Gold: What is the end game?

[ronpaulfollower999]

Price of a gallon of gas in 1964 was $0.30, or three silver dimes. Today, those same three silver dimes would get you $7.42, or over two gallons of gas (based off AAA average of $3.42 a gallon).

 

[ronpaulfollower999]

So where can gold be bought by the coin? I dont have thousands to dump into gold right now.

A one ounce gold coin can cost up to $1,900. Us poor folks normally go for silver-

Start off easy with American Silver Eagles (ASE). http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/category/467/american-silver-eagles-uncirculated.aspx

OR

90% "Junk Silver" Coins- http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/category/407/90-percent-silver-coins.aspx

Dimes, quarters, and half dollars minted in 1964 and before contain 90% silver. Best way to tell is by looking at the side. If you look at your typical quarter or dime you'll notice half of it looks red. That red is copper and there is no silver. 1964 and before coins won't have that, they'll be completely silver.

This site is a great tool to use so you don't have to remember all the dates (after you collect for a few months, it'll come more naturally). It also gives the amount of ounces that each silver coin has. Also, there is a great tool on that site that tells you how many ounces of silver is in each "junk silver" coin, and what it is worth in dollars based off the current price of silver. http://www.coinflation.com/coins/silver_coin_calculator.html

 

[cubical]

So where can gold be bought by the coin? I dont have thousands to dump into gold right now.

Go to your local coin shop and get a 1/2 or 1/4th ounce coin.

 

[Zippyjuan]

I saw an ad for an Australian Kangaroo for only about $80 in the Sunday paper.

Not a good deal though- that was for a half GRAM coin which would make it about $4,000 an ounce. 28 grams to the ounce- it is 0.016 troy ounces. (And I see you can get them from the Australian mint for about $56 http://www.coinnews.net/2010/06/10/2010-australia-mini-roo-0-5-gram-gold-coin-on-sale/ ) Pretty hefty markup. Not listed for sale currently at their site, but the Perth Mint also produces a 1 kilo gold coin- that would be over two pounds! Cash discount price on it is listed as $57,000 (saving $2,000 US). http://www.providentmetals.com/2013-1-kilo-australian-gold-kangaroo-coin-perth-mint.html 32 ounces of .9999 (yes, four nines!) pure gold.

 

[Bossobass]

Most people I know are just too hung up in valuation of gold in USD.

Imagine you had a great grandfather who lived in the south and had $1 million. In scenario A he planned to hold that money and pass it down to his heirs. In scenario B he traded the money for gold, also planning to hand it down to his heirs.

Imagine then that you receive that inheritance. In scenario A, the money was confederate dollars, which means you would inherit nothing. In scenario B, the gold was gold and your inheritance would be worth $90 million.

That's a simple case for buying and holding gold vs whatever piece of paper happens to be the current popular 'legal tender'.

During your great grandfather's and grandfather's lives, the gold would have remained a relatively static store of value.

Now, imagine your father sold the gold, then bought it back and repeated that exercise a half dozen times over the past 30 years. That gold stash could easily have grown a half billion worth of the current form of USD, in 1 generation. That's because, like every paper certificate before it, the USD is on its last legs and that's reflected in how many of them it takes to buy your gold, which is on its same legs it had 5,000 years ago.

For those who have eternal faith in the USD and want to use theirs to turn it into more USD for purchases of goods or services... don't buy gold, buy Facebook stock and cross your fingers. For those like your fictional great grandfather, no discussion is necessary.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Depends on when he bought and sold his gold. If he had $1 million in gold in 1980 and sold it then and bought it back in 2001 he would have $300,000 left.

If he had $1 million and sold in in 1850 and bought again in 1919 (70 years later), he still had $1 million (minus his transaction costs). http://www.nma.org/pdf/gold/his_gold_prices.pdf If he waited until 1931 (80 years later) to re-buy, he would have $900,000- losing ten percent in the nominal price. If there was any price inflation in those 80 years, his purchasing power of that once $1 million in gold would be less. But we should remember that until really 1972 there wasn't a free market price of gold- the US Government said how many dollars it would take to buy an ounce of gold.

 

[Seraphim]

End game:

Force a new monetary order.

 

[ZzzImAsleep]

Here is what I am confused about based on what some of you are saying. The dollar is going to crash and people will turn to gold, but most people don't have gold, if you don't count jewelry, so how in the world are you supposed to walk into a grocery store during a period of hyper-inflation and hand them a gold coin? There seems to be a disconnect between the idea of "Gold will go up/retain value" and making that work in a day to day environment.

 

[oyarde]

Here is what I am confused about based on what some of you are saying. The dollar is going to crash and people will turn to gold, but most people don't have gold, if you don't count jewelry, so how in the world are you supposed to walk into a grocery store during a period of hyper-inflation and hand them a gold coin? There seems to be a disconnect between the idea of "Gold will go up/retain value" and making that work in a day to day environment.

No , you will not use gold @ the grocery , I imagine, I also , doubt there will be much of anything @ the store ,for awhile , just my speculation.

 

[jkr]

 

[ZzzImAsleep]

No , you will not use gold @ the grocery , I imagine, I also , doubt there will be much of anything @ the store ,for awhile , just my speculation.

Right, but people on here are saying that they are holding gold and silver to use to buy undervalued assets. If there is no food on the shelves, and no store will have a way of taking gold or silver coins then why would anyone take gold and silver as forms of payment for properties when they can't turn around and use it themselves? This is why I feel I haven't gotten a real answer on this subject yet: What is the end game for gold? It is not enough to say "just buy it".

 

[Steven Douglas]

Right, but people on here are saying that they are holding gold and silver to use to buy undervalued assets.

Not me. That has NOTHING to do with why I am holding both. One of the main reasons I am holding both is to have possession of a known, proven currency at a time when there is some combination of a) little to no currency at all, and/or b) no other currency that anyone values.

If there is no food on the shelves, and no store will have a way of taking gold or silver coins then why would anyone take gold and silver as forms of payment for properties when they can't turn around and use it themselves?

That is a different issue altogether, and while it can be argued against (even in the worst times of hyperinflation in the Weimar Republic, things of Real Exchange Value were traded for food), I accept the scenario of absolute shortages and mass starvation for the sake of discussion.

This goes back to the ad nauseam, "Yeah, can you eat your gold and silver? While you're busy stacking stacking gold and silver, I'll be busy eating!" The typical idiot like this, with his either/or mindset, does not consider that it is possible--and even highly desirable and wise--to store both, and that many gold and silver stackers are also preppers.

This is why I feel I haven't gotten a real answer on this subject yet: What is the end game for gold? It is not enough to say "just buy it".

Now I'm not sure what you mean by "end game". Could you be more specific? Does it really mean "interim", as in, death-throes of the hyperinflated fiat currency as it comes to an end? Or does it mean end game, as in, AFTER the fiat currency has already died a horrible death, and is now like a Continental? No matter how bad it gets, nothing, including mass shortages of food, lasts forever. And while some things could get so bad that not even gold can get you the food you-should-have-stored, there has never been a time where the value of gold and silver went permanently into the toilet.

 

[idiom]

Well the U.S. Sanctions are forcing Iran to sell Oil for Gold. So right now Gold is flowing into Iran like crazy.

 

[ZzzImAsleep]

Now I'm not sure what you mean by "end game". Could you be more specific? Does it really mean "interim", as in, death-throes of the hyperinflated fiat currency as it comes to an end? Or does it mean end game, as in, AFTER the fiat currency has already died a horrible death, and is now like a Continental? No matter how bad it gets, nothing, including mass shortages of food, lasts forever. And while some things could get so bad that not even gold can get you the food you-should-have-stored, there has never been a time where the value of gold and silver went permanently into the toilet.

What I mean by end game is literally the end result of buying and storing gold. Because right now buying and storing huge amounts of gold seems as crazy as buying a car when you live somewhere with no roads. People exclaim that they are preparing for an economic collapse, with whatever that entails, (hyper-inflation, food shortages, etc) by buying gold. But currently there is no real system in place to accept gold as a form of exchange in a day to day environment, and more than likely even if the dollar collapses there will be a new paper (or maybe completely digital) currency that takes it place. So buying gold as a store of value seems unlikely to actually result in a gain for the person doing it.

To your point on storing food and non-perishables, I can see the end result there. You store food now and upkeep it in the long run in case there is ever a shortage.

 

[Steven Douglas]

So buying gold as a store of value seems unlikely to actually result in a gain for the person doing it.

It's not supposed to result in a gain (even though it can). It's supposed to hedge against a deliberately inflicted exchange-value-of-currency-loss. And the "store of value" component is a separate issue from the medium of exchange mechanism convenience for day to day trade. Savings in PM's is always from budget surpluses, not day to day expenses. Obviously, it is not efficient to exchange currency for gold for day to day needs you have now.

What I mean by end game is literally the end result of buying and storing gold. Because right now buying and storing huge amounts of gold seems as crazy as buying a car when you live somewhere with no roads.

It is crazy, if you're at a point where you have no surplus, but still wanted to prepare for a loss of value (or availability) of the currency. In such a case, storage of food, water, energy, etc., makes far more sense than gold, because these are all things that come from your existing budget, regardless of surpluses, that you will consume anyway. And just to acknowledge, you said as much:

"To your point on storing food and non-perishables, I can see the end result there. You store food now and upkeep it in the long run in case there is ever a shortage."

People exclaim that they are preparing for an economic collapse, with whatever that entails, (hyper-inflation, food shortages, etc) by buying gold. But currently there is no real system in place to accept gold as a form of exchange in a day to day environment, and more than likely even if the dollar collapses there will be a new paper (or maybe completely digital) currency that takes it place.

Again, see the emphasis added. Buying gold and/or silver at this point (for those who actually have budget surpluses) is not about ease of exchange or rapid liquidity for purchasing day to day needs. It's about storing and preserving value in exchange only. The fact that it might be useful or valuable for direct barter (using that term loosely) is only an added plus.

If there's a dollar collapse, history proves and it is an extremely safe bet, that whatever the "new paper" (or whatever) that takes its place will be of even less value to begin with, as everyone takes a massive haircut. You don't get that new currency out of thin air. It's not dropped from Ben's helicopters. You can only get it by a) your connection to its supply spigots, or b) earning it from those fortunate enough to be close to the supply spigots, or c) trading in your old currency at some horrifically low exchange rate, or d) selling something of real value in exchange. And out of the last two, what do you think is more advantageous: selling something of real value, or selling the old worthless currency that has already lost its value and is about to go defunct?

 

[rhelwig]

Right, but people on here are saying that they are holding gold and silver to use to buy undervalued assets. If there is no food on the shelves, and no store will have a way of taking gold or silver coins then why would anyone take gold and silver as forms of payment for properties when they can't turn around and use it themselves? This is why I feel I haven't gotten a real answer on this subject yet: What is the end game for gold? It is not enough to say "just buy it".

Shire Silver makes gold as usable in small quantities as silver. That's the end game, forgetting about the old-fashioned "coin" and moving to a more modern form of bullion.

We have gold cards with values of $4, $8, $34, and $40, making it easy to carry everyday trade amounts of gold in your wallet.

http://shiresilver.com/product/gold_twentieth_gram_card
http://shiresilver.com/product/gold_one_tenth_gram_card
http://shiresilver.com/product/gold_one_tenth_dinar
http://shiresilver.com/product/gold_half_gram_card

 

[NoOneButPaul]

What I mean by end game is literally the end result of buying and storing gold. Because right now buying and storing huge amounts of gold seems as crazy as buying a car when you live somewhere with no roads. People exclaim that they are preparing for an economic collapse, with whatever that entails, (hyper-inflation, food shortages, etc) by buying gold. But currently there is no real system in place to accept gold as a form of exchange in a day to day environment, and more than likely even if the dollar collapses there will be a new paper (or maybe completely digital) currency that takes it place. So buying gold as a store of value seems unlikely to actually result in a gain for the person doing it.

To your point on storing food and non-perishables, I can see the end result there. You store food now and upkeep it in the long run in case there is ever a shortage.

I dont think we're going to see a full scale collapse... like Schiff said if inflation hits 40% is that still not a hyperinflation of sorts? I guess by calling it hyperinflation we open ourselves up to making it seem like we're talking about a full scale collapse.

I'm not. I don't think it's going to collapse I think it's going to push itself to the BRINK of collapse and that's when the end game of Gold comes in...

I would also point out that the largest central banks of the world are now net buyers of it for the first time in 48 years. It's clearly not a crazy stragedy if the most powerful countries and banks are starting to do it. What I contend is they are buying and hoarding it at their own suppressed price so gold can be revalued as real money after the paper era starts to crumble. The banks are setting themselves up to the be the saviors of the currency while also keeping their entire power structure intact. The fact the central banks can print currency and buy gold with it has to be the greatest conflict of interest in history- the more they print the more value they have. I think they're setting the stage up for a new gold standard but they're all trying to position themselves first before they do it- I also think this is exactly how they'll get us to accept a world wide currency- it will be backed with gold.

George Soros and Henry Paulson as well as numerous other millionaires are running towards gold because they expect the same thing.

Not a collapses, but a total devaluation of everything connected to debt/paper.