Government, religion, and "secular" vs. "religious"

[Snowball]

On what do you base this claim?

"Supremacy Clause"

Article VI

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

 

[Invisible Man]

The Constitution is the law of the land.

On what do you base this claim?

"Supremacy Clause"

Article VI

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

Hopefully, I don't need to explain the problem with your reasoning here.

 

[PAF]

Louisiana Constitution

Article I: Declaration of Rights

Section 8. No law shall be enacted respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.​

https://law.justia.com/constitution/louisiana/Article1.html



U.S. Constitution Bill of Rights

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/first_amendment



Referencing the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, Jefferson writes:

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church and State."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

​

 

[Anti Federalist]

I don't think posting the ten commandments, in and of itself, rises to the level of "establishing" a state religion.

 

[Anti Federalist]

 

[Invisible Man]

I don't think posting the ten commandments, in and of itself, rises to the level of "establishing" a state religion.

As I see it, all education is inherently religious. All government involvement in education rises to the level of establishing religion.

But I would concede that displaying the 10 Commandments is not in any way more religious than everything the same schools already do without displaying the 10 Commandments. Every poster they display about self esteem, bullying, patriotism, diversity, going to college, eating healthy, exercising, as well as all of the academic material for every class they teach (yes, even math), is just as religious as the 10 Commandments.

 

[redmod79]

I don't think posting the ten commandments, in and of itself, rises to the level of "establishing" a state religion.

It's the very first step, however. It's the camel's nose under the tent. Do you trust the politicians enacting and supporting these laws currently being passed? When has government ever actually improved anything? Everything the government touches turns to ...? And remember, most of these people are either RC or buddies with them. And we all know the track record of the RCC when it comes to religious liberty. This is only the beginning, and it's going to get worse. Much, much worse. And don't get me wrong, the left is doing the same thing, just a different flavor. And they are buddies with the RCC, too.

 

[PAF]

I don't think posting the ten commandments, in and of itself, rises to the level of "establishing" a state religion.

Post #31:

Reverend Jeff Sims

“By favoring one version of the Ten Commandments and mandating that it be posted in public schools, the government is intruding on deeply personal matters of religion.

 

[PAF]

It's the very first step, however. It's the camel's nose under the tent. Do you trust the politicians enacting and supporting these laws currently being passed? When has government ever actually improved anything? Everything the government touches turns to ...? And remember, most of these people are either RC or buddies with them. And we all know the track record of the RCC when it comes to religious liberty. This is only the beginning, and it's going to get worse. Much, much worse. And don't get me wrong, the left is doing the same thing, just a different flavor. And they are buddies with the RCC, too.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to redmod79 again."


They forget how they cheered the Covid VAX when "republicans" first promoted it, quickly forgetting that Government Has No Business In Healthcare. Now it's Government Has No Business In Religion, and they still haven't learned.

 

[Sonny Tufts]

all of the academic material for every class they teach (yes, even math), is just as religious as the 10 Commandments.

What's the religious content in the binomial theorem, the proof that there is no largest prime, or the proof that the square root of 2 is not rational?

 

[Invisible Man]

Post #31:

Reverend Jeff Sims

“By favoring one version of the Ten Commandments and mandating that it be posted in public schools, the government is intruding on deeply personal matters of religion.

Sims is right about that. But this point always needs to be balanced by the counterpoint that by favoring secular education, or the pretense of secular education, the government is just as egregiously (perhaps even more egregiously) intruding on deeply personal matters of religion.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Post #31:

I disagree with Rev. Jeff Sims.

The commandments are a part of western canon and history going back centuries.

The were routinely placed in public buildings all across America for hundreds of years.

And we were a better, more free, more prosperous and more healthy nation, because of that, and a thousand other little "minor details" like that, than we are now.

 

[Invisible Man]

What's the religious content in the binomial theorem, the proof that there is no largest prime, or the proof that the square root of 2 is not rational?

The undergirding assumption that these immaterial entities have objective truth value is inherently religious, and ultimately finds its support in the Triune God of the Bible.

 

[Anti Federalist]

It's the very first step, however. It's the camel's nose under the tent. Do you trust the politicians enacting and supporting these laws currently being passed? When has government ever actually improved anything? Everything the government touches turns to ...? And remember, most of these people are either RC or buddies with them. And we all know the track record of the RCC when it comes to religious liberty. This is only the beginning, and it's going to get worse. Much, much worse. And don't get me wrong, the left is doing the same thing, just a different flavor. And they are buddies with the RCC, too.

No, I do not, which is why I think mandatory government education should be abolished.

 

[PAF]

No, I do not, which is why I think mandatory government education should be abolished.

But in the meantime, you are advocating that politicians and governments have the right to intrude/dictate into the religious freedom of individuals lives.

 

[PAF]

It's the very first step, however. It's the camel's nose under the tent. Do you trust the politicians enacting and supporting these laws currently being passed? When has government ever actually improved anything? Everything the government touches turns to ...? And remember, most of these people are either RC or buddies with them. And we all know the track record of the RCC when it comes to religious liberty. This is only the beginning, and it's going to get worse. Much, much worse. And don't get me wrong, the left is doing the same thing, just a different flavor. And they are buddies with the RCC, too.

They forget how they cheered the Covid VAX when "republicans" first promoted it, quickly forgetting that Government Has No Business In Healthcare. Now it's Government Has No Business In Religion, and they still haven't learned.

//

 

[redmod79]

This is hegelian dialectic at its finest. There are posters in this thread who are rightfully against what the left is espousing, but then they unfortunately default to supporting its apparent opposition. Satan has his hands in both cookie jars (left and right). The left grows in its extremism, and in response the right grows in its extremism. And it is going back and forth and will continue until one side has enough support to force its evil edicts on the entire population. The left is gaining traction for its climate sundays https://www.climatesunday.org/ and the right is gaining traction for its project 2025 https://www.project2025.org/. The man of sin is fine with either.

 

[Sonny Tufts]

The undergirding assumptions that these immaterial entities have objective truth value is inherently religious, and ultimately finds its support in the Triune God of the Bible.

Euclid and the other ancients who came up with the latter two examples (as well as many others) did just fine without the biblical deity.

I'm reminded of the anecdote about the French physicist Pierre-Simon Laplace, who presented his book on celestial mechanics to Napoleon. At their meeting Napoleon asked Laplace why there was no mention of God in the work, to which Laplace replied, "I had no need of that hypothesis."

 

[Anti Federalist]

But in the meantime, you are advocating that politicians and governments have the right to intrude/dictate into the religious freedom of individuals lives.

I don't find it to be dictating, intrusive or extremist.

Look on the bright side, maybe the upset people will start removing their kids from the government school system.

Why should you be paying for them anyway?

 

[PAF]

I don't find it to be dictating, intrusive or extremist.

Look on the bright side, maybe the upset people will start removing their kids from the government school system.

Why should you be paying for them anyway?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-as-dictator&p=7237542&viewfull=1#post7237542