Governor Set To Remove Confederate Flag

Our Tom Davis weighs in:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...to-battle-establishment-push-to-rip-down-fla/

Senator Tom Davis, of Beaufort, says that “debate on the Confederate Battle Flag in the Senate it would likely take a minimum of two weeks, and perhaps longer,” and, considering Davis’ last cause (defeating a gas-tax increase), may actually take longer given the State Senate’s desire to give every member his or her own say. “This isn’t an issue where the State Senate will cut off debate in any sort of expedited manner,” says Davis. “There will be every effort made to ensure that senators will have every opportunity to say everything they want to say.”

I’ve talked to many a legislator regarding “the flag,” and they are saying 99% of the emails, snail mail, or phone calls they are getting, come from people who are not South Carolinians. They do not have a say in this matter. Much like what actually spurred on the Civil War, these people are coming in from a national level and telling South Carolina how to run its government—and, as it did then, it’s working.
 
So you don't want to discuss the Confederacy and are only interested in questioning why I care. Again feel free to take part in the discussion.

I lurked and posted during the Ron Paul campaign because I was/am a big supporter of his. I'm entitled to an opinion on the matter of the Confederacy and why people still seek to defend it. As someone who loves history I happen to take particular interest in this discussion.

Any input?


The issue is not about supporting the Confederacy...which no longer exists. It's about the right of freedom of expression with regard to displaying a flag. Do you live in the south?
 
Rand Paul joins the weak-kneed crowd since he is running for President.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/06/22/rand-paul-is-out-of-pocket/

"I think the flag is inescapably a symbol of human bondage and slavery," Paul said in a Tuesday morning radio interview with told host Jeff Kuhner on WKRO. "And particularly when people use it obviously for murder and to justify hatred so vicious that you would kill somebody, I think that that symbolism needs to end, and I think South Carolina is doing the right thing...

“Obviously it’s a decision for South Carolina to make, but if I were in South Carolina, that’s what I would vote to do, and that’s what I would recommend to anyone who asked me my opinion," he added. "...There have been people who used it for Southern pride and heritage and all of that, but really to I think to every African-American in the country it’s a symbolism of slavery to them and now it’s a symbol of murder for this young man and so I think it’s…time to put it in a museum.”
 
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Rand Paul joins the weak-kneed crowd since he is running for President.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/06/22/rand-paul-is-out-of-pocket/

Update, 9:30 a.m. Tuesday: We have comment.

"I think the flag is inescapably a symbol of human bondage and slavery," Paul said in a Tuesday morning radio interview with told host Jeff Kuhner on WKRO. "And particularly when people use it obviously for murder and to justify hatred so vicious that you would kill somebody, I think that that symbolism needs to end, and I think South Carolina is doing the right thing...

“Obviously it’s a decision for South Carolina to make, but if I were in South Carolina, that’s what I would vote to do, and that’s what I would recommend to anyone who asked me my opinion," he added. "...There have been people who used it for Southern pride and heritage and all of that, but really to I think to every African-American in the country it’s a symbolism of slavery to them and now it’s a symbol of murder for this young man and so I think it’s…time to put it in a museum.”
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The issue is not about supporting the Confederacy...which no longer exists. It's about the right of freedom of expression with regard to displaying a flag. Do you live in the south?

I don't believe I said that they didn't have the freedom to fly the flag. I merely said it should be taken down. I didn't say it should be forced.
 
I don't believe I said that they didn't have the freedom to fly the flag. I merely said it should be taken down. I didn't say it should be forced.

Yet sentiments like "should" quickly turn into "must" under mob rule and pretty soon the government ends up with yet more power to legislate free thought which some don't mind until it's their free thought that is being restricted.

 
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I don't believe I said that they didn't have the freedom to fly the flag. I merely said it should be taken down. I didn't say it should be forced.

Why do you feel you have a say in it? Are people from S.C. telling your State what flags you should fly?
 
A Union General once asked a captured Confederate Private, "Why are you fighting?"

He replied, "Because you are here."
 
A Union General once asked a captured Confederate Private, "Why are you fighting?"

He replied, "Because you are here."

Wow, that response sounds very much like that of insurgents fighting US/UK Union forces that occupied Iraq. Difference being that defeating current insurgents has been far more difficult.

Meeting Resistance: New Doc Follows Iraqis Fighting U.S. Occupation of Their Country
AMY GOODMAN: What would you do if your country was invaded? Meeting Resistance is a new documentary on the Iraq war from a perspective few in the West have dared to adopt. It turns the spotlight on Iraqi men and women who choose to resist the military occupation of their country. The film takes us back to the first year of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq and the beginnings of the insurgency in Iraq. This is how a young cleric interviewed in the film explains the roots of the insurgency.
IRAQI CLERIC: [translated] Suppose Iraq invaded America, and an Iraqi soldier was on a tank passing through an American street, waving his gun at the people, threatening them, raiding and trashing houses, would you accept that? This is why no Iraqi can accept the occupation. Don’t be surprised by their reactions. Their attitudes are normal.




Now a question, what was stance of former confederate states during US invasion/occupation of Iraq under false pretences (end result of which was election of Barack Hussein Obama)?

Seems like there are lot of hypocritical/self-serving idelogical positions to go around in recent US political history. Many parties in the "two-party system" of late have been morally wrong.
 
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Neocon Max Boot Wants It All Gone. He believes the North didn't do the job properly the first time.

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/2015/06/22/let-the-confederate-flag-come-down/

As important as the success that white supremacists had in inflicting violence was their success in gaining control of the narrative. Before long, much of the American population, and not only in the South, came to believe the myths of the Confederacy: That the South had superior culture and morals, that its manhood had fought and died for a glorious Lost Cause, and that the South was subsequently raped by corrupt and rapacious Northern “carpetbaggers” and their homegrown collaborators known as “scalawags.”

Recent historical research has shown that none of this was true: that newly installed Republican officeholders were no more corrupt than the secessionists they replaced, and many of them were idealistic and well-intentioned. And needless to say, the Southern cause was not at all glorious — the Confederate armies may have fought bravely and well, but they fought to preserve a way of life founded upon enslaving their fellow human beings.

The Confederate flag has quite rightly come under fire again after the appalling massacre carried out by a white supremacist in Charleston, South Carolina, who murdered nine church goers because they were black. It has become the politically correct stance to assert that the Confederate flag that continues to fly over the grounds of the South Carolina statehouse needs to come down. But just because a position is politically correct doesn’t mean it’s wrong. In this case, it’s right. Not only should the Confederate flag come down, but I believe it’s also time for Southern states to change place names in honor of traitors such as Jefferson Davis.

I know, I know: it’s a slippery slope that could eventually result in taking slaveholders such as George Washington off our currency or even renaming our national capital. But Washington, in spite of being a slaveholder, also helped to create this country as a bastion of freedom. The good he did far outweighed his deplorable participation in the slave-owning customs of his time and place. I can think of no similar redeeming virtues that can be claimed for the likes of Jefferson Davis who helped to plunge this country into a civil war that left as many as 800,000 dead in a fruitless quest to ensure that slavery would remain legal.

I believe it is a calumny to assert that the South of today is unchanged from the 1860s or 1960s. But the South needs to complete its transformation by finally jettisoning the remaining symbols of its dark past.

106-max-boot-2-940.png
 
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Governor can't remove flag, needs the legislature to approve it. Hope they tell Haley and Graham to pound sand.
 
Yet sentiments like "should" quickly turn into "must" under mob rule and pretty soon the government ends up with yet more power to legislate free thought which some don't mind until it's their free thought that is being restricted.



God Forbid that the government has the power to take down a flag that the government itself put up
 
It's a full court press. Mike Florio?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...d-states-should-not-be-remembered-with-honor/

The fact that the symbol of the failed rebellion against the United States is still embraced in South Carolina and elsewhere sends the subtle yet distinct message that the rebellion wasn’t shameful, but honorable. Which sends the subtle yet distinct message that the ultimate reason for the rebellion — whether the abomination of slavery should continue — was also not shameful, but honorable.

Did you get that? Rebellion is shameful. Now get back to your cubicles and work harder.
 
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God Forbid that the government has the power to take down a flag that the government itself put up

And I'm assuming there was an amendment somewhere to put it up written by a representative of the people. Could have been at the behest of a Civil War historical group but I highly doubt the government put it up for no reason. I guess next Civil War re-enactments will be banned.
 
There can be no coexistence with these sort of people. Stock up accordingly. We simply want to be left alone, but they refuse to heed to our demands. And this refusal to let us be transcends the Civil War.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-e-price/yes-youre-a-racist----and-a-traitor_b_7640654.html

While I was out jogging this morning, I passed a neighbor's house that I have passed every day for almost three years. Usually I stroll right on by without giving it a second thought. Today, though... today was different. I stopped in my tracks and blankly stared until a car honked at me to move out of the way.

This house flies a Confederate flag.

I don't live in South Carolina or even Maryland. I live in a small town in Central Pennsylvania, 50 miles north of Gettysburg -- the site of the most famous victory of the Civil War. Yet even here, a few hundred feet from my front door flies the unambiguous symbol of hatred, racism and treason.

Normally, this would elicit some fleeting contempt and I would go about my day. But with the slayings in Charleston very much on my mind, I found myself getting angry... very angry.

Angry at this person, this "neighbor" of mine. Angry at the culture that permits such blatant hatred. Angry at the media who provide cover for the ignorant. Angry at the teachers who perpetuate historical falsehoods. Angry at myself for not being angry before.
Remember that time South Carolina attacked Fort Sumter? That's the literal definition of treason. And I quote Article III, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort." Not exactly abstract legalese that requires a ton of parsing.

The states that seceded to become the Confederacy were actively engaged in open war against the United States government. A war they started because of the election of a man they deemed "hostile to slavery." A war they fought to maintain the "heaven ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race." A war they lost.


But it was a war based on a fundamental social conflict that is still not resolved and simmers under the zeitgeist, rearing its ugly head every so often to remind us it hasn't gone anywhere. It was not resolved in 1865, not in 1965, and sadly, not in 2015.

The "heritage" of the Confederacy, the enduring belief in Lost Cause romanticism, the invention and adoption of revisionist "traditions" and culture, has become society's Old Faithful: a cultural geyser that periodically lets off steam; a spectacle at which we ogle and wax poetic about the fragility of our condition. But one day it'll explode and it'll be a catastrophe from which we might not recover.

The tragedy of America is that this is all self-inflicted. This trajectory to self-destruction doesn't have to be the outcome. As Jon Stewart so eloquently pointed out, "Al Qaeda... ISIS... they're not shit on the damage we can apparently do to ourselves on a regular basis."

The troglodyte that killed those people in South Carolina wanted to fire the opening shots in a new race war. He is a Confederate in every sense of the word. He is a white supremacist. He is a terrorist. He is a traitor.

The worst part is that he is not some aberration. Oh, we want to comfort and assure ourselves that he is, that he has some mental issue, or that he's evil, or some other easy excuse that absolves us all of responsibility.

His actions were heinous, but he is the product of a media environment and culture that protects the ignorant and glorifies division. This is the "heritage" celebrated by those who fly the Confederate flag. By those like my neighbor.

And what about my neighbor? In a perfect world, I would ring his doorbell and have a reasonable discussion with him about how what he's doing is offensive and ahistoric and I'd love to correct his understanding of the entire mess. But the sad fact is, he's not alone, either.

In my time here I've seen scores of Confederate bumper stickers, license plates, and even other flags. Neo-Confederate revisionism is everywhere. It's not confined to "dumb rednecks" or red-state voters or Nascar fans or any other easy stereotype we use to deceive ourselves and dismiss painful realities. It's not even confined to older generations. The killer in South Carolina is 21. He's a Millennial. He's one of us.

And every day that we don't react to that information, every day we don't internalize this conflict, every day we tell ourselves nothing is wrong, every day we claim we can't be racist because we have black friends, every day we share some viral cat video instead of watch the news, every day we don't knock on our neighbor's door... is another day nothing will change.
 
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It's a full court press. Mike Florio?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...d-states-should-not-be-remembered-with-honor/



Did you get that? Rebellion is shameful. Now get back to your cubicles and work harder.
There is nothing wrong with what Florio said. He said "the rebellion" is shameful, not "rebellion is shameful". Rebellion is fine for the correct reasons. When a state or region rebels over the fear that slavery will be eventually extinguished by the incoming President then it can certainly be perceived as shameful.
 
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