Guy gets paid 100k when he was supposed to get 1k, gets charged with theft.

[aGameOfThrones]

Bryan police say 25-year-old Cesar Saldivar was supposed to get $992.75 on that payday back in March. Instead, he was paid $99,275.

The after-tax amount deposited in Saldivar's account was $53,221.79, according to a police report.

Investigators say Saldivar withdrew the money from his bank account, and he's refusing to give it back. That's why the 25-year-old is facing criminal charges, even though it was his employer's accounting mistake.

"It's kind of like if you saw money sitting on the register, you know it's not yours. If you don't make attempts to find the owner, then you're committing theft," said Officer Kelley McKethan, Bryan Police Department.

(WTF!!!)

Police arrested Saldivar Sunday and charged him with felony theft. He was released after posting a $10,000 bond.

If he's convicted, Saldivar could spend up to 10 years in jail.

Texas Steel Conversion has not gotten their money back yet.

http://www.kbtx.com/home/editorspic...9K-Payroll-Error-220600781.html?device=tablet


Other site....

A man was extremely happy when he received a huge amount of money from his employer.

However, his joy did not last too long after he found out that the money did not come as a bonus for his hard work, but rather through an accounting error.

Cesar Saldivar, 25, of Bryan, Texas, was arrested and charged with theft after being mistakenly paid 100 times more than he should have been paid, but he did not return the money to the company.

Saldivar was paid a whopping $99,275 instead of the $992.75 that was owed to him. It was all due to an accounting error at the Texas Steel Conversion where he worked, according to a police report.
When they realized their mistake, the company attempted to recover the money from Saldivar, but was unsuccessful.

According to the police report, Saldivar told employees of the company that he felt he had not done anything wrong, and he had no money left. He also said that he needed more time to figure out what to do.

Out of the $99,275, approximately $38,000 was deducted from federal income taxes and about $6,000 for Social Security. The net amount deposited in the account was $53,221.79 according to the report.

Saldivar opened a new bank account and deposited $53,221 of the money he received. He also withdrew $20,000 on that day and another $25,000 four days later, according to the report. Saldivar did not actually steal the money, but when he did not return the money, which was deposited into his account, he was charged with theft.

In Texas, theft of property valued between $20,000 and $100,000 is a third-degree felony. Saldivar was released from the Brazos County Jail on $10,000 bail.

http://www.yourjewishnews.com/2013/08/w7622.html

 

[Tod]

It was pretty lame of him to not give it back, but not nearly as lame as him being charged with theft.

 

[aGameOfThrones]

It was pretty lame of him to not give it back, but not nearly as lame as him being charged with theft.

What about what the government stole? Why isn't it being charged with theft? Right, they have a special permit.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

wait wtf? almost half of it was taxed away?

 

[thoughtomator]

wait wtf? almost half of it was taxed away?

If Woody had applied for a bank license, this would never have happened.

 

[Jackie Moon]

wait wtf? almost half of it was taxed away?

I know right? That's what stood out to me.

I think the guy had to have known it wasn't legit and shouldn't have kept it. He shouldn't be charged with theft though.

The real thief and villain in the story is the federal government for stealing half of someone's paycheck.

 

[asurfaholic]

Meh, I would have returned it as soon as I saw the error...

Did the govt return the other half?

 

[69360]

seems to me like this is a civil matter, not a criminal case.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

This is clearly theft. If one should not be charged with theft when one has committed theft, well then when should one be charged with it?

In what way is it "lame" to charge someone with theft who is committing theft, Tod? Do you not think stealing is criminal, 69360?

Basically, what are you all thinking?

 

[presence]

This is clearly theft.
Basically, what are you all thinking?

 

[Icymudpuppy]

For those of you who have never paid federal income taxes for your employees as an employer, let me explain how it works...

1. You figure the amounts due to your employees and the amounts due to the feds.
2. You pay your employee and give him a slip explaining how much has been deducted by the employer to pay the feds later.
3. Usually once a month for a large business, quarterly for a medium business, or annually for a really small business, you pay the feds their share of the paycheck + additional amounts for unemployment, business taxes, etc. These amounts are due at earliest 30 days after the paycheck given to the employee.

Thus, the feds hadn't gotten anything yet.

This guy was asked to return it and he refused. Did you read the article. When he refused to return the money is when it became theft. Before that, it was just an error.

I would bet that the business hired a new bookkeeper that was accustomed to an accounting program setting where the decimal point for cents is automatically inserted in every number so if I type "1" it will come out as $0.01. But the business has their program set to place two zeros at the end of every typed number so typing "1" will result in "$1.00"

 

[69360]

This is clearly theft. If one should not be charged with theft when one has committed theft, well then when should one be charged with it?

In what way is it "lame" to charge someone with theft who is committing theft, Tod? Do you not think stealing is criminal, 69360?

Basically, what are you all thinking?

Theft is taking another's property without consent. They willing gave him the money. He did not steal it from them. He had gained possession of the money through their voluntary, though mistaken, action. He did not defraud them to gain possession.

Can they file a civil suit for return of the money? Absolutely and they would win. Was a crime committed? I don't think so.

The guy is being stupid and an asshole, but not criminal.

 

[angelatc]

Theft is taking another's property without consent. They willing gave him the money. He did not steal it from them. He had gained possession of the money through their voluntary, though mistaken, action. He did not defraud them to gain possession.

Can they file a civil suit for return of the money? Absolutely and they would win. Was a crime committed? I don't think so.

The guy is being stupid and an asshole, but not criminal.

You might disagree with the law, but it is what it is. You might think that morally it isn't theft, but I'm not even sure how you get there. And in any event the law is pretty clear. In most cases you are not entitled to keep found property until a certain amount of time has passed.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Theft is taking another's property without consent.

Yes, agreed.

I don't know how it could be any clearer that Cesar Saldivar does, in fact, have Texas Steel Conversion's property, and that he does not, in fact have that company's consent.

They willingly gave him the money.

No, they did not. If they had, this would not be happening.

I didn't think I'd need to make an analogy, I thought it was too obvious, but I was wrong. Here you go:

What if, in handing the clerk at the grocery store a 5 dollar bill your ring slips off and into his hand? You ask for it back. He says no. He won't give it back. He never gives it back. He just keeps your ring for the rest of his life. Is he a thief?

Obviously and without a doubt he is a thief! He has committed the crime of theft. Theft is a crime, 69360. I consider it a crime, you consider it a crime, virtually everyone who believes in the concept of crime at all would place theft into the category of crime.

He did not steal it from them.

He is stealing it from them right now! It doesn't matter how the property came to be wrongfully in his possession. It really doesn't. A windstorm could have blown it onto his front yard. But it's not his and so he doesn't get to keep it. And he is intentionally keeping it, knowing it is not his, ignoring requests from its owner to return it. That's criminal. Just because the flood waters sweep the neighbor's Ferrari onto your lawn doesn't mean it is yours now.

 

[Schifference]

What Cesar should have done was take the money and put it someplace & not spend it. He could have even decided to move to an undisclosed location. He keeps the money until xxx time has passed. If he is found before xxx time passes give back the money if not found by then keep it.

 

[Schifference]

What happens when a Corp has employee profit sharing money and then files bankruptcy? Is that theft?

 

[Schifference]

What would happen if Cesar was a private contractor LLC or Corp? He did a job was paid. Then went belly up? Does the steel corp have a criminal charge against the individual or the defunct LLC or Corp?

 

[Acala]

Yes, agreed.

I don't know how it could be any clearer that Cesar Saldivar does, in fact, have Texas Steel Conversion's property, and that he does not, in fact have that company's consent.

No, they did not. If they had, this would not be happening.

I didn't think I'd need to make an analogy, I thought it was too obvious, but I was wrong. Here you go:

What if, in handing the clerk at the grocery store a 5 dollar bill your ring slips off and into his hand? You ask for it back. He says no. He won't give it back. He never gives it back. He just keeps your ring for the rest of his life. Is he a thief?

Obviously and without a doubt he is a thief! He has committed the crime of theft. Theft is a crime, 69360. I consider it a crime, you consider it a crime, virtually everyone who believes in the concept of crime at all would place theft into the category of crime.

He is stealing it from them right now! It doesn't matter how the property came to be wrongfully in his possession. It really doesn't. A windstorm could have blown it onto his front yard. But it's not his and so he doesn't get to keep it. And he is intentionally keeping it, knowing it is not his, ignoring requests from its owner to return it. That's criminal. Just because the flood waters sweep the neighbor's Ferrari onto your lawn doesn't mean it is yours now.

Correct.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

What Cesar should have done was take the money and put it someplace & not spend it. He could have even decided to move to an undisclosed location. He keeps the money until xxx time has passed. If he is found before xxx time passes give back the money if not found by then keep it.

Shot-term gain, long-term destruction. This is your advice?

Destroy your character, make yourself into a worthless human being whom no one can respect, whom no one wants to deal with, whom you yourself do not respect, in order to get $50,000? Is that all your character is worth? You gonna live on that 50 grand the rest of your life?

 

[helmuth_hubener]

What happens when a Corp has employee profit sharing money and then files bankruptcy? Is that theft?

Bankruptcy is always highly questionable, since it means not paying people that you promised to pay. Who those creditors are -- employees with a profit-sharing plan, vendors, investors -- doesn't really affect the essential problem.