Gold-Backed Debit Card

[helmuth_hubener]

Now that you've bumped this, could you reply plz to the question I posed immediately before your bump?
Thnx.

Oh, sorry, I missed it, HB! Thanks for re-asking; sorry to make you have to.

Your question is whether I agree that "if even just 90% is gold, the purchasing power and stability long term would make up for it". It depends what you mean by that. I do agree that whatever a 100% gold account would be doing, a 90% gold account is going to be doing something very similar, long-term. So yes, the purchasing power and stability of 90% gold 10% cash is going to be very close to the purchasing power and stability of 100% gold.

I do think that you need to be aware, however, that gold is not necessarily going to be more stable in terms of purchasing power than other assets, at least in the short and medium term. If you look at a chart of gold over the past year or even over ten, you will see that it's been quite volatile in terms of the dollar. Now, you could say that really it's the dollar that's been volatile in terms of gold, and that would be a fair point. Nevertheless, it means that your purchasing power to buy products with US dollar-denominated prices has fluctuated a great deal.

Over the last twenty years, and even over the last ten years, that fluctuation has very much been in gold's favor. The ounce of gold that could buy you about $350 dollar's-worth of goods in 1995 could buy you more like $450 in 2005 and more like $1,100 today. But shorter-term can be different. This past 12 months, for example, gold has fallen by about 10% against the dollar.

I just want you to be aware of the risks and realities. If you had a gold-denominated account linked to a debit card that you were using for all your financial needs as your main every-day payment card, you would have to be aware that you may deposit a paycheck worth $578.00 one day, and a week later -- without spending anything -- your account balance may be just $500. Or it could be $650. That would be an especially volatile week, but not unheard of in the gold market. You would, of course, still have the .5 ounces or so just exactly the same as when you deposited it. So in terms of gold, it would remain unchanged. With the 90% gold card I'm floating the idea of, the gain/loss would be dampened slightly: about $507/$643 instead of $500/$650.

Because of this volatility, you would need to have some amount of cushion, some amount of savings that is, so that the day-to-day volatility doesn't mess up your finances and make it difficult to pay your bills. You can't be living totally paycheck-to-paycheck. You have to have some savings, I'd say at minimum a month's worth (two would be better), and be regularly saving, say 10% of your income. That would mean your expenses are 10% less than your income. That would put you on sound enough financial footing to get such a card, otherwise I would not be comfortable recommending it.

What do you think? Still interested?

 

[helmuth_hubener]

stinking monetary order

Don't you mean $tinking monetary order? Come on, Panqui, get it right! You lack of $ is troubling.

Anyway, if I am so ignorant of history -- and I will readily admit that I am! -- how about you teach me, and all the rest of us, what historical facts and episodes, specifically, you want us to become aware of? That's the thing about history: there's so much of it! It would be impossible for anyone to know anything but a very, very tiny percentage of it. But I am always happy to know more.

So, let us know!

 

[helmuth_hubener]

News flash:

BitGold just let me know that as of this morning, they are now allowing US citizens to open accounts.

Don't get too excited: despite the website, they do not actually have a payment card yet. So, it's just storage.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

how about you teach me, and all the rest of us, what historical facts and episodes, specifically, you want us to become aware of?



...probably not 'all' the rest of 'us'...i'm pretty sure there are some monetary realists lurking here....you'd ALWAYS do well to speak for yourself only..btw, as one wag put it, 'in the end, we are all our own teachers'..it seems the best i can do is make you aware that you are unaware...(and i sense you are among the vast throng of unaware...btw, the worst are the academic economists..yuck!!..)...

...unaware of/oblivious to the basic realities of our stinking monetary order...blaming the real victims of this stinking monetary order, rather than working towards exposing/revealing/describing this hideou$ fraud to others...

..btw, i sense you are a decent sort---albeit maybe a little bit of whiner when you negged me and commented 'you make no sense' ...but i sense you are among the vast herd who doesn't understand they are servants to banksters...(you don't understand 'deposit creation')..etc..you appear to blame government but it's the bankster/'money power'--not 'the government' to whom you/we are $lave..as the borrower is $ervant to the lender...

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Monetary Realism

If by that you mean you adhere to Real Business Cycle Theory, then we can discuss that. I think the idea is completely and soundly disproven (at least in its rigid, absolute form).

If by that you mean the mishmash of ideas adhered to by one Cullen Roche, then... is there even anything to talk about? Are there any clear statements made by this "monetary realism" of Cullen's that could be agreed with, or disagreed with? I doubt it. But if this is what you mean and you do want to attempt to talk about it: by all means, have at. I will try to play along.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I've cracked it. Those actually interested in beta testing a gold-backed debit card may send me a private message. Declare your independence from the corrupt, statist, crony, fractional reserve banking system.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

helmuth queries: Are there any clear statements made by this "monetary realism" of Cullen's that could be agreed with, or disagreed with? I doubt it. But if this is what you mean and you do want to attempt to talk about it: by all means, have at. I will try to play along.




...from what little i read of 'cullen,' he appears as yet another in a long long line of 'republicrat economic theorists'...yet another with his cake-hole frequently working as to the illion 'dollar' economy absent an honest, REAL understanding of the origin, nature, etc. of even one stinking 'dollar'...

REALISM: 'the quality or fact of representing a person, thing, or situation accurately or in a way that is true to life.'

...so, for one of many examples, helmuth, i would expect a true 'monetary realist' to understand that most of 'our money' is created by commercial banks in the process of their fraudulent 'deposit creation' privilege/scheme...and not 'printed by the government'....as your typical republicrat-voting gd fool 'believes'..including, apparently, most/all of the teabag 'liberty' republicrat cheerleaders too!!



helmuth beckons: 'Declare your independence from the corrupt, statist, crony, fractional reserve banking system.'

...a 'monetary realist' understands that without major legislative change--(not even being whispered about by the stinking republicrats, btw) anyone not an 'indian on untaxed land' who doesn't use federal reserve notes/tokens--or someone using them in their behalf-is very quickly dead/in jail/both here in 'murka...get realism, helmuth!

as one wag put it, helmuth: "Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take away from them the power to create money and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money."

 

[helmuth_hubener]

REALISM: 'the quality or fact of representing a person, thing, or situation accurately or in a way that is true to life.'

...so, for one of many examples, helmuth, i would expect a true 'monetary realist' to understand that most of 'our money' is created by commercial banks in the process of their fraudulent 'deposit creation' privilege/scheme...

Well, check!, count me in I guess, by that criterion.

helmuth beckons: 'Declare your independence from the corrupt, statist, crony, fractional reserve banking system.'[/I]

...a 'monetary realist' understands that without major legislative change--(not even being whispered about by the stinking republicrats, btw) anyone not an 'indian on untaxed land' who doesn't use federal reserve notes/tokens--or someone using them in their behalf-is very quickly dead/in jail/both here in 'murka...get realism, helmuth!

Watch and wonder.

Come on, is RPF really this dead? Virtually no interest in this whatsoever? Come on, guys: gold bullion debit card. Insanely low fees. Protect yourself from inflation. How are you guys not crawling over each other to be on the waiting list?

 

[H. E. Panqui]

....helmuth, remember that the true 'owners' of that land upon which you lay your head down at night, the land your food is grown upon, etc..is yours to use only if you cough up some federal reserve notes...you hand them gold and they'll tell you to sell it for some federal reserve notes you can then use to pay the land rental fee ('property tax')...

...another example of realism, helmuth...

 

[helmuth_hubener]

....helmuth, remember that the true 'owners' of that land upon which you lay your head down at night, the land your food is grown upon, etc..is yours to use only if you cough up some federal reserve notes...you hand them gold and they'll tell you to sell it for some federal reserve notes you can then use to pay the land rental fee ('property tax')...

...another example of realism, helmuth...

JIT - Just-in-Time:
An inventory strategy companies employ to increase efficiency and decrease waste by receiving goods only as they are needed

 

[H. E. Panqui]

helmuth asserts his monetary realism: Well, check!, count me in I guess, by that criterion.




....good for you, helmuth!!...true monetary realists are rare indeed...(for example, to my knowledge, there are no current federal politicians who are monetary realists...)

...i did make note of a small sample of your monetary realism here at post #160, etc:...please paste a link to your best writing/thinking on the $ubject...i assure you i will read it thoroughly and comment honestly...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-US-national-quot-debt-quot-an-illusion/page6

...are you doing anything to make your vision of a 'gold-backed money' workable?...have you lobbied your representative(s) to submit bills making gold/silver 'legal tender,' (acceptable for the payment of taxes) etc.?...

 

[presence]

I've cracked it. Those actually interested in beta testing a gold-backed debit card may send me a private message.

interested, send me more info

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Please paste a link to your best writing/thinking on the subject. I assure you i will read it thoroughly and comment honestly.

I will just link you to my posting of Harry Browne's explanation. It is very clear, and very good, I think.

The Best Explanation of Fractional Reserve Banking Ever

 

[H. E. Panqui]

....nice post, helmuth!..some great $tuff...

...btw, others (?here too?) don't believe me when i tell them, 'bankers get bonds for nothing...you/i have to 'work' to acquire the money to buy bonds, but the banksters get them for absolutely nothing'...(which amounts to a bankster tax upon all)..what say you, helmuth?...

...my problem with browne--and i really liked him--was that he really never blew the whistle on 'bankster privilege' enough...he badmouthed 'government' more than he badmouthed 'the banksters'...'the government' are merely puppets of 'the banksters'...

...as one wag put it, 'the fact that these stinking republicrats NEVER talk about 'the money' tells anyone not a gd republicrat fool all they need to know....'

 

[Son_of_Liberty90]

still waiting

 

[osan]

Would any of you be interested in using a gold-backed debit card?

That is, you'd have an account of gold. You would own the gold, not dollars. Upon swiping the card to pay for your meal or shopping or whatever (or having it auto-debited to pay for rent or electricity) dollars would be transferred to the merchant, as normal. It would seem just like a normal transaction to them. The card would be accepted everywhere Visa is accepted.

The gold-to-dollar conversion would be automatic behind the scenes, taken care of by the card so you don't have to do anything.

Would you use such a thing? Would you prefer to keep your money in gold rather than a bank account denominated in dollars?

I'd love to hear any thoughts and opinions. I'd use it but only if it had such-and-such? Needs this feature or that? Stupid idea? I want to know!

Questions.

1. Whence the gold? Do you physically bring it to a bank? Is there a service that would take care of this for you... for a fee?
2. How are accounts reconciled? After spending 1/2 of your reserve, where does the "used" gold go?
3. What happens when someone buys something from YOU, using dollars? Is that converted to gold? What if no gold is available?
4. If the bank is robbed of the physical gold, where would you stand as the ultimate robbee? Would FDIC or similar protection be available?
5. Would your gold be safe from government action such as that taken by Roosevelt in confiscation?

There are probably more issues, but this is a good start, methinks.

I like the idea, but there appear to be kinks. The notion of armored cars moving huge stores of heavy metal back and forth does present problems, IMO. In a simpler world, 2# of gold in a man's pockets would perhaps be little trouble to him, save for the usual threats posed by thieves and other miscreants. In this world of paranoia, endless theft by legitimization, and other stupidities unimaginable just 200 years ago, I am not entirely convinced that gold remains a sound sink of value. The simple fact that our technologies are so capable, yet in the hands of brigands we call "government", I feel little to no security regarding gold. Imagine I go through security at an airport and ten pounds of gold are discovered in my possession. You bloody well know it will likely be confiscated under civil forfeiture on the pretext that I must be a drug dealer. Then I would have to go to prison for murder in defense of my property and it's all downhill from there.

Anyhow, those are some of the concerns I have with the idea.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Gradually rolling it out in a bigger way:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?509813-The-Return-of-Sound-Money

I'm giving RPFers early adopting priority in line by posting it here. Let me know if you'd like to get a card and help test it.

 

[opal]

I'm going to have to pass.. I trust no one with my physical gold but me

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Great questions, osan!

[*]Whence the gold? Do you physically bring it to a bank? Is there a service that would take care of this for you... for a fee?

Switzerland. We, Midas, own it, through an intermediary. When you fund your account, we purchase the gold on your behalf. You fund the account in the normal way, with dollars. The dollars are then converted to gold. See?

[*]How are accounts reconciled? After spending 1/2 of your reserve, where does the "used" gold go?

Whenever you spend gold, it is converted into dollars. The gold is then sold back to the intermediary.

[*]What happens when someone buys something from YOU, using dollars? Is that converted to gold? What if no gold is available?

We do not offer a merchant account (at least not yet). This is just like a normal bank account. Just as in your previous normal experience, if someone pays you, they will be giving you a check or actual paper dollars. You can then deposit this into your account. If you are using Midas, then yes: upon deposit the funds are used to buy gold and immediately converted from dollars to ounces.

[*]If the bank is robbed of the physical gold, where would you stand as the ultimate robbee? Would FDIC or similar protection be available?

The gold is in a vault in Switzerland. This is exceedingly unlikely.

[*]Would your gold be safe from government action such as that taken by Roosevelt in confiscation?

From that particular government action? Yes. The gold is in a vault in Switzerland. Not in the jurisdiction of Roosevelt and his successors. However, no tangible asset can ever be completely safe from government action.

I am not entirely convinced that gold remains a sound sink of value.

If Midas takes off and becomes popular, the framework I have built can be used for other backing assets as well. We could make a bitcoin-backed debit card, a silver-backed debit card, an anything-you-want-backed debit card. The sky's the limit.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I'm going to have to pass.. I trust no one with my physical gold but me

Fair enough! Thanks for the feedback, though!