more harm than good by being a part of it.

Awesome post! Are you the stealth Ron people were talking about in another thread?
 
Awesome post! Our situation is very much like the Germans situation in WWII, the Russians are quickly approaching Berlin as the dedicated Paul supporters plan our (next) moves in the Reichstag, some believing we can still win, some cowering and betraying the movement, and others who love Paul but know we can't win but will go down with him anyways.

I myself hope there are more stealth delegates then presumed and Paul wins the nomination, but I know it's not likely. However, hope is what drives me forward, so don't disrupt my hope :)
 
Now, I know this will annoy some people, but before you complain, ask yourself if you are complaining because you disagree with what I said, or because you don't WANT it to be true.

First off, I see people actually suggesting that Ron Paul never WANTED to win the nomination. That is pure bullcrap. (Hey...how come crap is allowed on television, but not shit?) Yes, he wanted to win. Now...did he ever think that he was a favorite? Doubtful. He always knew it was going to be an extreme long shot, but one worth attempting. After the first set of primaries, regardless of how it happened, when he didn't win and get the momentum, he likely knew it was an even greater long sht. However, no one candidate was pulling away, so anything could happen.

Then Santorum dropped out. And despite what everyone wants to believe, I would bet everything that Ron Paul knew it was over for his chances right then and there. However, that also brought about a POSITIVE aspect. Before Santorum dropped out, Ron Paul was an extreme long shot to win the nomination, AND was a long shot to make any real gains at the Convention. With Santorum out, and with Gingrich soon to follow, he knew that in a two man race, he might get enough delegates to make a difference. And THAT likely became his priority. That is not giving up. That is playing smart. If you are an athlete, you know that the quickest way to get better is to LOSE. An NBA team will never get better playing a college team. But that college team will improve real fast playing an NBA team over and over again, even though they will lose every time. So Ron Paul chose to keep on playing, and gkeep on getting points (delegates) and learn from the game. And by "learn from" I really mean have his SUPPORTERS learn from becase he knows he is going to pass the torch in a few months.

At first, it was going pretty well. A few solid state conventions and he looked to be well on his way to the 5 states he needed to be eligible. Personally, I don't think he expects bound delegates to vote for anyone but whom they are bound to. All his statements have suggested that he either thinks they are bound, or would prefer that delegates vote that way anyway. But still...with those 5 states, he would gain A LOT.

But then came the big week where California voted. The weekend before was a big state convention weekend as well. I forget the exact numbers but it was something like 450 delegates up for grabs between Saturday and Tuesday, and then another 200 the following weekend. The first weekend was a disaster. For whatever reason...fraud, dirty tricks, whatever...Romney dominated that weekend. He got almost all the delegates. And surely Ron Paul KNEW that he Tuesday primaries would be a bloodbath for Romney. between the winner-take all rules and the fact that most were awarded by slate or direct election, he knew hat Romney would take most of those as well.

If I recall, the first announcement that angered a lot of supporters came that week. Right? The ones from Benton? Well..my take on it is, he saw what happened at the first weekend's state conventions, and realized he was not going to get much more. Again, for whatever reason you want to say, he was not winning anymore. If you want to blame it on fraud, then fine...but realize that if that is true, then it was not going to suddenly stop. He also saw some chaos happening. Chaos that was resulting in supporters getting injured, arrested, or whatever. Most may have been the establishment's fault, but some were excitable supporters getting just a little too excited.
And believe it or not, Ron Paul is SERIOUS about not wanting chaos. Because it won't help matters, and therefore has all downside and no upside.

So then Ron Paul made his personal announcement as well. I think it was his way of saying "Look....We tried our best. We gave 'em hell. They beat us. This time. But we got some great practice in and learned from our loss. Let's BUILD on this. Don't be discouraged by the loss. Be encouraged by the gains."

The sad thing is, it has the opposite effect on some of his supporters, only because they were so caught up in what was clearly an impossible pipe dream at that point. So they can't see the forest for the trees. (I am not sure what that saying really means, but I have always wanted to use it, and I THINK I used it correctly here, and you really don't get a chance to use it very often. So I gave it a shot.) They are SO focused on the nomination that they think ANYTHING less is a failure. Which is, of course, ridiculous.

Make no mistake about it. Ron Paul is not expecting to get 950 delegates that are bound to others to vote for him in addition to the 180 or so that he will have on his own. He knows more about the true support count than anyone. (And notice I said support count, since that is different than the delegate count.) His e-mail was very clear..he would have 500 SUPPORTERS as delegates. That is factoring in 300 stealth. So it would mean that he would have to have THREE TIMES as many stealth delegates than he thinks...AND they would ALL have to be willing to accept any penalty for voting for him.

IT is why he honestly doesn't even WANT it to be attempted. What good is it if the BEST case scenario occurred and they all did it, and they were successful at not getting replaced, etc. So Ron Paul gets 500 votes. But Romney still gets well over 1800. Maybe a few dozen will stay with Gingrich or Santorum, but not much. The e-mail was pretty clear. His Texas speech was pretty clear, but many refuse to interpret it any other way but :I am still going to win!" when really it was "FORGET about the nomination and let win what we CAN"

But Ron saw that people were STILL planning on creating chaos. A chaos that he doesn't want. My god...I see posts that said "We will FORCE him to accept the nomination" and these posts were SERIOUS. Like it was no longer his choice. AS if he OWED it to them! Can you imagine that! Sometimes I get the feeling that Ron Paul buries his head in his pillow and just lets out a primordial scream in frustration with some of his supporters. And never more so than in the last couple weeks.

That is likely what led to the Rand endorsement. Which...like the Benton e-mail, Ron Paul surely knew about beforehand, and SUPPORTED 100%. IT was the last ditch effort to say "Listen..we are not going to win! But I am not going to quit because then I have NO shot of getting to speak, and we have NO shot of getting anything accomplished in August."

Realize this...there are a LOT of things that occur at the Convention. It is NOT all about nominating the Republican candidate. Focus on the OTHER things because that is where you can win. Maybe not all the battles, but some. But the more you focus on the one unwinnable battle, the lest likely it is the win the others.

It doesn't mean you vote for Romney. I really don't think that Ron Paul expected any of his supporters to vote for Romney simply because Rand endorsed him. Rand Paul did it for his future. And it was a SMART move, supported...and quite possibly ORCHESTRATED by Ron Paul himself. Four years from now, assuming Rand runs and Ron's health holds up, you will surely see Ron out campaigning for his son as much as his body will allow him to. And many of you who have sworn to trust Paul with your lives are now saying that you will never support Rand no matter what! So in other words, you don't REALLY trust Ron Paul. You only trust him when you AGREE with him. So really, you only trust yourselves.

Anyone who will let the last 2-3 weeks change how they feel about Ron Paul, or Rand Paul for that matter, really SHOULD leave the movement. Because you just don't get it. And if I may be harsh for a second...then you are doing far more harm than good by being a part of it.

Benton's email came out on 5-14

The California primary was 3 weeks after that.

You got your time frames mixed up to a point that the rest of your argument from there doesn't make sense... Everything after it I agree with but the time frames are way to suspicious for it to be wrapped up in a neat package like that...

What I remember before Benton made that announcement was that we were KILLING it in delegates the past weekends and had actually won our 8th state.

Then that announcement was made and everything fell apart...
 
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It makes perfect sense. If he supported him 100% as claimed by the OP then he would also endorse Romney himself. I highly doubt Ron is going to support his son doing something 100% when there is no way he would do it himself.

Yeah, the OP purely made that part up. I'm sure Rand asked, and knew that any time he asked his dad would say he should do what he thinks is right - he'd have said that a year ago. Rand was the one making the judgment. Ron was a given.

I think some of what you said is likely true, that Ron came to think it was a longer shot incrementally and that we should focus on what to we want out of the convention, but he was careful NOT to say he 'couldn't' win because EVEN if he 'couldn't win' he was still in the race for whatever he could win, including an unlikely upset if that came out of the blue. Being 'all in' to win what you can is the spirit our delegates were (and ARE, we hope) working towards as they were/are vilified and injured at conventions. And THAT is why acting as if the race is over is seen as a betrayal, not because of some 'impossible dream' that Ron WILL pull off an upset. That unlikely possibility is and was used as a nice hope to keep alive, to rally enthusiasm, not an expectation, given that it is not technically impossible Romney could simply implode. And mocking people as having an 'impossible fantasy' when THEY are 'going all in' in the race to support Ron is really insulting, imho.

Further, people see Ron's campaign they have and are working all in for as being thrown under the bus for a transition, and since people are going all in for whatever most they can make of Ron's last campaign, and are having the transition thrust on them, that is seen as a betrayal, as well.
 
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I just don't like the thought, from some of you, that we can't win.

We have already won, and will continue to win. Every mind that is reached and every heart that is touched is a win!

So if Ron Paul became President, you think that would be the end game.. battle won? I don't think so. I think Ron would have had a very hard time implicating his ideas with our congress.

The Pope once said of his salvation... I am saved, I am being saved, and I will be saved. That phrasing can be used by the liberty movement... We won.. we are winning... We will win!

There is no loss, every step we take furthers the movement and is a win! Ron Paul always wins!
 
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Benton's email came out on 5-14

The California primary was 3 weeks after that.

You got your time frames mixed up to a point that the rest of your argument from there doesn't make sense... Everything after it I agree with but the time frames are way to suspicious for it to be wrapped up in a neat package like that...

What I remember before Benton made that announcement was that we were KILLING it in delegates the past weekends and had actually won our 8th state.

Then that announcement was made and everything fell apart...

This is what I love about Ron Paul supporters, their critical thinking is off the fcking chart, always question everything and this is why these NWO scum bags are having a hard time because RP supporters have the best BS detectors known to man.

..and yes the OP does make some good points, but I agree if the delgates can we take RP kicking and screaming into the White house lol.
 
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