Help Mail 40,000+ Rand Paul Super Brochures and Stickers

[Eric21ND]

I have an idea, let's just take our money, put it in a big pile, and set it on fire.

Why are we sending thousands to enrich the SuperBrochure entrepreneurs that are profiting off the movement? Do you realize how huge the overhead on the SuperBrochures is? Why not instead send our money to the cash starved campaign directly?

The free market solution is always best. Spend your money you see fit and brochure supporters will do the same. For a libertarian forum it's awful odd seeing the profit motive being attacked, that's something I'd expect from Bernie Sanders supporters.

 

[nayjevin]

The free market solution is always best. Spend your money you see fit and brochure supporters will do the same. For a libertarian forum it's awful odd seeing the profit motive being attacked, that's something I'd expect from Bernie Sanders supporters.

You clearly do not understand what you've been reading (or not reading) in this thread.

What you're saying is like saying Consumer Reports has no place in a free market because people should be able to spend their money how they see fit.

And nowhere has profit motive been attacked for profit's sake - it is excessive profiteering without transparency nor evidence of efficacy.

Your dutiful cheerleading for an obvious scam has been noted.

 

[devil21]

And nowhere has profit motive been attacked for profit's sake - it is excessive profiteering without transparency nor evidence of efficacy.

This seems to be part and parcel to politics in general though and particularly when a movement becomes mainstream. One only needs to look at some of the mechanisms that have sprung up around Ron and Rand's campaigns to see that this is true, whether it's this brochure thing or lobbying groups that seem to always desperately need more money or official campaign associated groups that make off with large chunks of donations, etc.

Too many people trying to make a buck off others, which always (imo) contributes heavily toward losing focus of the original goals the movement was originally founded upon. There's nothing wrong with making a profit for your labor but if I may quote scripture, "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other."

 

[nayjevin]

This seems to be part and parcel to politics in general though and particularly when a movement becomes mainstream. One only needs to look at some of the mechanisms that have sprung up around Ron and Rand's campaigns to see that this is true, whether it's this brochure thing or lobbying groups that seem to always desperately need more money or official campaign associated groups that make off with large chunks of donations, etc.

Too many people trying to make a buck off others, which always (imo) contributes heavily toward losing focus of the original goals the movement was originally founded upon. There's nothing wrong with making a profit for your labor but if I may quote scripture, "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other."

Yup.

Two solutions:

- If voters were not influenced by soundbytes, but were independent critical thinkers with a principled foundation
- If there were not a distorted market as a result of federal reserve policy and massive wealth squandered and destroyed through explosions in wars, there would not be the scarcity of resources that puts pressure on those who need money and reduces the numbers of volunteers

 

[po14015]

All I am seeing is a few people trying to throw as much mud as possible to see what sticks. First, it is not effective. Second, they charge to much. Third, they do not do it. What is fourth???

Again, why you should support Forever Free PAC with the Rand Paul Super Brochure: Front Page of the New York Times, 3 minutes talking about how the Super Brochure moved Ron Paul up in the polls in Iowa on MSNBC, front page and inside of dozens of other major newspapers across the country, Tens of thousands of people putting their support behind the Super Brochure with money

Success is always attacked especially by those who want failure. The biggest problem Rand Paul faces is that 1 out of 3 SUPER VOTERS do not even know who he is. Even more people do not know where he stands on issues. The average Super Voters watches a few minutes of news to get their sound byte from the "expert" that they are on the same team with. It is why they always have a Democrat "expert" and a Republican "expert". The Super Voter can then use that sound byte around the water cooler and look "informed". The Super Brochure was so successful because we contacted Super Voters that didn't even know Ron Paul was in the race. This will happen to Rand as well. We have to get active and start now. Identifying, educating, and motivating people to vote for Rand will take everyday between now and then. The idea of "waiting" or "someone else will do it" will only result in disappointment.

I suggest people who do not have a business to start one. Create a skill or learn one. Become as independent as possible. You do not have to quit your job. Do it part time at first. If what Ron Paul has been warning for years happens, you have something to fall back on. Understand that 90% of all businesses fail. So you may have to try a few times. The rewards will be priceless.

The reason these businesses fail are seen in this thread. They do not realize how much extra cost there is in running a business. A quick list of some items I am not seeing:

Permits
Accountant Fees
Lawyer Fees
Credit Card Processor Fees
Credit Card Fees
Returns
Damaged Items
Data Processing Fees
Data fees
Shipping fulfillment
Packaging
Marketing fees
Test Marketing fees
Polling fees
etc, etc, etc....

An example is the people selling shirts. Most will cost around $2 to buy in bulk. It is hard to find anyone selling shirts under $10 (except on discount or clearance). WHY? The break even on shirts is around $7 after you pay for the credit card fees, break down, packaging, and other overhead to mail out an order.

I look forward to continue working to make sure Rand Paul wins in 2016. The media will get worse and will ignore/attack Rand. Together we will continue to spread the message of Liberty.

In Liberty,

Curt
941-896-7770

 

[nayjevin]

Failed to answer any relevant questions that are concerning people for at least the third time. Spends lots of time on a sales pitch, and no time addressing legitimate concerns.

Conclusion: Still a scam.

 

[William Tell]

All I am seeing is a few people trying to throw as much mud as possible to see what sticks. First, it is not effective. Second, they charge to much. Third, they do not do it. What is fourth???

I just neg repped for not addressing the issues raised. Is it really so hard to answer people's concerns? Just call anyone who questions you mud throwers?

Come on, you are making yourself look bad.

 

[nayjevin]

All I am seeing is a few people trying to throw as much mud as possible to see what sticks.

Mud insinuates there is no factual basis to the criticism. When presented with claims he does not debunk them, when presented with questions he does not answer them.

First, it is not effective. Second, they charge to much. Third, they do not do it. What is fourth???

Right, it has not been shown to be effective. And right, the cost is greatly inflated.

Again, why you should support Forever Free PAC with the Rand Paul Super Brochure: Front Page of the New York Times,

Not relevant. In fact, it could be bad that the front page of the New York Times promoted poorly planned literature that it has been argued had a negative effect on the Ron Paul campaign.

I am beginning to think a great deal of the hatred toward liberty campaigns in general was seeded by super brochure profiteers.

3 minutes talking about how the Super Brochure moved Ron Paul up in the polls in Iowa on MSNBC,

MSNBC claims are not gospel. Correlation does not equal causation. All murderers eat peanut butter sandwiches, but peanut butter sandwiches do not cause murders.

front page and inside of dozens of other major newspapers across the country,

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the result of an individual effort by someone outside the profiteering ring.

Tens of thousands of people putting their support behind the Super Brochure with money

Tens of thousands of people put their support behind the Nazi party.

Success is always attacked especially by those who want failure.

Manipulation. Critics of this project argue that it was not a success at all. If it could be proven or argued reasonably that it was a net positive, which Curt has been unable to do, it still must be shown to have been worth the money. Reasonable arguments that it was a giant waste of money have been ignored.

The biggest problem Rand Paul faces is that 1 out of 3 SUPER VOTERS do not even know who he is.

I'm guessing this is false, but he sure doesn't prove it. Regardless, Curt asks us to pay for him to define Rand's message to supervoters while advertising his business at the same time. Don't forget - he calls this a business. And he feels it has been a success for him. This is the guy who thought Zeitgeist was a good thing to include on the Ron Paul superbrochure. Zeitgeist.

Even more people do not know where he stands on issues. The average Super Voters watches a few minutes of news to get their sound byte from the "expert" that they are on the same team with. It is why they always have a Democrat "expert" and a Republican "expert". The Super Voter can then use that sound byte around the water cooler and look "informed". The Super Brochure was so successful because we contacted Super Voters that didn't even know Ron Paul was in the race.

Assuming this is true, which I do not, it is still an apples to orange comparison. Media will not be able to imply that Rand is out of the race. The name recognition problem is not even close to what it was with Ron - even Rand's name is easier to remember than Ron's, and he will be running ads and making phone calls and sending volunteers to early states to solve any remaining problem there is with a tailored political message resulting from real data. Whereas Curt guesses - and guesses Zeitgeist.

This will happen to Rand as well. We have to get active and start now. Identifying, educating, and motivating people to vote for Rand will take everyday between now and then. The idea of "waiting" or "someone else will do it" will only result in disappointment.

One can easily do that for free (or for the cost of time) by volunteering for the Rand campaign. Giving Zeitgeist more 'success' in his 'business' is not the way to do it.

I suggest people who do not have a business to start one. Create a skill or learn one. Become as independent as possible. You do not have to quit your job. Do it part time at first. If what Ron Paul has been warning for years happens, you have something to fall back on. Understand that 90% of all businesses fail. So you may have to try a few times. The rewards will be priceless.

Tell us more about your rewards from starting a business during your sales pitch to send you money so you can further advertise your own at the expense of Rand Paul.

The reason these businesses fail are seen in this thread. They do not realize how much extra cost there is in running a business.

This guy lol... he takes on this small business administration air as though he's the guy we should go to and learn about this stuff. #1, provide an honest product or service. He fails that.

A quick list of some items I am not seeing:

Permits
Accountant Fees
Lawyer Fees
Credit Card Processor Fees
Credit Card Fees
Returns
Damaged Items
Data Processing Fees
Data fees
Shipping fulfillment
Packaging
Marketing fees
Test Marketing fees
Polling fees
etc, etc, etc....

And I notice he avoids even claiming that he actually incurs any of those expenses, much less proving it in a transparent way. I wouldn't be surprised to find that exact list on the wiki for 'starting a small business' , copypasted here to avoid answering any real questions.

What costs are actually incurred? This has been asked many times, and still he refuses to answer.

I look forward to continue working to make sure Rand Paul wins in 2016. The media will get worse and will ignore/attack Rand. Together we will continue to spread the message of Liberty.

Manipulation. We're the underdogs in this together! Except if I am to believe some very compelling arguments, it appears Curt is hundreds of thousands of dollars richer, while the rest of us actually sacrifice for this cause.

 

[nayjevin]

If Curt wanted to help Rand Paul, he'd do the exact same thing at the Jeb Bush Forums.

 

[Barrex]

I am willing to

All I am seeing is a few people trying to throw as much mud as possible to see what sticks. First, it is not effective. Second, they charge to much. They do not realize how much extra cost there is in running a business....
A quick list of some items I am not seeing:

Permits
Accountant Fees
Lawyer Fees
Credit Card Processor Fees
Credit Card Fees
Returns
Damaged Items
Data Processing Fees
Data fees
Shipping fulfillment
Packaging
Marketing fees
Test Marketing fees
Polling fees
etc, etc, etc....

Again vague non-answer.
Permits? How much for permit and what permit? You are in business of printing stuff. You dont need extra permit for every new page printed. WTF are you talking about?
Accountant Fees? What accountant fees that are connected to printing this brochure?
Lawyer Fees - You dont have a lawyer per page printed.
Credit Card Processor Fees- OK.
Credit Card Fees - OK
Marketing fees - What marketing fees?
Test Marketing fees - What test marketing did you do?
Polling fees -What polling?
etc, etc, etc....
Design: you are almost copy/pasting it:
http://www.superbrochure.com/adrian-wyllie/

http://www.superbrochure.com/buy-brochures/

Our first goal is to mail a Rand Paul Super Brochure and a Rand Paul bumper sticker to 40,000+ Liberty activists. It will only cost $1.29 per address. We need $50,000 to reach our goal. This is the best investment we can make to help jump start Rand Paul's presidential campaign.

From second link:
16,000 Right To Bear Arms Brochures: $1,389.99

$1,389.99/16,000= $0,086874375

Cost of printing one brochure is LESS than: $0,086874375

Cost of shipping one brochure in bulk mailing MOST EXPENSIVE OPTION: Nonbarcoded, no additional discounts: $0.61
Cheapest option:$0.19




Itemized Individual Contributions - FOREVER FREE PAC [TABLE="width: 100%"]
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Prev1Next
Total Result(s):5

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[TD="class: sortable, width: 9%"]Description[/TD]
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[TD="class: sortable, width: 5%"]State[/TD]
[TD="class: sortable, width: 3%"]Zip[/TD]
[TD="class: sortable, width: 7%"] Receipt Date [/TD]
[TD="class: sortable, width: 7%"]Amount[/TD]
[TD="class: sortable, width: 7%"]Memo Code[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rowOdd"]
[TD="width: 15%"]CANNONE, JESSE[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]SELF[/TD]
[TD="width: 9%"]PUBLISHER[/TD]
[TD="width: 9%"]DONATION[/TD]
[TD="width: 6%"]DRIFTWOOD[/TD]
[TD="width: 5%"]TX[/TD]
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[TD="width: 7%"] 05/20/2015 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] $500 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
[/TD]
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[TD="width: 15%"]SUPER BROCHURE[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 9%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 9%"]IN-KIND -[/TD]
[TD="width: 6%"]BRADENTON[/TD]
[TD="width: 5%"]FL[/TD]
[TD="width: 3%"]34280[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] 03/01/2015 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] $6,820 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rowOdd"]
[TD="width: 15%"]SUPER BROCHURE[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 9%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 9%"]IN-KIND -[/TD]
[TD="width: 6%"]BRADENTON[/TD]
[TD="width: 5%"]FL[/TD]
[TD="width: 3%"]34280[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] 03/03/2015 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] $8,360 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rowEven"]
[TD="width: 15%"]SUPER BROCHURE[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 9%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 9%"]IN-KIND -[/TD]
[TD="width: 6%"]BRADENTON[/TD]
[TD="width: 5%"]FL[/TD]
[TD="width: 3%"]34280[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] 03/05/2015 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] $7,240 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rowOdd"]
[TD="width: 15%"]SUPER BROCHURE[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 9%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 9%"]IN-KIND -[/TD]
[TD="width: 6%"]BRADENTON[/TD]
[TD="width: 5%"]FL[/TD]
[TD="width: 3%"]34280[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] 03/06/2015 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] $5,820 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
[/TD]
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Other Federal Operating Expenditures - FOREVER FREE PAC [TABLE="width: 100%"]
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[/TR]
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[TD="width: 10%"]IN-KIND -[/TD]
[TD="width: 6%"]BRADENTON[/TD]
[TD="width: 5%"]FL[/TD]
[TD="width: 3%"]34280[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] 03/01/2015 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] $6,820 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: rowEven"]
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[TD="width: 10%"]IN-KIND -[/TD]
[TD="width: 6%"]BRADENTON[/TD]
[TD="width: 5%"]FL[/TD]
[TD="width: 3%"]34280[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] 03/03/2015 [/TD]
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[TD="width: 7%"]
[/TD]
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[TD="width: 5%"]FL[/TD]
[TD="width: 3%"]34280[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] 03/05/2015 [/TD]
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[TD="width: 7%"]
[/TD]
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[TD="width: 10%"]IN-KIND -[/TD]
[TD="width: 6%"]BRADENTON[/TD]
[TD="width: 5%"]FL[/TD]
[TD="width: 3%"]34280[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] 03/06/2015 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] $5,820 [/TD]
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JUST ANSWER THIS

Hey Curt, how about fill in these blanks:

Flyer printing cost:
Bumper sticker printing cost:
Perceived value of having your website on 40,000 pieces of mail:
Envelope stuffing cost:
Postage cost:
Other costs (explain):
Expected profit:

It is obvious that you are profiting from this. Only question is how much. There is ZERO transparency.

 

[po14015]

Same three people saying the same things. You are a broken record. Posting false information on costs is simply wrong. Your basic idea of what should happen VS what does happen is amazing. Just so you understand, Super PACs can never be non-profits. And all mailings have to go out at commercial rates. Second, the Super Brochure is much bigger than a letter and has different rates than anything posted.

You three act as if you have a lot of experience in this area. Please share your background. You make it sound easy to get on the front page of the New York Times or MSNBC. Share what you are handing out right now???? What are you doing to make sure Rand Paul wins???

In Liberty,

Curt
941-896-7770

 

[po14015]

JUST ANSWER THIS

It is obvious that you are profiting from this. Only question is how much. There is ZERO transparency.

Do you know how to read this? You just posted that Super Brochure donated over $20,000+ to Forever Free PAC. Who's money do you think that was?

The web site cost $4,000. Maybe some will argue with that decision. After much research, Forever Free is an incredible name and will be something people will continue to come back to even after 2016. I stand by that decision.

So again, tell me how I am making money?

In Liberty,

Curt
941-896-7770

 

[nayjevin]

The burden of proof is on me?

I don't think so.

 

[nayjevin]

Same three people saying the same things. You are a broken record.

ad hominem

Posting false information on costs is simply wrong.

baseless claim

Your basic idea of what should happen VS what does happen is amazing.

no explanation

Just so you understand, Super PACs can never be non-profits.

then why are you a superpac?

And all mailings have to go out at commercial rates.

seems like you made an expensive decision then. but you don't bear the costs, donors do.

Second, the Super Brochure is much bigger than a letter and has different rates than anything posted.

sounds like you made an expensive decision

You three act as if you have a lot of experience in this area. Please share your background. You make it sound easy to get on the front page of the New York Times or MSNBC. Share what you are handing out right now???? What are you doing to make sure Rand Paul wins???

teaching lurkers to avoid scams and think critically at the moment

you answered zero relevant questions

 

[staerker]

The free market solution is always best. Spend your money you see fit and brochure supporters will do the same. For a libertarian forum it's awful odd seeing the profit motive being attacked, that's something I'd expect from Bernie Sanders supporters.

There is nothing wrong with making a profit. I think it is perfectly moral to for them to make money off of the other items that they sell to individuals.

But the SBs are something different. They are asking for donations to fund campaign flyers to help Rand. While not providing the costs involved. There should be minimal personal benefit, and maximal campaign benefit.

 

[Lightweis]

How about they do super brochures for the rest of candidates? Im sure Jeb Bush would like a super brochure LOL

 

[nayjevin]

There is nothing wrong with making a profit. I think it is perfectly moral to for them to make money off of the other items that they sell to individuals.

But the SBs are something different. They are asking for donations to fund campaign flyers to help Rand. While not providing the costs involved. There should be minimal personal benefit, and maximal campaign benefit.

And including a personal website address on it.

There's no reason not to come clean with the numbers, unless they are bad for business.

 

[Barrex]

Same three people saying the same things. You are a broken record. Posting false information on costs is simply wrong. Your basic idea of what should happen VS what does happen is amazing.

Prove me wrong buddy!!! We sound like a broken record because you are avoiding to answer any question so we are repeating them with different points. Wanna bet a Bitcoin on who is right? Answer the question.

Just so you understand, Super PACs can never be non-profits. And all mailings have to go out at commercial rates. Second, the Super Brochure is much bigger than a letter and has different rates than anything posted.

Dude:Flat- not a letter. Still smaller price than what I posted. If I am wrong post how much are you paying! Bet another Bitcoin?

You three act as if you have a lot of experience in this area. Please share your background.

I manage projects for a living (financial constructions, cost-benefit analysis,cost management,), worked in accounting firm, yada yada yada. But lets assume that I am illiterate idiot and I rape little children, I am pure evil... All you need to do is post your expenses.

Share what you are handing out right now????

Interesting choice of words: "handing out"= to give something freely. Friend you are full of these mis-characterizations.

Do you know how to read this? You just posted that Super Brochure donated over $20,000+ to Forever Free PAC. Who's money do you think that was?

You are misleading again. By some strange coincidance I can read financial statements and simple... you know...ehh... how you call it... stuff...Didnt go in detalis because it is irrelevant. I posted it just so that people have more transparency because you offer non... but everything that Super Brochure "donated" was given back to them on a same day! Exactly same amounts on same days:
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[TR="class: cms_table_header"]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortascending, width: 15%"]Contributor Name[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 8%"]Employer[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 9%"]Occupation[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 9%"]Description[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 6%"]City[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 5%"]State[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 3%"]Zip[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 7%"] Receipt Date [/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 7%"]Amount[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 7%"]Memo Code[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: cms_table_reportTable, width: 100%"]
[TR="class: cms_table_rowEven"]
[TD="width: 15%"]SUPER BROCHURE[/TD]
[TD="width: 8%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 9%"]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 9%"]IN-KIND -[/TD]
[TD="width: 6%"]BRADENTON[/TD]
[TD="width: 5%"]FL[/TD]
[TD="width: 3%"]34280[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] 03/01/2015 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] $6,820 [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

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[TR="class: cms_table_header"]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortascending, width: 15%"]Payee Name[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 10%"]Purpose[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 6%"]City[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 5%"]State[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 3%"]Zip[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 7%"] Payment Date [/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 7%"]Amount[/TD]
[TD="class: cms_table_sortable, width: 7%"]Memo Code[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: cms_table_rowOdd"]
[TD="width: 15%"]SUPER BROCHURE[/TD]
[TD="width: 10%"]IN-KIND -[/TD]
[TD="width: 6%"]BRADENTON[/TD]
[TD="width: 5%"]FL[/TD]
[TD="width: 3%"]34280[/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] 03/01/2015 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"] $6,820 [/TD]
[TD="width: 7%"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

You "play" (lets call it that) with money transfers...well... interesting... from accounting perspective... yeah... and that explains why you might need a lawyer.

So again, tell me how I am making money?

You are making money by:
1. printing brochures at low cost;
2. using bulk mail to send them;
3. charging $1.29 per address;
4. having huge profit margin that ends up in your pocket.

Wanna bet a Bitcoin on it?

It would be so easy to prove me wrong... if I were wrong! All you need to do is answer this and provide minimal evidence:

Hey Curt, how about fill in these blanks:

Flyer printing cost:
Bumper sticker printing cost:
Perceived value of having your website on 40,000 pieces of mail:
Envelope stuffing cost:
Postage cost:
Other costs (explain):
Expected profit:

 

[nayjevin]

The web site cost $4,000. Maybe some will argue with that decision. After much research, Forever Free is an incredible name and will be something people will continue to come back to even after 2016. I stand by that decision.

freedom-forever.org is available for $11

https://www.moniker.com/domains/searchresult?query=freedom-forever