HAHAHA...Stupid Fair Tax

[stevenstremciuc]

You don't think that used car salesmen wouldn't jack up the cost of a used car just because they'd be able to get more? The buyer would be saving the "sales tax" on the purchase, so what the heck...Jack up the price for whatever the market will accept.

You're right. There is only 1 used car salesman in the country, and he doesn't have to compete with anyone else when he sells his cars, so he can just jack the price up to whatever he wants. Oh wait... that's not how it works at all.

 

[jglapski]

This is such a fallacy.

Fair Tax actually works beautifully here, without any additional effort! No reputable merchant would risk not collecting the sales tax. Second hand sales SHOULDN'T be taxed -- the tax has already been paid. And by moving the tax upstream to the producer (I think this is how VAT works), you can really eliminate just about all fraud.

There wouldn't be a black market because there can't be a black market.

There can't be a black market? Give me a break.

I ask my customer for my money. I'll charge you $1000, or $850 cash. I win because I get to keep $850 rather than $770. The customer wins because he spends $850 rather than $1000.

Perhaps I've maybe done this with a 6% sales tax, quite possibly. It sure as hell would be done with a 30% sales tax.

 

[wgadget]

Sure as hell.

 

[Flirple]

Ah yes, the beauty of the legislative process. Most bills are perfect until they are modified beyond recognition or have amendments that flip the purpose of the bill around. The fairtax fans (and I used to be one) are more idealistic than any Ron Paul supporter. If you ask them if any part of the fairtax plan were to be changed they would just say that it wouldn't be the fairtax anymore. Well, one thing they say isn't taxed is educational services. Why does that get an exemption? Why not renewable energy? Do they really not think that lawmakers wouldn't modify the law in future years? That's what happens with our current tax code. Credits, deductions, exemptions all get added in. Same thing will happen with the fairtax. Given the choice between the fairtax or the original income tax we had in this country, I'll take the original income tax. The maximum rate was a whopping 1%. It quickly went up to 77%. Don't think that any sales tax won't be immune to a rate change, maybe more easily than an income tax rate change. The solution is to address spending, and Huckabee won't do a thing to reduce it.

Like I said earlier, I don't disagree. And therefore all criticisms of Huckabee promoting the fairtax should rest with that line of reasoning and not with lying about the particulars of the bill as it is written. If you want to dismiss the FairTax than you should focus on the legitimate concerns such as "how can I be sure that a shlub like Huckabee or the ones in office right now will implement this plan as advertise and not give us 2 systems etc. "

I just dislike all the disinformation. There are plenty of reasons to be hesitant about putting politician in charge of a major tax overhaul. Especially when their fiscal records (thinking of Huckabee here) are horrible.

 

[PimpBlimp]

I think it would kill the economy. People would be less inclined to go out and spend because of the huge sales tax.

 

[wgadget]

You're right. There is only 1 used car salesman in the country, and he doesn't have to compete with anyone else when he sells his cars, so he can just jack the price up to whatever he wants. Oh wait... that's not how it works at all.

I just meant used stuff in general...I was just trying to give an example.

 

[stevenstremciuc]

I think it would kill the economy. People would be less inclined to go out and spend because of the huge sales tax.

Considering that you no longer have to pay income tax, death tax, capital gains tax etc, what do you think the entire work force is going to do with their substantially larger incomes? Stuff it under their mattresses?

 

[jglapski]

Critics always say the rate is 30% instead of 23% to scare people.

Bullshit.

Honest people calculate the percentage based on the original base.

How much money do you get if you deposit $100 at 23% for one year?

 

[integrity]

the illegals would love it!

 

[amonasro]

If there's a fairtax I'm buying everything on ebay.

 

[DDMX]

From what I understand, stuff would be the same price or CHEAPER.

Because it ELIMINATES like 20 or 25 percent of Embedded tax, from the factory, materials the factory buys, import taxes, or whatever etc..

 

[Flirple]

Bullshit.

Honest people calculate the percentage based on the original base.

How much money do you get if you deposit $100 at 23% for one year?

I repeat, the current income tax is calculated in the same way as the FairTaxe's inclusive rate.

 

[Flirple]

From what I understand, stuff would be the same price or CHEAPER.

Because it ELIMINATES like 20 or 25 percent of Embedded tax, from the factory, materials the factory buys, import taxes, or whatever etc..

Right, well probably not cheaper, but probably less than 5% more expensive. Remember, you have more money to spend or save in the first place from the removal of the income tax.

 

[homah]

If there's a fairtax I'm buying everything on ebay.

so, so true.

 

[devil21]

If there's a fairtax I'm buying everything on ebay.

How long do you think it would take for the Feds to mandate regulating the internet to require all online purchases be charged the FairTax sales tax? I actually find this proposal as a way to regulate online business and get deeper gov't access to the internet. Instead of paying Paypal with no sales tax, you would pay the feds (or Paypal that now has inhouse feds) who then take their 23/30% and pass the rest on to the seller. I honestly worry more about this as being a way for the gov't to get its hands into regulating the internet and internet commerce. No one can deny that the net is taking a big chunk out of retail storefront business.

 

[Flirple]

the illegals would love it!

What are you talking about? Right now illegal immigrants are not paying income tax. Under the a national sales tax we would be taxing, illegals, prostitutes, drug dealers, etc. which eases the tax burden that is placed on the rest of us currently. See my post #29

 

[integrity]

What are you talking about? Right now illegal immigrants are not paying income tax. Under the a national sales tax we would be taxing, illegals, prostitutes, drug dealers, etc. which eases the tax burden that is placed on the rest of us currently. See my post #29

ok, so maybe not illegals, but organized crime would form huge black markets...

prohibition doesn't work!

 

[Manganese]

Every sales tax I've ever heard of is measured exclusively. The only one that gets measured inclusively is the FairTax, and it's just to make the truth more palatable.

The reality is that we're probably going to find ourselves with the FairTax.. on top of the income tax. States have both already, so why not the federal government? They'll implement FairTax on a limited basis with the reasoning that it will be "ramped up" while income tax will be "phased out." Then it's simply a matter of doing the former and not the latter.

 

[Lordsteven]

The reason the fair tax has to be so high(23%, 30%, or some even say higher) is because its all inclusive, it replaces all taxes(income, payroll, corporate, estate....ect.) Some of the major benefits include the dropping of the corporate tax, the US currently has I think the second highest corporate tax in the world. Getting rid of it would do a lot to stop all of the large corporations from leaving the US and probably get quite a few to return. Another benefit is a vast simplification of the tax code, saving everyone money all around. And a third benefit being actually getting money from the black markets, illegal immigrants, and drug dealers for the fact they have to spend that money they are getting on "goods" at some point, all the current money they make goes unseen so therefore untaxed.

Now the Cons and there are some big ones. First the current plan puts a tax on all new goods that includes cars and homes, can you imagine paying 23% on top of the cost of a new car or home. Although people will eventually adjust to the price increase the first 5-10 years would be absolutely devastating to the construction and auto industries(probably all industies though especially retail). Although I think there are some transition programs, there surely would be a inevitable recession type backlash because of it. Another problem I have is it makes it easier from the government to change what to rakes in, the congress could slowly jack up the tax rate at any time if they run short on funds. And lastly my main beef with it is the fact that the prebate program would effectively put everyone on a welfare program.

Now as much as I'd like to see the income tax repealed it's a pipe dream, it would take probably 10-15 years of a paul-like presidency and congress that agreed. What I do think is possible though is a mixture of the current system and the flat tax. Drop the Capital gains, Payroll, and income tax Period! You keep the Corporate tax but knock 10-15% off to lower it between 5%(small businesses) and 20%(large businesses). Keep the Death tax but change it to 25%-35% of all estates worth over 5-10 million. Raise the age of Social Security programs by almost 10 years, 67 to 75(The original 1933 program almost makes sense, you didn't get the money until 65 but the average life span was around 58) And finally instate a national sales tax of around 6%-8% and put a lock on the percentage that it can't be raised. Do that along with some government spending cuts and you might have an actually workable tax plan.

 

[EvoPro]

I am extremely against the fair tax, the pre-bate would enlarge the welfare state mentality. However I am for a low rate consumption tax that does not tax food, health care and other necessities.