Health Rationing In England: Obese And Smokers Banned From Routine Surgery

[Working Poor]

This happens in the USA all the time. My sister is a good example. Poor girl has boobs that hang down to the top of her legs she needs to have them reduced but they won't do it because she is obese. Her breast have made her disabled she can't even find a bra that fits but she eats plenty of food that is regulated and called safe.

I don't think modern food taste good at all I don't see how anyone could become addicted to it. But I can look at my sister and see that it happens.

 

[angelatc]

The sentence I highlighted is nonsensical. Rationing my own food because I am on a diet is not the same thing as another entity (e.g., government) rationing my access.

And this is why Zippy irritates me. There's not a person in this thread who didn't previously sort through all this in the past decade. But instead of discussing the actual topic, he's got us back in Econ 101.

Having said that I hate to do this but in this instance I have to side with Zippy. Health care is a commodity and supply is limited, even though, like the aforementioned Bugatti, it is somewhat artificially limited. The Bugatti is limited by management's decision to produce a small number of cars, health care by licensing and educational restrictions. In a capitalist system

"The distribution of goods and services depends on the distribution of money income. Money income, in turn, depends on the quantity, quality and the types of resources and the prices of the product. Therefore, the distribution of finished goods and services will depend on consumers� ability and willingness to pay the market price. In fact, relative prices ration the available resources, goods and services.

See, Zippy is here politely chirping that socialism is also rationing, but it's "just" rationing by allowing other people decide who gets the benefit of those services you're paying for. Heck, as long as you're rich and you can pay for more than you receive, you can still buy what you want. Doesn't that sound peachy?

The part he misses out on is the economic inefficiency of socialism. As if the"you can simply pay for more than you receive" isn't a big red flag...there is no real downward pressure on price in a single-payer system. Once the government dictates how much a service is worth, that instantly becomes the lowest price for that service in the market. Without competition, there's no incentive to lower price and/or increase efficiency.

 

[Suzanimal]

I hate to do this but in this instance I have to side with Zippy. Health care is a commodity and supply is limited, even though, like the aforementioned Bugatti, it is somewhat artificially limited. The Bugatti is limited by management decision, health care by licensing and educational restrictions. In a capitalist system "The distribution of goods and services depends on the distribution of money income. Money income, in turn, depends on the quantity, quality and the types of resources and the prices of the product. Therefore, the distribution of finished goods and services will depend on consumers� ability and willingness to pay the market price. In fact, relative prices ration the available resources, goods and services.

Zippy is here politely chirping that socialism is also rationing, but it's "just" rationing by allowing other people decide who gets the benefit of those services you're paying for, and as long as you can pay for more than you receive, you can still buy what you want.

The part he misses out on is the economic inefficiency of socialism. There is no real downward pressure on price in a single-payer system. Once the government dictates how much a service is worth, that instantly becomes the lowest price for that service in the market. Without competition, there's no incentive to lower price and/or increase efficiency.

Not Charlie Gard. His parents were willing to buy treatments but the government wouldn't allow it.

 

[Suzanimal]

This happens in the USA all the time. My sister is a good example. Poor girl has boobs that hang down to the top of her legs she needs to have them reduced but they won't do it because she is obese. Her breast have made her disabled she can't even find a bra that fits but she eats plenty of food that is regulated and called safe.

I don't think modern food taste good at all I don't see how anyone could become addicted to it. But I can look at my sister and see that it happens.

Who's they? The insurance company won't cover it or there's not a single doctor who will perform the surgery?

 

[angelatc]

Not Charlie Gard. His parents were willing to buy treatments but the government wouldn't allow it.

Yep, death panels are the inevitable side effect. The Gard case is a fantastic example of how power corrupts basic human nature.

 

[specsaregood]

Yep, death panels are the inevitable side effect. The Gard case is a fantastic example of how power corrupts basic human nature.

And yet you have the case of McMath, the girl pronounced dead in CA, and when CA was going to take her off life support, they inserted a breathing and feed tube, then transported her body to NJ, so that the body could sit on the tit of the NJ taxpayers for years....and still does since NJ has a religious exemption to ending life support.

 

[angelatc]

And yet you have the case of McMath, the girl pronounced dead in CA, and when CA was going to take her off life support, they inserted a breathing and feed tube, then transported her body to NJ, so that the body could sit on the tit of the NJ taxpayers for years....and still does since NJ has a religious exemption to ending life support.

This is why government should not be involved. There's no perfect solution. I remember a case where a young woman married a very old wealthy man, much to the chagrin of his children who were themselves in their 50's. He got sick, and as long as he was on life support young new wife controlled all the money.

There's no perfect solution. But capitalism is the best solution.

 

[Working Poor]

Who's they? The insurance company won't cover it or there's not a single doctor who will perform the surgery?

The insurance won't cover it and no doctor will do the surgery. She is trying to loose weight. She can't really do much exercise because her boobs are soooo big that it makes it difficult to do much she is also very short. It is no doubt that she got fat on her own and it is her problem to loose the weight or not. My family is buying a professional laser skin care machine that can help people lose weight among other things. One of my nieces recently became certified to use them. We found out that one set of 5 treatments for anti aging cost more than the machine so we paid for my niece to become certified. The machine can remove tattoos, treat acne and the scaring, remove wrinkles, remove stretch marks and other scars plus, remove fat. My sister lucked out on this one.

 

[Suzanimal]

The insurance won't cover it and no doctor will do the surgery. She is trying to loose weight. She can't really do much exercise because her boobs are soooo big that it makes it difficult to do much she is also very short. It is no doubt that she got fat on her own and it is her problem to loose the weight or not. My family is buying a professional laser skin care machine that can help people lose weight among other things. One of my nieces recently became certified to use them. We found out that one set of 5 treatments for anti aging cost more than the machine so we paid for my niece to become certified. The machine can remove tattoos, treat acne and the scaring, remove wrinkles, remove stretch marks and other scars plus, remove fat. My sister lucked out on this one.

Well, weight loss is mostly diet so she should be able to drop the pounds. Also, you might want to consider buying her some hand weights. Building muscle will help her and it's something she can do without running around. Good luck to your sister. It's not easy.

 

[Working Poor]

Well, weight loss is mostly diet so she should be able to drop the pounds. Also, you might want to consider buying her some hand weights. Building muscle will help her and it's something she can do without running around. Good luck to your sister. It's not easy.

If I say one word to her or try to do anything to help her loose weight she will promptly gain 100lbs in my honor. The most I can do for her is tell her we have the machine and hope she asks for help.

 

[Suzanimal]

If I say one word to her or try to do anything to help her loose weight she will promptly gain 100lbs in my honor. The most I can do for her is tell her we have the machine and hope she asks for help.

Ah, I understand. That's too bad.

 

[Schifference]

If I say one word to her or try to do anything to help her loose weight she will promptly gain 100lbs in my honor. The most I can do for her is tell her we have the machine and hope she asks for help.

So the person with the problem does not want to hear the solution. They only want for you to sympathize with their problem. They do not want to take action and solve their own issue.

Real life example. A year ago I agreed to take in two overweight elderly people that could not walk and had been in serious decline for over 5 year. They were dependent on me. They were not going anywhere by themselves. As mentioned they were in wheel chairs and declining daily.

Eliminated carbohydrates. Woman was 170 went down to 124. Man was 219 went down to 168. At the reduced weight they were still seriously overweight. But they were/are able to walk and climb stairs and care for themselves now.

The massive weight loss took place probably over a 3 month period with NO exercise.

They are poor and qualify to be picked up by a bus and transported to a day care facility. They were going to the day care facility and I noticed her walking deteriorated. Put her on a scale and see she was gaining weight and so was he. The diet at this day care center is reimbursed by the state and must meet strict guidelines. Ha ha ha. Totally loaded with carbohydrates and morning and afternoon snacks. I took them out of the day care facility and dedicated one month with them. Enrolled them at the senior center and took them there daily for activities. I prepared low carb lunch and packed it with us. I would park as far away from the entrance as possible. I would not help them into a 4x4 Yukon, open doors for them or anything. I had them walking 30 minutes 3 times a day and doing video exercise. They were enjoying WII bowling. They were healthy and able to walk with no issues.

A couple of months ago they returned to the day care facility 3 days a week and the senior center 2 days a week. They choose against my repeated advice and encouragement to eat the food provided at these facilities. He has gained over 20 pounds she has gained 11 pounds. If the carbohydrate food is available to them they will eat it. At first I was packing them nutritious food but they would bring it home.

I am at the point of not caring. Let them decline to a point where they cannot walk again and let them get admitted into a Long Term Care Facility (LTC) where they like people that don't walk because they don't pose a fall risk. The LTC would keep them alive for many years with drugs and more drugs and spoon feeding when they cannot feed themselves. LTC facilities don't want people to get better they want you as a steady customer. I was a nurse for over 5 years at one and saw people that never spoke once had no interaction with others, no television or radio. When I started working there they were laying in bed looking lifeless being spoonfed with diapers changed. Years later they looked the same.

What a shame that people would choose that life over being healthy and active. I refuse to enable people. If you sister cannot handle the truth or will not accept you for your words of wisdom then that is her problem. If I were you I would make my peace with myself and know I did the best I could do for her and stop concerning myself about her situation. She chooses to be the way she is. She is not handicapped, paralyzed, mentally challenged. She is just a fat woman that wont take the necessary action to become healthy.

 

[angelatc]

The insurance won't cover it and no doctor will do the surgery.

That makes me crazy. There are surgeons out there who will carve up a crazy girl so she can pretend to look like Barbie, but they won't this.

 

[Working Poor]

So the person with the problem does not want to hear the solution. They only want for you to sympathize with their problem. They do not want to take action and solve their own issue.

Real life example. A year ago I agreed to take in two overweight elderly people that could not walk and had been in serious decline for over 5 year. They were dependent on me. They were not going anywhere by themselves. As mentioned they were in wheel chairs and declining daily.

Eliminated carbohydrates. Woman was 170 went down to 124. Man was 219 went down to 168. At the reduced weight they were still seriously overweight. But they were/are able to walk and climb stairs and care for themselves now.

The massive weight loss took place probably over a 3 month period with NO exercise.

They are poor and qualify to be picked up by a bus and transported to a day care facility. They were going to the day care facility and I noticed her walking deteriorated. Put her on a scale and see she was gaining weight and so was he. The diet at this day care center is reimbursed by the state and must meet strict guidelines. Ha ha ha. Totally loaded with carbohydrates and morning and afternoon snacks. I took them out of the day care facility and dedicated one month with them. Enrolled them at the senior center and took them there daily for activities. I prepared low carb lunch and packed it with us. I would park as far away from the entrance as possible. I would not help them into a 4x4 Yukon, open doors for them or anything. I had them walking 30 minutes 3 times a day and doing video exercise. They were enjoying WII bowling. They were healthy and able to walk with no issues.

A couple of months ago they returned to the day care facility 3 days a week and the senior center 2 days a week. They choose against my repeated advice and encouragement to eat the food provided at these facilities. He has gained over 20 pounds she has gained 11 pounds. If the carbohydrate food is available to them they will eat it. At first I was packing them nutritious food but they would bring it home.

I am at the point of not caring. Let them decline to a point where they cannot walk again and let them get admitted into a Long Term Care Facility (LTC) where they like people that don't walk because they don't pose a fall risk. The LTC would keep them alive for many years with drugs and more drugs and spoon feeding when they cannot feed themselves. LTC facilities don't want people to get better they want you as a steady customer. I was a nurse for over 5 years at one and saw people that never spoke once had no interaction with others, no television or radio. When I started working there they were laying in bed looking lifeless being spoonfed with diapers changed. Years later they looked the same.

What a shame that people would choose that life over being healthy and active. I refuse to enable people. If you sister cannot handle the truth or will not accept you for your words of wisdom then that is her problem. If I were you I would make my peace with myself and know I did the best I could do for her and stop concerning myself about her situation. She chooses to be the way she is. She is not handicapped, paralyzed, mentally challenged. She is just a fat woman that wont take the necessary action to become healthy.

Believe me I have tried many things to try and help my sister. After about 20 years of trying to help I gave up. My sister is much more over weight than your two charges. She needs to loose at least 200 pounds. She is very short, asthmatic, knees blown out, huge boobs and can barely walk.

I plan to tell her about the machine that my son and I are buying. I will tell her what the machine does point to some of the problems I want to solve on my own body and will show her the results. She has lost some weight. I know she knows she won't be able to have any of the surgery she needs if she does not loose weight.

 

[Anti Federalist]

That makes me crazy. There are surgeons out there who will carve up a crazy girl so she can pretend to look like Barbie, but they won't this.

I'm convinced half of these "doctors" are nothing but crazed Frankensteins.

Yah, won't touch a case like this, with obvious suffering, but will jump all over the chance to mutilate genitals or, like you noted, turn a crazy woman into a Barbie, an anime or a cat.

 

[jllundqu]

If you are not rationed by what your insurance plan will cover, you are rationed by what you can afford personally if you don't insure. Unless you have unlimited resources, you will be limited on how much "healthcare" you can buy/ use. I may want a particular treatment for say cancer but if I cannot afford it, then it is rationed to what I can actually afford (again, either with or without insurance). If I can't afford that huge TV, then for me, the TV is rationed.

What sort of nonsense is this? You're conflating terms. What you are talking about is not rationing, for god's sake! If I 'want' a new Chevy Tahoe, but can't afford one, does that mean it's 'rationed'? Fuck no.

Rationing is when bureaucrats decide who lives and who dies, who gets help and who doesn't, who gets treatment and who doesn't, etc etc.

Jesus. Even something as simple as this OP and you just can't find it in yourself to not be a douche.

 

[Schifference]

Believe me I have tried many things to try and help my sister. After about 20 years of trying to help I gave up. My sister is much more over weight than your two charges. She needs to loose at least 200 pounds. She is very short, asthmatic, knees blown out, huge boobs and can barely walk.

I plan to tell her about the machine that my son and I are buying. I will tell her what the machine does point to some of the problems I want to solve on my own body and will show her the results. She has lost some weight. I know she knows she won't be able to have any of the surgery she needs if she does not loose weight.

Who is enabling her? Somebody has to be shopping, & cooking. She obviously is not working.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

So the person with the problem does not want to hear the solution. They only want for you to sympathize with their problem. They do not want to take action and solve their own issue.

Real life example. A year ago I agreed to take in two overweight elderly people that could not walk and had been in serious decline for over 5 year. They were dependent on me. They were not going anywhere by themselves. As mentioned they were in wheel chairs and declining daily.

Eliminated carbohydrates. Woman was 170 went down to 124. Man was 219 went down to 168. At the reduced weight they were still seriously overweight. But they were/are able to walk and climb stairs and care for themselves now.

The massive weight loss took place probably over a 3 month period with NO exercise.

They are poor and qualify to be picked up by a bus and transported to a day care facility. They were going to the day care facility and I noticed her walking deteriorated. Put her on a scale and see she was gaining weight and so was he. The diet at this day care center is reimbursed by the state and must meet strict guidelines. Ha ha ha. Totally loaded with carbohydrates and morning and afternoon snacks. I took them out of the day care facility and dedicated one month with them. Enrolled them at the senior center and took them there daily for activities. I prepared low carb lunch and packed it with us. I would park as far away from the entrance as possible. I would not help them into a 4x4 Yukon, open doors for them or anything. I had them walking 30 minutes 3 times a day and doing video exercise. They were enjoying WII bowling. They were healthy and able to walk with no issues.

A couple of months ago they returned to the day care facility 3 days a week and the senior center 2 days a week. They choose against my repeated advice and encouragement to eat the food provided at these facilities. He has gained over 20 pounds she has gained 11 pounds. If the carbohydrate food is available to them they will eat it. At first I was packing them nutritious food but they would bring it home.

I am at the point of not caring. Let them decline to a point where they cannot walk again and let them get admitted into a Long Term Care Facility (LTC) where they like people that don't walk because they don't pose a fall risk. The LTC would keep them alive for many years with drugs and more drugs and spoon feeding when they cannot feed themselves. LTC facilities don't want people to get better they want you as a steady customer. I was a nurse for over 5 years at one and saw people that never spoke once had no interaction with others, no television or radio. When I started working there they were laying in bed looking lifeless being spoonfed with diapers changed. Years later they looked the same.

What a shame that people would choose that life over being healthy and active. I refuse to enable people. If you sister cannot handle the truth or will not accept you for your words of wisdom then that is her problem. If I were you I would make my peace with myself and know I did the best I could do for her and stop concerning myself about her situation. She chooses to be the way she is. She is not handicapped, paralyzed, mentally challenged. She is just a fat woman that wont take the necessary action to become healthy.

It's harsh medicine, but I agree with Schifference.

I had a similar story. I blew up my ankle playing basketball at the age of 26, and went from lifting weights twice a week and playing basketball for 15 hours a week to lifting once a week and not being able to walk for a month, and not being able to freely get around for several months (basketball is still out of the question 6 years later). Over the ensuing year, I ballooned from 215-225 pounds to 275 pounds. Some was added muscle from excessive calories and weight training, but the majority of the weight gain was fat.

I dumped cereal, bread, and pasta, and adopted the majority of the paleo diet. While doing precisely zero cardio and lifting weights once a week, I dropped 70 pounds in 8 months. By sitting on my butt and changing my diet.

For more personal information regarding weight and how it affects lives, I'm considering leaving my fiancee because she won't lose weight. It's certainly why she's still my fiancee and not my wife; I'm not going to marry someone who becomes my mother, ravaged by diabetes and weight related issues. She watched me melt my weight while doing very little other than change my diet (I've kept the weight off with ease since), and it's creating resentment that she doesn't care enough to change anything.

 

[Working Poor]

Who is enabling her? Somebody has to be shopping, & cooking. She obviously is not working.

My mother enabled her for years and years. Now that mom is gone she has to do everything for herself which is a pretty rude awaking for her. Now she has to walk to the store which fortunately for her is very close to where she lives. I sure every aching step she has to take to the grocery store reminds her of how bad she has been to her body. She know longer has mom's retirement check coming in so she has to be oh so careful with the small income she has. I hate that mom had to die before she would take charge of her life but it is what it is.