HAHAHA...Stupid Fair Tax

[mxktm185]

Especially on a pretty good proposal like the FairTax. http://www.fairtax.org/site/News2?news_iv_ctrl=1541&page=NewsArticle&id=8248

I'm currently still on the fence about the Fair Tax. But for perspective, here's what FactCheck.org had to say about the Fair Tax proposal: http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/unspinning_the_fairtax.html

Doesn't sound too good from that evaluation, but I'll reserve my final judgement for after I've learned a little more about the arguments coming from each side.

Of course, I agree with Dr. Paul - a truly Fair Tax would be 0%.

 

[Danny Molina]

I hate the idea of the fair tax. I'm more of a fan of the flat tax.

 

[CareerTech1]

if it were 10% national sales / consumption tax (no more than a tithe) then fine -

i prefer Ron Paul's plan of no more fed income tax and not replacing it with anything.

 

[paulgeek]

If it were to be implimented as the bill is written it would be an awesome improvement.

Ah yes, the beauty of the legislative process. Most bills are perfect until they are modified beyond recognition or have amendments that flip the purpose of the bill around. The fairtax fans (and I used to be one) are more idealistic than any Ron Paul supporter. If you ask them if any part of the fairtax plan were to be changed they would just say that it wouldn't be the fairtax anymore. Well, one thing they say isn't taxed is educational services. Why does that get an exemption? Why not renewable energy? Do they really not think that lawmakers wouldn't modify the law in future years? That's what happens with our current tax code. Credits, deductions, exemptions all get added in. Same thing will happen with the fairtax. Given the choice between the fairtax or the original income tax we had in this country, I'll take the original income tax. The maximum rate was a whopping 1%. It quickly went up to 77%. Don't think that any sales tax won't be immune to a rate change, maybe more easily than an income tax rate change. The solution is to address spending, and Huckabee won't do a thing to reduce it.

 

[jhabers]

I would like the fair tax if it was 10%.

One thing I don't understand about the "prebate" though, is how the government is supposed to know who is "low income" and who is not. Seems like you would need another IRS to figure that out.

everyone gets the prebate. its the amount of tax that you would spend up the the poverty level. So if the poverty level is 20K (pulling numbers out my ass) then everyone would get a check for the tax on 20K

 

[Agent CSL]

This is how I understand it. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

The Fairtax charges all purchases at a very high rate. So if you are a low-income family, your grocery bill could shoot up to $130 from $100 (maybe $140 with local taxes). That would really hurt families. Also, even church items are taxable - so much for separation of church and state. What I see is the FairTax hurting a lot of low-income families, seniors, churches and non-profits. Big Business will not be effected whatsoever.

 

[stevenstremciuc]

One thing I don't understand about the "prebate" though, is how the government is supposed to know who is "low income" and who is not. Seems like you would need another IRS to figure that out.

EVERY CITIZEN gets a prebate. Don't know who told you otherwise, but they lied to you, and you are spreading the misinformation.

I support the Fair Tax, and Ron Paul himself has said he would sign the bill into law if he was President.

 

[stevenstremciuc]

So if you are a low-income family, your grocery bill could shoot up to $130 from $100 (maybe $140 with local taxes).

You get a prebate every month that covers this tax. Every citizen gets it, the same amount, regardless of income. The prebate is calculated from what a family of your size would spend on national sales tax every month up to the poverty line. You get that money in a check every month.

 

[Flirple]

a 30% sales tax would encourage black market sales just as much as the income tax encourages underreporting.

Wrong. First of all you will only be paying less than 5% more for goods than you currently do now while having a lot more sending cash due to not paying all the federal taxes you do know (see posts #10 and #17).

Second, we currently have a huge black market that we are not taxing right now with the income tax. Under the FairTax we would for the first time be taxing money from the drug trade, prostitution, and illegal immigrants who are not paying income tax.

Best method is a flat tax of 0%

Of course!!!!! But it is disingenous to compare this fact to the FairTax. The FairTax is not being advertised as a cut in spending. It is simply a much more efficient way to collect taxes. By making in less costly to collect the taxes (meaning government spends less money while stealing our money) everyone would end up having less of a tax burden than they currently do. The FairTax is meant to be something that people of all political persuasions (liberal, neocon, libertarian, green, etc.) can find common ground on. Of course we would all be disappointed to have Ron Paul be promoting the FairTax (although he says he would vote for it if it came up) because Ron Paul actually "gets it".

But for all the other current economic flunkies running for office (who I know will never be able to grasp the gold standard let alone promote it) the FairTax would be a great thing for them to pass.

 

[integrity]

i will fight the fair tax because it is nothing more than a band-aid on the infection, and then when we want real reform, the powers that be will say: what? you want MORE GRUEL???

 

[Steele]

For those who don't understand the FairTax, go to fairtax.org and read up. It's true that many RP supporters also support the Fairtax as a SECOND option. Eliminating the IRS outright would be a FIRST option.

When Huckabee drops out, RP supporters are going to want to attract the supporters of Huckabee who are going with him STRICTLY for his support of the Fairtax. Go to Fairtax.org and you'll understand how to bring them into the fold.

 

[MJfromCT]

The fair tax may be the easiest way to work our way down from the large spending at the federal level. Set the federal rate at let's just say 16% in 2009 then 13% in 2010 and 10% in2011. We wean ourselves off of unnecessary programs and create new jobs in the private sector (to replace the large number of govt. jobs) with the benefit of more money in individuals pockets stimulating true growth and investment.
Not set on this idea but it seems reasonable. Of course give me 0% eventually on the federal level and I will be ecstatic.

 

[Flirple]

And I can just imagine the prices of used stuff going through the roof.

Wrong. The FairTax is only on new products, never on used product. This way, everything is taxed only once. Unlike now were stuff is taxed at every stage (when we profit from reselling a product, while earning the money, while investing the money, while inheriting the money, while manufacturing a product, while running a business which makes product which in turn makes the products more expensive, etc.)

 

[literatim]

If you get a 'fair tax', you will just end up with both an income and sales tax.

 

[Flirple]

the fair tax would insure that the spending would continue with no chance of real reform. Huckabee has never criticized the Fed either (to my knowledge) We will never get out of the hole without ending the (fraud) interest on the national debt.

This is the sort of criticism that is actually worthy of debate. As opposed to all the other misinformation and ignorance of the details of a very good plan.

 

[wgadget]

Wrong. The FairTax is only on new products, never on used product. This way, everything is taxed only once. Unlike now were stuff is taxed at every stage (when we profit from reselling a product, while earning the money, while investing the money, while inheriting the money, while manufacturing a product, while running a business which makes product which in turn makes the products more expensive, etc.)

You don't think that used car salesmen wouldn't jack up the cost of a used car just because they'd be able to get more? The buyer would be saving the "sales tax" on the purchase, so what the heck...Jack up the price for whatever the market will accept.

 

[stevenstremciuc]

Given the choice between the fairtax or the original income tax we had in this country, I'll take the original income tax. The maximum rate was a whopping 1%. It quickly went up to 77%. Don't think that any sales tax won't be immune to a rate change, maybe more easily than an income tax rate change. The solution is to address spending, and Huckabee won't do a thing to reduce it.

The largest problem with an income tax is withholding. People don't even realize the money is disappearing from their paychecks before they cash the check. People will be much more aware and outraged on any increase in sales tax, on any items. While a politician could game a national sales tax, it'd still be much more transparent/difficult than gaming the current system. Ideally we'd have 0% income tax, but the Fair Tax is a vast improvement over any income tax.

 

[Flirple]

And what makes you so sure that corporations wouldn't try to pad their prices? How would we know what their actual cost is?

This comment is particularly disappointing to find on a Ron Paul message board because if you should immediately understand that corporations don't set the prices. The market does. It's not that they wouldn't want to pad their prices, its that the laws of economics makes it impossible. Have we learned nothing about economics from Ron Paul?

 

[adwads]

What's bad about the fair tax is that they are going to have tax rebates that go out to EVERYBODY in the country...this will function as the single greatest entitlement program EVER in America...people will be DEPENDENT on their government rebate check.

I know I know, it's not an entitlement program because its your money being returned to you...but it will still function as an entitlement program and make people dependent.

 

[wgadget]

The transparency just isn't there when we don't know what cost is...sorry.