Gold Standard (Return) 'Is there Gold in Fort Knox' CBS

What a better way to kill the Fed Reserve, and get back to a non Fiat Currency, take our country back from Foreign Banks.

A few points.

Firstly, I take endless exception to the common usage of "fiat" in this context. Fiat simply means "mandate". All gold and silver money is "fiat" because the fiat is in the Constitution itself. Once again, words matter. Nothing necessarily wrong with fiat money, if it is right money and rightly minted and managed.

Secondly, killing the Fed would certainly imbue many of us with a sense of suspiring pleasure. That, however, is not sufficient to the problem at hand.

We can have "fiat" money - no real problem there, so long as it is properly structured, meaning that it is backed. Being readily convertible would also be good, but if honestly managed (GIGANTIC "IF") non-convertibility is really not a practical problem of momentous proportion. In fact, non-convertibility can actually be a protection under certain circumstances, particularly where other nations hold large reserves of our cash and do not allow for conversion of their own currencies. Picture China, holding $1T in US M1 paper, which is a shitload, physically speaking. They ship it back home and convert all of it in a massive settlement action and whisk it away to Beijing. If, theoretically, they later came to owe us $1T, I would call it "good luck" trying to repatriate that gold in settlement of debt. Never happen in a million years, IMO, because like the rest of the world's governments (mostly, anyhow), they are a bunch of covetous, paranoid children. But I digress...

The key issue in all of this is the definition of the specific value of the gold in terms of how many dollars a unit represents. It is this ratio that must remain constant in order for the money to have any trustworthiness. If Ft. Knox has a ton of gold in it and we map 2000 printed dollar bills to it, each pound of gold then = $1. If we leave the ratio the same, the money is economically trustworthy. The purchasing power stands to change, mind you, depending on conditions but the money itself remains a known quantity. Alter that ratio by whatever means, whether it be mapping more bills to the physical specie or cutting new coin with base metals such as copper, and things begin the classical downward spiral.

This ideal does, however, expose the main criticism of materially-backed currencies, as well as coin monies: what happens when one of those 2000 dollar bills is lost? If your house burns and your cash with it, say $10, there are now ten pounds of gold sitting in a vault with zero real economic value. The theoretic value is still there, of course, because the gold is there. But the notes that give those ten pounds of gold their economic legs, are now gone and the gold sits in a wheelchair, paralyzed. This is a good argument for electronic currencies like bitcoin, were they backed by physical specie. Of course, in a mildly tortured sense they are in that they can be used to purchase and subsequently take physical possession of precious metals, so the effect would appear to be the same on some practical level. But that does not mean all is well in Camelot, for to be so the conditions must be right. What happens when the conditions go south? What happens when commercial gold is not available? Now your bitcoins have no power there, which sucks if it is gold you want. But if such currencies were backed by gold and perhaps other generally recognized stores of value and were demand-convertible, that could represent enormous economic power as real money with an electronic face. For example, I might move to add CP tungsten to the list of backing commodities. Doing so would obviate the avenue of counterfeiting that plates tungsten with gold and passes it off as the latter. If the value of W were pegged equal to the value of Au, counterfeiters would be foiled. If they want to strike W coins, let them. Let such coin become part of the economic flow, so long as they are of proper weight and purity, both which are readily determined.

Pegging all physically heavier metals such as Pt, Rh, etc. to higher values other avenues of fraud in that any such attempts would lead the perpetrators to diminish their net holdings thereby. If I attempt to pass Pt off as Au or W, I'm screwing myself. If I try to pass Au or W off as Pt, the volume to weight measurements will give the fraud instantly away.

Note there is nothing here speaking of absolute value of the materials, but only of the relative values - the ratios of value one to another. I grant that this carries certain potential problems WRT supply/demand pricing, but I am not convinced those would ever likely become real problems of any significance. When weighing the benefits v. the risks, it seems the former far outweigh the latter. I might also add that the ratio of values could have two slots - one as money and one as commercial commodity. That might account for the potential hazards out to six+ sigmas, in which case I would have to call it good.

Think of it - gold-backed bitcoins. You have 1btc - you convert it to physical specie, the "paper" is then "retired" before the community, as it were, and placed into a pool of inert coins. When another unit of gold is deposited, a retired coin is taken from the bitpool and reactivated as valid currency to the depositor, who may then employ it in the customary ways through economic transaction. That could actually be pretty sweet.

Normalized value systems for economic transactions are easy to concoct. Designing one that is practically impervious to the various hazards such systems face... that is a very different issue. But our current states of data technologies appear to offer some potentially viable practical solutions. I would, however, raise the warning that the rise of the first truly practical quantum computer (there are commercial units now available or near to availability, but not sure they yet pose a real threat) may place the encryption technologies upon which e-currencies heavily depend into the dustbin. I have read that even the most brutishly built encryptions will likely be broken by quantum boxes in matters of single-digit machine cycle times. That would suck for privacy. OTOH, "government" would face the same problems from anyone with such a device and sucking on the data pipes to see what funtoys might drop into their eagerly awaiting laps. :) Swords often cut two ways.

Just another plugged-kopek's worth.
 
That's my point in the OP, lets find out secure it (lol) kick the Global Bankers out of our hair.

The attempt at which would suddenly find America in a state of open civil war. It will have come seemingly our of nowhere - nobody saw it on the horizon... vast boiling anger finally released into the streets. What caused it? Nobody was sure, but the rioting started in one city and rapidly spread to all the major populations centers. The chaos, death, and destruction were appalling to the world. Thereby did the UN call upon China and Russia to invade American soil in order to stabilize the region and remain until such time as order would be restored. Here, "order" means the reinstatement of the international bankers, first and foremost.

Do not for the briefest moment think that the people to whom you refer would take such an action sitting down.
 
The global bankers are us.

And if you truly believe that, please step into my office... I have a truly wonderful bridge for sale. A classic, in fact.

Go ahead to "Theire" offices and proclaim your brotherhood to them. You'll be lucky if your double-tapped body doesn't show up in Lake Geneva, mysteriously.
 
And if you truly believe that, please step into my office... I have a truly wonderful bridge for sale. A classic, in fact.

Go ahead to "Theire" offices and proclaim your brotherhood to them. You'll be lucky if your double-tapped body doesn't show up in Lake Geneva, mysteriously.

Nonsense.

He's just telling you who signs his paychecks. That's all.
 
We need a change, Quantitative Easing is a joke , you don't have to play shell games when you have tangible assets.

, ,

Silly boy, that is the entire point of the current system - to evade and avoid the discipline that righteous monies impose upon everyone. With proper money, you CAN'T play shell games, which is why the bankers changed the rules. Now... well shit, sky's the limit... kinda like when you're good and crazy. Reminds me of one of the many spectacularly good quotes from "The Tick":


Isn't sanity really just a one trick pony, anyway? I mean, all you get is one trick, rational thinking! But when you're good and crazy ... ooh hoo hoo hoo ... the sky's the limit!

 
I think what bugs me is this:

1. the Fed is privately owned
2. we don't know who the owners are
3. possession is 9/10ths of the law

Bingo. You get a cigar. A good Havana, in fact. Nummy...
 
Sort of. http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/does-the-federal-reserve-own-or-hold-gold.htm



You are right that the gold certificates are listed on their balance sheet but the value of those was fixed in 1973 at $11 billion and they cannot sell or redeem the gold certificates so they are really worthless. It is bookkeeping only. The amount of gold the US owns has changed over time since 1934 so it would be untrue to say that the Treasury cannot sell the gold. The Fed can't since they don't own any of it.

Link to IMF report saying Fed owns US gold?

Um... are you saying there is no gold in Fed vaults? If so, then you need to talk to my friend's son, who is a vault guard at the NY Fed. Says there's a fuckton of gold down there. Could he be mistaken? He's a Marine and turned out to be a pretty good egg.
 
Um... are you saying there is no gold in Fed vaults? If so, then you need to talk to my friend's son, who is a vault guard at the NY Fed. Says there's a fuckton of gold down there. Could he be mistaken? He's a Marine and turned out to be a pretty good egg.

Whereas I know a vet who was assigned to Ft. Knox not so long ago. He's a family man and a Christian, and one of the most honest men I've ever met. He said that vault mostly has one hell of an unbelievable echo in it.
 
You are right that the gold certificates are listed on their balance sheet but the value of those was fixed in 1973 at $11 billion and they cannot sell or redeem the gold certificates so they are really worthless. It is bookkeeping only. The amount of gold the US owns has changed over time since 1934 so it would be untrue to say that the Treasury cannot sell the gold. The Fed can't since they don't own any of it.

Link to IMF report saying Fed owns US gold?

Here's a link:

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2009/wp09120.pdf

Here's a graphic from the IMF Working Paper in the link:




Just as Section 16 of the FR Act was completely eliminated by enactment of 2 laws in 1965 and 1968, respectively, any other words you evoke regarding US gold reserves are just that... words that can be modified, changed, eliminated at will by the FED through it's sack lappers in Congress.

The FED holds our gold and that of some 120 other countries in it's vaults as part of it's world reserve currency hegemony. With the gold as collateral and the military as the enforcement arm, the unaudited FED truly cares not who makes the laws or what they purport to dictate.

The original Federal Reserve Act was re-written to appease opposition but was subsequently amended some 100 times through enactment of new laws. Never once has a single one of those laws been defeated or repealed.

Fort Knox is empty. If you have proof otherwise, please post the data with links.

The FED holds ALL of the gold. They use it to bully the rest of the world into their global schemes, they use it to manipulate the price of gold, they pick who wins and who loses... because YOU and the rest of the apologists let them.

If you insist they are a benevolent not-for-profit entity whose sole purpose is to benefit your fellow Americans and think they don't own the gold because of some bullshit paragraph on some piece of unaudited paper, that's peachy keen for you. But please, spare us who have more sense.
 
Here's a link:

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2009/wp09120.pdf

Here's a graphic from the IMF Working Paper in the link:




Just as Section 16 of the FR Act was completely eliminated by enactment of 2 laws in 1965 and 1968, respectively, any other words you evoke regarding US gold reserves are just that... words that can be modified, changed, eliminated at will by the FED through it's sack lappers in Congress.

The FED holds our gold and that of some 120 other countries in it's vaults as part of it's world reserve currency hegemony. With the gold as collateral and the military as the enforcement arm, the unaudited FED truly cares not who makes the laws or what they purport to dictate.

The original Federal Reserve Act was re-written to appease opposition but was subsequently amended some 100 times through enactment of new laws. Never once has a single one of those laws been defeated or repealed.

Fort Knox is empty. If you have proof otherwise, please post the data with links.

The FED holds ALL of the gold. They use it to bully the rest of the world into their global schemes, they use it to manipulate the price of gold, they pick who wins and who loses... because YOU and the rest of the apologists let them.

If you insist they are a benevolent not-for-profit entity whose sole purpose is to benefit your fellow Americans and think they don't own the gold because of some bullshit paragraph on some piece of unaudited paper, that's peachy keen for you. But please, spare us who have more sense.

Ah-thanks for the link. It shows the $11 billion of gold certificates I mentioned earlier which they cannot redeem or sell. That is what is listed.

Fort Knox is empty. If you have proof otherwise, please post the data with links.

If you have proof it is empty, please share links.
 
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Um... are you saying there is no gold in Fed vaults? If so, then you need to talk to my friend's son, who is a vault guard at the NY Fed. Says there's a fuckton of gold down there. Could he be mistaken? He's a Marine and turned out to be a pretty good egg.

No- don't say the Fed stores no gold- they do- and not just for the US Treasury but some other countries as well. What I said is that they don't own any of the gold they store. The New York Fed vaults were recently audited as requested by Ron Paul.
 
...whether we are forced to use frn's, gold, etc. ad nauseam, as the de jure 'unit of account'/legal tender will not matter a stinking bit..we will be ruled by the same gd banksters who control the issuance/creation and volume of 'the money'..

...and upon (LOL!) 'return' :rolleyes: to some stinking mythical 'gold standard' they will have--long beforehand--turned their illion$ of FRN'S into gold, mines, etc..

..get real..
 
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Um... are you saying there is no gold in Fed vaults? If so, then you need to talk to my friend's son, who is a vault guard at the NY Fed. Says there's a fuckton of gold down there. Could he be mistaken? He's a Marine and turned out to be a pretty good egg.

Tungsten is money.
 
Whereas I know a vet who was assigned to Ft. Knox not so long ago. He's a family man and a Christian, and one of the most honest men I've ever met. He said that vault mostly has one hell of an unbelievable echo in it.

I could believe that, but Knox is not the Fed. I was speaking of the NYC Fed in particular.
 
The attempt at which would suddenly find America in a state of open civil war. It will have come seemingly our of nowhere - nobody saw it on the horizon... vast boiling anger finally released into the streets. What caused it? Nobody was sure, but the rioting started in one city and rapidly spread to all the major populations centers. The chaos, death, and destruction were appalling to the world. Thereby did the UN call upon China and Russia to invade American soil in order to stabilize the region and remain until such time as order would be restored. Here, "order" means the reinstatement of the international bankers, first and foremost.

Do not for the briefest moment think that the people to whom you refer would take such an action sitting down.

France surrendered to the Germans in two weeks , I'll bet you can beat that record.

:shruggs:
 
Bump before the same old suspects pop back up and start posting brand new threads on the same old, tired subjects.
 
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