Help me win an argument with a friend - says the debate proves RP is a "nutjob"

[Agent CSL]

The president has power in foreign policy. He can and will stop the war, flat out.

"And as for paul, hes insane because he cant fix anything."
Anyone who thinks this usually can't be swayed because they think the president's opinion doesn't matter, thus, their own opinion doesn't matter. People are stuck in this kind of mindset. The obedience, no one can change anything, mindset. I think you should fix him on this before trying to talk up Ron Paul. Your friend needs to know that all throughout history it was the voice of the strong-minded yet small groups that became louder and louder, and got things to change. If these groups were indifferent to oppression like they are today, then we'd still be paying Queen Elizabeth taxes and going for months without a good crop of food because of famine.

Your friend's apathy needs to be cured, first.

 

[Liberty_is_NORML]

From: Andrew
Date: Jan 10, 2008 6:31 PM
ron paul is a nutjob.

enough said.

From: Karissa
Date: Jan 10, 2008 7:50 PM


its too bad you think that way! Hes the only one that will fight for you... without some more thinkers like him in politics I'm sad that our dollar will plunge and our standing around the world will weaken even more.

Ron Paul is the only person running that will stop spending all of our money overseas. We have troops in 130 countries, he wants to bring all of them home. We spend half of our budget on "defense and military spending" and it is continuing to rise. Do you really think we can afford this empire anymore?

Andrew says:
Date: Jan 10, 2008 8:17PM

No, but its doomed anyway, and to be real here, its not half the budget, its over 70% to defense . And as for paul, hes insane because he cant fix anything. He is a republican which is bad enough, dont give me the whole "im just a republican so I can get the votes" lecture its a lie and arnold proved that. But more specifically, the president doesnt do shit, congress does! President Ron Paul wants to bring everybody home, guess what?!?!?! congress voted against it, aww pool Ron... I guess he would just be a lame duck without a congress that supported him


what do I say now?

Tell him that if Ron Paul gets elected it is a virtual referendum to Congress that Americans support his agenda and they damn well better also. Politicians know when the people are passionate about something and they would do well to listen.

 

[Cinnaboo]

Your friend is implying that Ron Paul wouldn't have any power with the congress, so there's no point in voting for him? Does that mean we should only vote for candidates who mesh with the House and Senate?

What roles does your friend expect the president to fulfill? Would Ron Paul be an ineffective diplomat? Could he not rally the people behind fiscal conservatism and in turn put pressure on their representatives? What candidate does your friend think could usher a more positive change in world opinion?

 

[1913_to_2008]

I would ask what in particular they're talking about and overcome the objections on by one..

Or just disown this stupid brainwashed bastard.

 

[all J's in IL for RP]

Congress gave the president the authority, so it's the president's call.

If Paul were ever elected, he would have huge mandate for change, and congress, ever mindful of which way the wind blows, would have an enormous amount of respect for that. A president, even with a congress in the hands of an opposition party, can practically set the legislative agenda during his first 100 days. Then comes the veto pen.

 

[Akus]

From: Andrew
Date: Jan 10, 2008 6:31 PM
ron paul is a nutjob.

enough said.

From: Karissa
Date: Jan 10, 2008 7:50 PM


its too bad you think that way! Hes the only one that will fight for you... without some more thinkers like him in politics I'm sad that our dollar will plunge and our standing around the world will weaken even more.

Ron Paul is the only person running that will stop spending all of our money overseas. We have troops in 130 countries, he wants to bring all of them home. We spend half of our budget on "defense and military spending" and it is continuing to rise. Do you really think we can afford this empire anymore?

Andrew says:
Date: Jan 10, 2008 8:17PM

No, but its doomed anyway, and to be real here, its not half the budget, its over 70% to defense . And as for paul, hes insane because he cant fix anything. He is a republican which is bad enough, dont give me the whole "im just a republican so I can get the votes" lecture its a lie and arnold proved that. But more specifically, the president doesnt do shit, congress does! President Ron Paul wants to bring everybody home, guess what?!?!?! congress voted against it, aww pool Ron... I guess he would just be a lame duck without a congress that supported him


what do I say now?

say that the troops brining is directly under President's order, so is IRS, so is a bunch of other departments. look for Presidnet's cabinet in wiki

and don't give up.

 

[griblets]

President Ron Paul wants to bring everybody home, guess what?!?!?! congress voted against it, aww pool Ron... I guess he would just be a lame duck without a congress that supported him


what do I say now?

Here's what you say...

The Constitution provides that the Congress is the only body that can declare war. It does not give them the authority to reassign that responsibility. However, that's exactly what Congress did when authorizing the President to make the unilateral decision of how and when to use the military in Iraq. Therefore, the war is unconstitutional and illegal. On the flip side, if/when Ron Paul becomes President, he would still have that same illegal authority granted by the Congress, and therefore would have the ability to remove the troops however and whenever he wants.

Your friend likely isn't going to get it. Don't waste too much time on him.

 

[lvp1138]

He is too closed minded and set on ridiculing you. He probably knows that you are correct but he won't admit he is wrong. That is a serious mental issue and he will never accept your word.

 

[VoluntaryMan]

your friend is a moron. get a new friend.

 

[Goldwater Conservative]

No, but its doomed anyway, and to be real here, its not half the budget, its over 70% to defense .

25%.

http://www.answers.com/topic/united-states-federal-budget-2007

And as for paul, hes insane because he cant fix anything.

So insanity is determined by one's ability to get things done? I thought it was determined by one's mental state.

And he can bring all our troops home, rescind all executive orders, ensure the maximum protection of our civil liberties, secure the borders, and veto any legislation he thinks is unconstitutional or would further erode the country's economic well-being. How's that for fixing something?

He is a republican which is bad enough,

So you only look at party labels, not ideas?

dont give me the whole "im just a republican so I can get the votes" lecture its a lie and arnold proved that.

He's a Republican because he stands for traditional conservatism, not the "neoconservatism" we see today that is nothing more than a militant variety of leftism. Read up on Irving Kristol if you don't believe me.

But more specifically, the president doesnt do shit, congress does!

See above. The president can do a lot unilaterally. Hell, according to the Constitution, Congress is supposed to declare wars, but nowadays they just defer to the president's judgment.

President Ron Paul wants to bring everybody home, guess what?!?!?! congress voted against it, aww pool Ron... I guess he would just be a lame duck without a congress that supported him

See above. And part of being a traditional conservative or libertarian is a belief in limited government, so Paul would be content being a "lame duck" after doing what I mentioned previously. It's time for government power, especially at the federal level and in the executive branch, to be scaled back.

 

[ggibson1]

Ron Paul can set an example of how to act as a leader...

From: Andrew

what do I say now?

Probably the most important thing Ron Paul could do is the same as the most important thing George Washington did besides win the Revolution... Washington REFUSED to accept being crowned Americas King. He said he did not defeat one King George just to become another one... That SET AN EXAMPLE for everyone including Congress. Ron Paul also can SET AN EXAMPLE by his refusal to be corrupted by lobbyists and can via that example get people to clean up their act.

 

[Dorfsmith]

Find a new friend. Seriously.

X2

 

[Rintrah54]

Find a new friend. Seriously.

QFT

 

[smithnwesson]

I have heard these arguments from my friends. They basically all come back to a borader attitude that says "well, I can't change anything, so why bother."

Take this opportunity to remind them that if George Washington, Patrick Henry, and others had that feeling, America would still be a collection of British colonies.

As others have mentioned, the President does have authority to order troops home.

Ask your friend if he likes the direction the country is going, spcifically if he likes:

- The lowered value of the dollar
- The increase in government spending
- The increasing tax burden on the middle and upper class
- The loss of some civil liberties due to acts like the Patriot Act
- The erosion of our national soveriegnity on our borders
- The loss of men and women fighting for our country in a war that doesn't have a specific end strategy.
- The loss of $10 billion dollars a year to Pakistan

If those things are things he holds dear as an American, then there is no hope for him, because he doesn't know what this country was intended to be.

If he doesn't like those things, remind him that a man like Ron Paul in the White House would start to turn those things around, because he would be pushing congress to act on bills he introduces, etc. Also, he would be in charge of appointing people to his cabinent, which would be easier for him, as he would close down a few branches of the cabinent on the first day.

Again, there's also the much easier suggestion of hanging with more intelligent people..

 

[VoluntaryMan]

President Ron Paul wants to bring everybody home, guess what?!?!?! congress voted against it...

what do I say now?

As I said, your friend is a moron. However, the President is Commander-in-Chief of the military, which means that, even if Congress had declared war, which it didn't, how the war is executed, and when and where the troops are deployed or recalled is the President's call. In the absence of a declared war, bringing the troops home is the most natural thing to do. Ask your friend what he's smoking.

 

[Michigan11]

Ignorance is bliss, and your friend is skipping around like a laughing lunatic on prozac!

 

[spiteface]

You're debating with someone whose _best_ argument was basically: "Ron Paul is a poo-poo head". Good luck with that.

 

[rebelforacause]

when he is on the street scrounging for food

4 years into the great depression I bet he still won't admit he was wrong because he has an unearned ego and is far too ignorant and isn't much of a man

 

[Cimbri]

Tell him to go fight in the war if he is such a blind follower

 

[kyleAF]

to the OP:

It's true, the Commander in Chief (read: POTUS), has control of the armed forces. He can withdraw them at his discretion.

The Generals and Congressional members would be stepping into an abyss if they tried to deny it.

I think it should be said here that those of us who support Dr. Paul should be familiar with what he supports. Everyone should read through the Constitution of the United States to either learn about it, or refresh their memories.

http://www.usconstitution.net/

Have fun, and keep up the good fight!