H.R.4980: Permanent No-Fly Grounding For Unvaccinated

[cjm]

Did it ever occur to you that getting you to sign up for the trusted traveller program was the plan all along? "Oh goody! I circumvented the system....by giving them exactly what they wanted."

If you're suggesting that I thought I was outwitting them, I assure that's not true. Like all government encroachment, there's a damned if you do, damned if you don't element to all of this. I chose the least of several evils. No "goody" from me.

I don't think a pat down is an unreasonable General Welfare security measure before boarding an aircraft. I've never been "raped" by one but maybe [MENTION=25558]cjm[/MENTION] can elaborate on that since he opts out every time. I'm not aware of any finger scans being required of all passengers as a condition of flying. Do you have info on that?

I have TSA pre-check, so no pat-downs unless I get flagged (very rare) and no finger scans. If I get a pat down, it doesn't seem like much to me, but I grew up playing contact sports and don't get worked up if someone touches my leg. I understand others would have a different opinion. I've been patted down by police on the street and concert security at shows and those have been more thorough. It's an annoyance when it happens, but with the pre-check, it almost never happens. Maybe once or twice a year.
.

...And here is the information about the finger scanning part of the program. I don't have to ask [MENTION=25558]cjm[/MENTION] about it. I can just read about it from the official government website.

At airports, program members proceed to Global Entry kiosks, present their machine-readable passport or U.S. permanent resident card, place their fingerprints on the scanner for fingerprint verification and complete a customs declaration. The kiosk issues the traveler a transaction receipt and directs the traveler to baggage claim and the exit.

Global Entry is a different program. I don't know anything about that, I just have TSA pre-check. Global Entry lines seem to get processed ahead of pre-check. I only provide a boarding pass and a government ID when I board, same as genpop. I just get to keep my shoes, belt, and jacket on, get a metal detector instead of the porno-scanner, and that's about it.

As for finger "scans," I did have to submit a fingerprint or five on the initial application -- I don't recall if it was just a thumb or all fingers from one hand. I know many will see that as "privacy rape" but fedgov already has prints of all ten of my fingers. I didn't provide them anything they didn't already have.

I'm sure next vaccine verification will be added to "trusted traveler."

Masks are enough for me. I can't sit there for hours with a mask on, so I'll probably never fly again. And I'll never take the jab, so that'll restrict work opportunities going forward.

A closed space with recycled air,, and Various Protein Spike Shedding passengers in close proximity.

Less Glamorous than it seems.

No kidding. When people hear about some of the places I've been, they think it's a glamorous life. But these are all work trips and most are not fun (which is why we call it "work"). Even if the work itself is ok, you're still burning time in airports and on planes with strangers while your kids are growing up and your friends are playing basketball or meeting up for happy hour. You expose yourself to the flu/cold every year. Silver lining -- my nutritional renaissance started because of this lifestyle. I've been mega-dosing C and taking other supplements for years prior to the 'rona. But yeah, I'm not interested in exposing myself the the jab shedders either.

 

[jmdrake]

If you're suggesting that I thought I was outwitting them, I assure that's not true. Like all government encroachment, there's a damned if you do, damned if you don't element to all of this. I chose the least of several evils. No "goody" from me.

Okay. As you know the lesser of evils is still evil. For me the lesser of evils is the rapescans. My point is that the fact that you get to choose your lesser evil and I get to choose my lesser evil doesn't mean this isn't an encroachment on the right to travel. This "You can't fly unless you are vaccinated" mandate is no much more of a restriction then what's already been allowed. If we are going to stop it, it has to be stopped now. We can't count on the Courts to rule this law unconstitutional. I don't know how much clearer I can be on the subject.

I have TSA pre-check, so no pat-downs unless I get flagged (very rare) and no finger scans. If I get a pat down, it doesn't seem like much to me, but I grew up playing contact sports and don't get worked up if someone touches my leg. I understand others would have a different opinion. I've been patted down by police on the street and concert security at shows and those have been more thorough. It's an annoyance when it happens, but with the pre-check, it almost never happens. Maybe once or twice a year.

You're male right? (I'm guessing because you said contact sports but women do play rugby and some are now playing tackle football). In that case this doesn't apply to you.

https://www.thesun.ie/travel/129699...-and-middle-eastern-passengers-for-pat-downs/

The funny thing with rights is that their violation is never even handed.

Global Entry is a different program. I don't know anything about that, I just have TSA pre-check. Global Entry lines seem to get processed ahead of pre-check. I only provide a boarding pass and a government ID when I board, same as genpop. I just get to keep my shoes, belt, and jacket on, get a metal detector instead of the porno-scanner, and that's about it.

As for finger "scans," I did have to submit a fingerprint or five on the initial application -- I don't recall if it was just a thumb or all fingers from one hand. I know many will see that as "privacy rape" but fedgov already has prints of all ten of my fingers. I didn't provide them anything they didn't already have.

The feds have a lot of people's DNA too. That doesn't mean I'm fine with them getting more. But DNA samples for travel will probably be coming eventually.

Masks are enough for me. I can't sit there for hours with a mask on, so I'll probably never fly again. And I'll never take the jab, so that'll restrict work opportunities going forward.

I hear ya! I had to take the flu shot last year for a short term job at a hospital. That same hospital just a few months before let me do a similar job with the flu jab. I think they were gearing up to do a COVID vaccine mandate and someone pointed out to them that if they didn't do a flu shot mandate first that would look suspicous.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I don't think a pat down is an unreasonable General Welfare security measure before boarding an aircraft.

Wait...wut?

You're the fellow who tells me all the time that I'm failing at liberty because I won't ride around with homemade paper plates on my car to avoid registration.

But physically putting hands on me, including my genitals, as a condition to travel, is perfectly OK?

 

[PAF]

Quote Originally Posted by devil21
I don't think a pat down is an unreasonable General Welfare security measure before boarding an aircraft.

Wait...wut?

You're the fellow who tells me all the time that I'm failing at liberty because I won't ride around with homemade paper plates on my car to avoid registration.

But physically putting hands on me, including my genitals, as a condition to travel, is perfectly OK?

I just did a wut yikes too :-O

 

[cjm]

Okay. As you know the lesser of evils is still evil. For me the lesser of evils is the rapescans. My point is that the fact that you get to choose your lesser evil and I get to choose my lesser evil doesn't mean this isn't an encroachment on the right to travel. This "You can't fly unless you are vaccinated" mandate is no much more of a restriction then what's already been allowed. If we are going to stop it, it has to be stopped now. We can't count on the Courts to rule this law unconstitutional. I don't know how much clearer I can be on the subject.

Not disagreeing with you, just addressing the idea that I might be happy (the "goody" comment) with the situation. I'm not. Just making the best of a crappy situation. That's why I referred to it as a racket.

You're male right? ...

Correct, I don't fit any profile that pervs want to fondle. They want me out of there just as fast as I do. Funny thing is, I was more put off by the indignity of taking off my shoes than the pat down. I paid the 85 FRNs or whatever it was just to keep my shoes on and go through a metal detector instead of the cancer box.

The feds have a lot of people's DNA too. That doesn't mean I'm fine with them getting more. But DNA samples for travel will probably be coming eventually.

I was only "fine" with the prints because that was the lesser of evils. I don't celebrate any of this, I'm just trying to add personal first-hand experience to the conversation since some elements of the air travel programs seem to be unclear.

I hear ya! I had to take the flu shot last year for a short term job at a hospital. That same hospital just a few months before let me do a similar job with the flu jab. I think they were gearing up to do a COVID vaccine mandate and someone pointed out to them that if they didn't do a flu shot mandate first that would look suspicous.

My annual flu shot is a Jaegermeister. My covid shots are the same. Just got my second covid shot last week. I'm not a regular Jaeger guy, just one or two at the start of cold/flu season to kill the germs and provide more protection than the kill shots.

 

[devil21]

Wait...wut?

You're the fellow who tells me all the time that I'm failing at liberty because I won't ride around with homemade paper plates on my car to avoid registration.

But physically putting hands on me, including my genitals, as a condition to travel, is perfectly OK?

I just did a wut yikes too :-O

Gotta pick your battles sometimes. The main difference being that the car is your property, the plane is not.

 

[PAF]

Gotta pick your battles sometimes. The main difference being that the car is your property, the plane is not.

It is Tax Dollars, where the .gov is supposed to abide by and uphold the Bill of Rights.

If private charter wanted to search me on condition of ticket sale/boarding, that is a different matter.

 

[DamianTV]

Gotta pick your battles sometimes. The main difference being that the car is your property, the plane is not.

Depends.

What has happened is that govt has interfered with the natural interactions between people. Lets take a plane since it is the topic. Instead of a mega corporation that has 1000 planes and 100k employees (just making up numbers), its one guy with one plane. What ever the owner of that plane and his passenger agree on, that establishes precedent. Govt now interferes with that natural relationship.

It wont stop at planes.

- First, its the No Fly list
- Then its the No Gun Ownership list (which is next)
- Then its the No Ground Travel list
- Then its the No Work list
- Then its the No Buy list
- Then its the No Spend list (you do not own your own money)
- Then its the DO NOT FEED list
- Then its the DO NOT ALLOW TO LIVE list.

We are at No Fly. Our next step after No Fly is that a proposed (not yet law) bill will take anyone on the No Fly list and put them on No Gun Ownership list. Thats what they really want. Then they can ramp this shit up to 11 as fast as they want and there will be NO stopping them.

Australia is already at DO NOT FEED list. Thats right, it is already ILLEGAL in Australia to FEED an Anti Vaxxer.

For those of you that think they will ever relax from this Lockdown without an out right CIVIL WAR, think again. They are NEVER lifting the boot off your face.

"Now, imagine a boot stomping on the face of humanity. Forever."

 

[Danke]

 

[jmdrake]

Wait...wut?

You're the fellow who tells me all the time that I'm failing at liberty because I won't ride around with homemade paper plates on my car to avoid registration.

But physically putting hands on me, including my genitals, as a condition to travel, is perfectly OK?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.

 

[jmdrake]

It is Tax Dollars, where the .gov is supposed to abide by and uphold the Bill of Rights.

If private charter wanted to search me on condition of ticket sale/boarding, that is a different matter.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PAF again.

 

[jmdrake]

Gotta pick your battles sometimes. The main difference being that the car is your property, the plane is not.

Sorry, but calling this "picking your battles" is a cop out. There is zero risk to writing/calling your congressperson and saying "Vote hell no on HR 4980" and/or saying "vote hell yes on Rand Paul's proposal to end the TSA." To [MENTION=3169]Anti Federalist[/MENTION]'s point, if you drive around with made up tags on your car you risk being pulled over and having an encounter with officer friendly that might not go your way. And technically the airport is your property because your tax dollars paid for it. The truly private airfields have no TSA requirement.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Gotta pick your battles sometimes. The main difference being that the car is your property, the plane is not.

If I was in a rental car, I would still have what passes for basic rights, including not to be frisked and searched without probable cause.

And yes, you do have to pick your battles.

I choose not to be harassed and arrested and impounded every time I drive off my property.

For 15 years I fought a running battle with IRS, including getting arrested, until I had little kids and realized that having cops drag daddy off to prison on regular basis for not paying Uncle Sucker his blood money would not be good for them.

We all make those choices, I'd just gently suggest to you that, just because somebody made a different choice about what hill to die on, doesn't necessarily now make them a statist toolbag.

I have a great deal of respect for those who do, like you, or those who are still fighting the IRS.

As things in my life are winding down, and nothing much to look forward to, my hill is now these ever-fucking vaccines.

That is the line that will not be crossed.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Sorry, but calling this "picking your battles" is a cop out. There is zero risk to writing/calling your congressperson and saying "Vote hell no on HR 4980" and/or saying "vote hell yes on Rand Paul's proposal to end the TSA." To [MENTION=3169]Anti Federalist[/MENTION]'s point, if you drive around with made up tags on your car you risk being pulled over and having an encounter with officer friendly that might not go your way. And technically the airport is your property because your tax dollars paid for it. The truly private airfields have no TSA requirement.

Just and correct.

You could make the case that the airlines are ours as well, seeing how many billions we've paid to bail them out over the years.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

I will travel by balloon

 

[TheCount]

Global Entry is a different program. I don't know anything about that, I just have TSA pre-check.

Global Entry is pre check but for customs and immigration.

 

[cjm]

That was a great video. Thanks for posting. +rep.

 

[JohnCifelli1]

Ah, sorry sir. Your last booster was 25 weeks ago. You cannot get on the plane. There's a vax station in terminal C, if you hurry you might be able to get a booster and get back before we close boarding.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Ah, sorry sir. Your last booster was 25 weeks ago. You cannot get on the plane. There's a vax station in terminal C, if you hurry you might be able to get a booster and get back before we close boarding.

 

[devil21]

If I was in a rental car, I would still have what passes for basic rights, including not to be frisked and searched without probable cause.

And yes, you do have to pick your battles.

I choose not to be harassed and arrested and impounded every time I drive off my property.

Do you make it a habit to dismiss things you haven't even tried? As I've said in other threads, I get various flavors of LEOs directly behind me in multiple states and countless jurisdictions. One has stopped me and I made his little piece of paper disappear out of the court system days later (no arrest, no car impoundment, he just tossed the paper through the window and drove off). How? Because they're enforcing color-of-law commercial regulations, not laws. They can't enforce commercial regulations against property they have no legal jurisdiction over. And they know it. And if they tried and took it too far, they're violating one of THE most severe federal statutes in existence. TITLE 18 U.S.C. SECTION 242 - DEPRAVATION OF RIGHTS UNDER COLOR-OF-LAW.

Fwiw, it could probably be argued that even pat downs in airports violate this extreme statute in light of the right to movement/travel, but since the property being used is not yours, the use can be subject to reasonable measures to ensure the security of the property.

Rights are individual, not collective (see my sig...its from the Protocols). What you do or don't do to exercise them is up to you. I just don't think a pat down to use property that isn't mine is some giant overreach. I'm in the physical security measure business (physical measures not big bro junk) so maybe my perspective of reasonable measures to ensure safety of life and personal property is different than others and isn't automatically a violation of rights...

Everyone's points about airline bailouts are valid and I don't have an answer to that. It's a sign of how far society has let things go by NOT exercising individual rights. Use em or they'll be forgotten or ignored eventually, no matter what that exercise may be. I think we can all agree on that, at least.