Have you ever studied, "The Allegory of the Cave?"

Crickett said:
This post and allegory really got to me. I do not remember discussing this when I took philosophy. I used to like all the differing views until I finally found Truth, and then never messed with it again. The thing that disturbs me about this is something quite different than I have seen mentioned. See, darkness flees when light comes in, and I have often said that darkness has never even SEEN light. I mean to get rid of darkness you do not carry buckets of it out, you just bring in light. Shadows, on the other hand, seem to be pieces of darkness that can not SURVIVE without light. They would not exist without it. Light illuminates the shadows. This was not a false light, and the fire surely illuminated faces so the people could not possibly think ALL life was shadow, could they? I never thought about shadows like this before. It actually is scary.
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You're thinking to much into it. It's not the specific physics of the allegory that you should pay attention to, but rather, the basic concept and mental image it's trying to display.

It doesn't mean you're wrong, about shadows though.
 
My H has a masters in Philosophy I read all his college books one day when I did not have anything else to do.

I see the value of using Philosophy to reach people who are reachable thru philosophy. Some people do not want to be free...
 
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boneyard bill said:
I don't think Plato was arguing that the masses were hoodwinked although that is a plausible interpretation since it appears in the Republic which is presumed to be a political work. But I think the political part is a metaphor for the human condition - the inability of humans to grasp the true nature of ultimate reality. At the end of the book, Plato more or less says that he's using the example of a republic as a model for the human psyche.
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I often think about people's inability to grasp reality as a consequence of bad people who grab power, manipulating the lives of those not in power through distractions, appeasement for a purpose and the illusion of education, incremental changes over decades to achieve their agendas, greed, always having false bogeymen, and manipulation of language in order to further steal their liberties and control them.

Sadly, many people fall for all the tricks and fail to question authority, fail to question anything for lack of interest and abdication of their own responsibility. It pains me that so many cannot see through the smog of deception and grasp the truth. The old frog in the slowly warming pot of water has worked its evil magic. Reality is right in front of us to see, yet so many do not see it. For example, how is it that so few people can see that our leaders have repeated the same mistakes for decades, and we as a country are so much worse off. Our leaders have instituted terrible socialist programs costing trillions of dollars and these programs and policies have only made matters worse, yet people demand more of the same. Unbelievable! It is as though we as a people are not mature enough to handle our own freedom and prosperity when we had it.

There seems to be a complete lack of a thirst for knowledge and I am amazed by that because I cannot conceive of not wanting to constantly learn. It would destroy me if I could not keep learning.

Nice thread.
 



There are a variety of reasons why some people fall victim...my experience as a therapist has indicated that it is not so easy to free people...many, many of us, in our own ways are trapped...what you learn to do is take what progress you can get and appreciate it, as each person would have moved forward in some way...best not to have expectations but to cherish the growth...Ron has promoted lots of growth...the problem is more to do with the people who are consciously and deliberately enslaving others...those who know exactly what they are doing and continue to do it...these are the real poisonous people..better to focus on those, eradicating them...those of us that are trapped will then eventually come around...our true nature is to be free after all..and that is the bigger fight that i think Ron is waging right now! Ron is one of the greater philosophers of our times...Prophet is the right word!!
 
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I was taught this story in fifth grade. It is a good story and illustrates several features of human makeup, but it is not enough. Philosophy is neither a sufficient nor even a necessary element for free living on the broader scale in the way I take you to suggest elsewhere. It is a "nice to have" and I fully agree that the more people that would embrace some minimal interest, perhaps the better off would be the world, but even that cannot be reasonably guaranteed. Marx and Mao used philosophical elements to ends that I believe no sane and rational man would consider good. One moral of that story is that a little knowledge can be very dangerous. Another moral may be that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

To my mind, the only philosophical necessity for each person is the body of principles I have christened "The Canon Of Individual Sovereignty". This is my treatment of principles such as that of "self ownership" and "non-aggression". If we must have public schools (yech) then it is my belief that a 12 year course of study of these principles should be topmost in the body of required subject matter. By the time a student leaves secondary school with his diploma he should be ready to write a doctoral thesis on the Canon. In my opinion the Canon is the only rational and just standard for human behavior and that it goes the furthest that any written corpus can in providing such a standard. The rest is up to the will of people to choose either to live in a state of mutual respect or in some condition of violation of his fellows.

Teach the canon and show how to live by it practically. If we do this, the rest falls into place naturally as people choose their paths in life freely. Happiness and prosperity is maximized through liberty as per the Canon when people choose to live by that handful of simple principles. This first. Fancier things, later.
 
I think we do a great disservice by imagining ourselves "enlightened" and "awake" and those with differing opinions " chained by false ideas" and "asleep."

This is simply not the case.

Plenty of very intelligent people have examined both sides of the equation and have chosen statism through their own self interest - they are not ignorant, just pursuing their own ends.

We, part of the 11% who follow Ron Paul and his philosophy, are no more intelligent or enlightened than "the masses."

We, just like they, have simply chosen a different road which we believe will maximize our interests.
 
teacherone said:
I think we do a great disservice by imagining ourselves "enlightened" and "awake" and those with differing opinions " chained by false ideas" and "asleep."

This is simply not the case.

Plenty of very intelligent people have examined both sides of the equation and have chosen statism through their own self interest - they are not ignorant, just pursuing their own ends.

We, part of the 11% who follow Ron Paul and his philosophy, are no more intelligent or enlightened than "the masses."

We, just like they, have simply chosen a different road which we believe will maximize our interests.
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yea but we are right right? :D
 
teacherone said:
I think we do a great disservice by imagining ourselves "enlightened" and "awake" and those with differing opinions " chained by false ideas" and "asleep."
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Excellent point. Humans are a little too fond of the zero-sum game even in thought and opinion, translating into "I'm right and the rest of you assholes are wrong." Why this is preferable to the respectful "agree to disagree" school of thought, which is one of the results of adopting the Golden Rule (live and let live) as the basis of one's philosophy of life, escapes me. This mindset has underpinned the vast and overwhelming proportion of human misery since the time of our earliest written history.

The truly mind-spanking aspect of this is that the race has not learned the lesson.

Plenty of very intelligent people have examined both sides of the equation and have chosen statism through their own self interest - they are not ignorant, just pursuing their own ends.
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And that is OK, all else equal, but so many refuse to see it. It never ceases to amaze me to witness the almost limitless potential for so many people to hold two violently conflicting opinions without any sense of inconsistency. One example is the so-called "christian" who blathers on endlessly about freedom from the one side of his mouth while condemning homosexuals and so-called "gay marriage" from the other. This sort of rank hypocrisy can be found in people from all walks of life. It is an all too common human failing

We, part of the 11% who follow Ron Paul and his philosophy, are no more intelligent or enlightened than "the masses."
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Generally I would agree, but in a narrow sense, I would not. Ron Paul expresses a belief in human freedom - freedom to choose to live as one wishes, barring the usual prohibitions on harming others. This position furnishes the individual with expansively broad avenues of choice. Those who wish to live as socialists are free to do so. Those who wish to be capitalists are equally free to choose that. Like wearing rubber clothing? Have at it. Drugs? Gay? Christian? Hindu? Satanist? Knock yourselves out, but show the same respect to others that you demand of them and cause no harm.

For my money the live and let live viewpoint is far and away more "enlightened" because it allows for people to choose as they wish with the greatest latitude. To equate the value of such a philosophical position with that of, say, socialism is to imply the moral equivalence of tyranny and freedom. When analyzed to sufficient depth the reasoning fails quite spectacularly.
 
i like this thread. i'm thinking mitt romney's tv image over in my mind. i am in deep thought.
 
Oh my gosh, as a philosophy student, I LOVE you for this! The Allegory of the Cave was always my favorite from Plato (that and the Myth of Er and the Levels of Love) and I have always paralled the story to that of the Ron Paul campaign. Thanks for this and if it ever comes up in my class, I'll be sure to use the opportunity to tell the world we have a modern-day Socrates in our midst!
 
Sunstruck-Eden said:
Oh my gosh, as a philosophy student, I LOVE you for this! The Allegory of the Cave was always my favorite from Plato (that and the Myth of Er and the Levels of Love) and I have always paralled the story to that of the Ron Paul campaign. Thanks for this and if it ever comes up in my class, I'll be sure to use the opportunity to tell the world we have a modern-day Socrates in our midst!
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I'm glad you liked it!
 
The entire The Republicwas written as an allegory for the human soul. Furthermore when interpreted politically it flies in the face of libertarianism. Ill not learn my basics here.
 
bolil said:
The entire The Republicwas written as an allegory for the human soul. Furthermore when interpreted politically it flies in the face of libertarianism. Ill not learn my basics here.
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I do not see how it flies in the face of Libertarianism. Considering that the interpretation completely fits to our modern day scenario.
 
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