Goldwater vs Reagan; and how will Dr. Paul be remembered ?

[J_White]

Can someone tell me about the policies supported by Barry Goldwater, which led him to get quite a large number of followers and to his Presidential bid ? Was he too like Dr. Paul ?
It seems he led the resurgence of Conservatism in GOP, but then lost to Johnson.
If he somehow won the Presidency, would he have been better than Reagan ?

On the other hand now Reagan is touted as the latest greatest Republican icon and most try to associate themselves with him. Or was that because he was President, even though later he backtracked from his campaign promises and increased debt etc ?
Is there any truth to the info that his policies changed much after the attempt on his life ?

I was wondering how Dr.Paul would be remembered in future - probably depends on whether he wins or loses.

 

[goldwater's ghost]

you can add in pat buchhanan as a worst case scenario.

if paul wins = reagan

if paul doesnt win but GOP transforms over the next two decades into the party of liberty = goldwater

if paul doesnt win and the movement fades once he leaves politics = buchanan

 

[J_White]

i think u might be right.

you can add in pat buchhanan as a worst case scenario.

if paul wins = reagan

if paul doesnt win but GOP transforms over the next two decades into the party of liberty = goldwater

if paul doesnt win and the movement fades once he leaves politics = buchanan

 

[Esoteric]

you can add in pat buchhanan as a worst case scenario.

if paul wins = reagan

if paul doesnt win but GOP transforms over the next two decades into the party of liberty = goldwater

if paul doesnt win and the movement fades once he leaves politics = buchanan

I don't see the buchanan situation happening. Not with Rand around.

 

[Drivingrain]

I understand why you brought Buchanan into this, but it could just as well be Nadar or Perot or anyone else whose support as an individual was a flash-in-the-pan from a presidential politics perspective. None of those examples brought about a set of ideas as complete as what Ron Paul is espousing.

The ideas that encompass Paul's campagin are far more conducive to having a lasting legacy. This campaign is not abot Ron Paul. None of us are loyal to him. We're loyal to the ideas related to liberty and how government should be setup to protect that liberty and not too much else. Paul is just the current ambassador of those ideas.

 

[tbone717]

The ideas that encompass Paul's campagin are far more conducive to having a lasting legacy. This campaign is not abot Ron Paul. None of us are loyal to him. We're loyal to the ideas related to liberty and how government should be setup to protect that liberty and not too much else. Paul is just the current ambassador of those ideas.

+1 Rep. Well stated.

I will say that we do need to be cautious as we move forward to turning Paul into some sort of idol that all others need to be compared to. We cannot look at others and say "oh well he disagreed with Paul on this nuance" or "he disagreed with Paul on the method to accomplish this goal". We need to remember that this is about limited government, individual liberty and adherence to the Constitution. There are many out there who are our allies, so we cannot label them as "unfit" simply because we may differ slightly on one point or another. If that occurs, then Paul becomes like Buchanan, rather than like Goldwater.

 

[Muwahid]

Whether the GOP likes it or not, the world will not forget the Ron Paul Revolution, win or lose it's left its mark on American politics.

 

[J_White]

i agree we are in not for Paul but for the message. and i think GOP , or at least some people in it, would come to the stark realization that they cannot win this without Paul, his ideas and his supporters. But I wonder whether that would come in time for it to make some change in this cycle.

 

[splanky]

goldwater's ghost put it best, but Paul will be remembered as 'the last of the founding fathers', if you will. He's ushering in the idea that all of the old resistance to tyranny has been ineffective and that demanding our Constitutional rights is the line in the sand that, if not now defended, will destroy us. If he doesn't win he'll eventually be considered a magnificent prophet. If he wins, it's a whole new ball game.

 

[djruden]

If you want to know more about Goldwater I recommend a book by his son called: Pure Goldwater
It's mostly excerpts from Barry Goldwaters journal throughout his military and political career as well as some other articles and speeches by and about him. Really interesting and good stuff.

 

[Moo2400]

This campaign is not abot Ron Paul. None of us are loyal to him. We're loyal to the ideas related to liberty and how government should be setup to protect that liberty and not too much else. Paul is just the current ambassador of those ideas.

If that's the case, then why are so many planning to write Ron Paul in if he does win the nomination rather than voting for a third party that advances many of the ideas that Ron Paul does?

 

[tbone717]

If that's the case, then why are so many planning to write Ron Paul in if he does win the nomination rather than voting for a third party that advances many of the ideas that Ron Paul does?

Either way, it is a protest vote. Though I disagree with the statement that a third party "advances" ideas. The LP and CP may embrace those ideas, but they do nothing to advance them.

 

[ILUVRP]

one of Barry Goldwater's ( to me ) best saying.

"With the world being what it is today that we must maintain Armed Forces of sufficient strenth to protect our freedoms ; not to go out to protect someone else , but to protect our freedoms "

Barry Goldwater

 

[dancjm]

Those comparisons are not even close. The world has not seen anyone like Ron Paul in more than a Century.

Ron Paul will be remembered as the Re-Founding Father. Win or Lose in November, the fuse has been lit, there is not stopping it, a Liberty bomb is about to blow.

Those people in the past who have truly changed history have understood that their role is not just to lead, but to teach.

I am personally not a religious person, and I know plenty would scorn me for this comparison. But the closest historical figure in terms of message and method that I can think of is Jesus.

I feel privileged to be a witness to this tbh.

 

[J_White]

random fact, Johnson was also pro war and did not serve in the military.
but i suppose there would be some people who served, yet are pro war. McCain comes to mind.

 

[Drivingrain]

If that's the case, then why are so many planning to write Ron Paul in if he does win the nomination rather than voting for a third party that advances many of the ideas that Ron Paul does?

If the choice is Paul or Johnson, I lean to Johnson on ideas because of abortion. But I admit I'd still vote for Paul because of the not-so-good-reason that "everyone else is doing it". Clearly, this campaign is Paul's swan-song, he has the $ & support, and if he pulls more than 10% of the vote it will better enable people like Johnson or Rand to win next time and/or go a long way to build a Constitutionalist foundation that goes beyond Presidential politics and into local/state gov't too.

 

[tbone717]

If the choice is Paul or Johnson, I lean to Johnson on ideas because of abortion. But I admit I'd still vote for Paul because of the not-so-good-reason that "everyone else is doing it". Clearly, this campaign is Paul's swan-song, he has the $ & support, and if he pulls more than 10% of the vote it will better enable people like Johnson or Rand to win next time and/or go a long way to build a Constitutionalist foundation that goes beyond Presidential politics and into local/state gov't too.

In most states, unless the candidate has "write-in status" any write in votes essentially go into an "other" pile. There is a reason for this actually. In every election there are a good number of "nonsense" write in votes for pretty much every race on the ballot. A friend of mine is in charge of elections for the county and he tells me that they get votes for Mickey Mouse, Howard Stern, Ozzy Osbourne, etc nearly every single time. So if there is a real write-in campaign in action, the state needs to be aware of it so that they can tally the votes properly.

 

[Drivingrain]

In most states, unless the candidate has "write-in status" any write in votes essentially go into an "other" pile. There is a reason for this actually. In every election there are a good number of "nonsense" write in votes for pretty much every race on the ballot. A friend of mine is in charge of elections for the county and he tells me that they get votes for Mickey Mouse, Howard Stern, Ozzy Osbourne, etc nearly every single time. So if there is a real write-in campaign in action, the state needs to be aware of it so that they can tally the votes properly.

Got it, thanks. So that statement I made that you bolded requires revision. It probably should start with something like, "If it's apples-to-apples in terms of organization & the ability to promote the movement, then I admit I'd still vote for Paul..."

 

[tbone717]

Got it, thanks. So that statement I made that you bolded requires revision. It probably should start with something like, "If it's apples-to-apples in terms of organization & the ability to promote the movement, then I admit I'd still vote for Paul..."

Correct. But at the end of the day it is nothing more than a protest vote. It serves little purpose other than sending a message to your state GOP that the nominated candidate was not acceptable. Depending on the state that you live in, this may or may not have any impact whatsoever.

 

[Jamesiv1]

I am personally not a religious person, and I know plenty would scorn me for this comparison. But the closest historical figure in terms of message and method that I can think of is Jesus.

I agree.

Jesus was a rebel with a cause. He taught and inspired the Jewish commoners against the elite of his day - i.e. the Pharisees and Sadducees.

1. Forget the 600+ laws and keep instead the 10 that were written in stone.
2. Forget the pomp and circumstance and pray instead like this: "Our Father, who art in Heaven..."
3. Give unto Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar (coins that bear his likeness) but you can forget about the temple taxes.

Sound familiar?