Gold-Backed Debit Card

[helmuth_hubener]

One time when I was a little kid my uncle asked me what kind of ice cream I wanted; strawberry? chocolate? vanilla? mint chip? I was excited. Then he told me he was messing with me and didn't have any icecream.

LOL, this answer is sufficient. Assuming you like ice cream. There's going to be a catch, maybe more than one catch, but what I'm thinking of is doable. I'm just gauging interest. Doesn't seem like a lot.

Then again, RPF may be kind of dead.

Is there a bitcoin venue that would be more informative to gauge the actual interest level that you'd recommend? Do you think that a very large number of bitcoin people are interested in gold, or more of a fringe, rare thing?

 

[presence]

You might want to talk to the people from amagi metals about where they market, etc.

 

[osan]

When people figure out a way to incorporate bitcoin's foundations into gold and silver the world is never going to be the same.

In principle, this is not a difficult thing. If gold and silver become the global standard for money and is honestly and transparently administered (good luck on that last bit), then whatever the official global monetary pool of gold and silver might at a given time would represent the total number of bitcoins floating about. The ratio gives you the value of gold in terms of bitcoins and bitcoins in terms of gold.

One question in my mind is whether the "official" global monetary gold stock should be held constant the way the number of bitcoins is supposed to.

 

[osan]

One time when I was a little kid my uncle asked me what kind of ice cream I wanted; strawberry? chocolate? vanilla? mint chip? I was excited. Then he told me he was fucking with me and didn't have any icecream.

And you've hated him ever since?

 

[presence]

And you've hated him ever since?

No we're good now... he comes to my house from time to time... Whenever he shows up, I offer Jack, Crown, Patron, Grey Goose... whatever he wants.

 

[muh_roads]

Too bad Bitcoin has no tangible value.

Ever since I heard David Morgan talk about this idea (Apparently this debit card system is how people use Gold and Silver as money in Utah where it's recognized as legal tender) I knew it was the wave of the future to bringing down the dollar system.

GoldMoney also recently went full on into BitGold which is apparently trying to combine the ease of using bitcoins while actually having a valuable backing to it.

Getting gold and silver electronic, and NOT ALLOWING ANYONE to fractionally reserve the physical, is the best chance we have at exiting the system.

You can completely destroy a government if you figure out a real way to transact outside of it.

You are talking about the Byzantine Generals' problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Generals'_Problem

This has already been solved with bitcoin. Math is the backing and it shouldn't be downplayed. Not just the limited supply but more importantly it's the revolutionary breakthrough of solving the double-spend problem.

Adding gold to bitcoin introduces counterparty risk. Counterparty risk is a very important concept that shouldn't be ignored. It's no different than keeping bitcoins on an exchange. You have to trust someone else.

BTW bitgold doesn't use bitcoin as its payment rail. You can buy into bitgold with btc but they are not the same. It is a very centralized system that isn't available to many countries, including the US.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

btw, WRT OP, I'd use a 100% gold card.

HB, would you use a 90% one?

That is one of the "catches" I was mentioning to presence. It turns out having a card denominated and backed 90% in gold is a ton easier than having one backed 100% by gold. Would this be a deal-breaker for you? Or would you still consider it worthwhile to have your main financial account be (e.g.) $9,000 in gold and $1,000 in US dollars?

How about the rest of you?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

HB, would you use a 90% one?

That is one of the "catches" I was mentioning to presence. It turns out having a card denominated and backed 90% in gold is a ton easier than having one backed 100% by gold. Would this be a deal-breaker for you? Or would you still consider it worthwhile to have your main financial account be (e.g.) $9,000 in gold and $1,000 in US dollars?

How about the rest of you?

Actually, I don't see that as a problem. As it is, I don't have access to 100% of my checking or savings FRNs at any given time (Checking is ~96%, IDR savings ATM).
I reckon if even just 90% is gold, the purchasing power and stability long term would make up for it. Agreed?

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Bump.

 

[Krugminator2]

I'll take the unpopular view and say I would not. For one thing, the dollar has been very stable especially since the early 80's. Secondly, when people talk about the dollar losing 96% of its value since the creation of the Fed that doesn't mean someone who held dollars would lose 96% of their purchasing power by holding cash. For the majority of that time you could hold dollars in an interest bearing or treasuries that would roughly keep pace with inflation.

And why link the account the gold? Why not to equities? Equities went up, I think a million percent in the 1900's. The best book making the case is Triumph of the Optimists. It looks at the stock performance of every global index since their inception. Equities do very well in countries with inflation deflation credit defaults, etc. I also agree with this article that rips into Justin Amash which makes points that are somewhat related to why you might bring up the idea of a gold checking account. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntam...rianism-will-greatly-disappoint-libertarians/

 

[thechitowncubs]

Vaultoro

 

[NoOneButPaul]

WOW! Thanks for this news! I had not heard at all! GoldMoney was purchased by BitGold. There are no remaining DGC (digital gold currency) news outlets really remaining, at least not active, so not too surprising I hadn't heard. Didn't even know a deal was being considered. Anyway, that is very interesting.

NoOneButPaul, would you want a gold-backed debit card? Would you use it as your main account, or just for novelty? Or not interested at all?

I would be very interested in helping this move forward. It would not be my main account at first until enough people accepted it (or just the right places like bitcoin) but I really do think it's the waive of the future.

And all you bitcoiners can say i'm wrong but the future will prove me right. It's the foundations of bitcoin (namely open source) that make it valuable. The coin itself is a pump and dump scheme that's destined to implode. I own 10 of them that i've had for many years but to me they're just something I need to sell when they get pumped again. 500 people own over half the coins (and they're the loudest cheerleaders feeding you all this BS and I should know the BS when I see it because I just spent the last 4 years watching PM shills do the same thing).

Gold introduces some counterparty risk but there's a ton of counterparty risk with bitcoin already (Silk road, hello? Mt. Gox, hello?) as I said before so long as the gold and/or silver were not fractionally reserved this would work just fine.

In fact with Texas just opening the first state wide bullion depository, that is EXEMPT from federal confiscation attempts, you could likely use them as your base of operations in the beginning.

 

[NoOneButPaul]

https://www.perpetualassets.com/silver-debit-card/

Well someone was listening... apparently this is becoming a reality. Still without truly understanding the vaulting service (and knowing it's not fractionally reserved) it's hard to trust it fully.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

Presence, what if there were a card like that with no ordering fee, monthly fee, no transaction fee, and free global ATM withdrawals?




...sounds like we've found the holy grail of free lunche$!.....(btw, can i make my free global withdrawal in the gold...or the frn's/tokens..

...monetary reality...until/unless the rule$ are changed you will be controlled by the frn banksters...gold bugs and bitcoiners be damned...

...and if 'they' are forced to 'change,' i submit 'they' will have already acquired all the gold/mines, etc. ad nauseam, 'they' will ever need.....

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Presence, what if there were a card like that with no ordering fee, monthly fee, no transaction fee, and free global ATM withdrawals?

It sounds like we've found the holy grail of free lunches

Nope, no free lunch; the lunch is paid for by many people, mostly by merchants who accept the card, ultimately.

Can I make my free global withdrawal in the gold...or the frn's/tokens..

Sorry, it's the frowny-face: FRNs. Or Euros, or Rupees, or whatever, if you're abroad. If you can find an ATM that dispenses gold, you could even do that. You may be able to find some in Germany, also a couple in Singapore, and one in Florida.

...monetary reality...until/unless the rule$ are changed you will be controlled by the frn banksters

At some point in a man's life, he needs to take control of his own life, accept responsibility for his own life, start making bold choices for his own life, and stop whining incessantly about the choices and beliefs of others.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

At some point in a man's life, he needs to take control of his own life, accept responsibility for his own life, start making bold choices for his own life, and stop whining incessantly about the choices and beliefs of others.



...?said the armed white ma$ter to the unarmed chained slave?..

a little hint helmuth, political bulletin boards and politics in general are rife with 'whining' (i refer to my assessment of your ideas as 'enlightened criticism')...you whine with the worst and best of us, helmuth..

...do yourself a favor and acquaint yourself with 'monetary realism'...it will change your whole outlook on thing$...

 

[helmuth_hubener]

...said the armed white master to the unarmed chained slave

If you see me as a master and yourself as a helpless slave, that says more about your own psychological state than anything about reality. And what it says to me is: hapless; pathetic; contemptible; dead-end.

I am a master, and strive to be one ever more-so, but not of slaves.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

And if I had a slave, I would probably not choose you.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

...good grief, helmuth!...anyone knowledgeable about 'our' stinking monetary order understands they are a $lave...your apparent lack of knowledge is troubling...as you seem intent on commenting on/proposing future 'improvement$' ...whilst unaware of the pre$ent and pa$t!..

“While boasting of our noble deeds we're careful to conceal
the ugly fact that by an iniquitous money system we have
nationalized a system of oppression which, though more refined,
is not less cruel than the old system of chattel slavery.”
― Horace Greeley

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Bump.

Now that you've bumped this, could you reply plz to the question I posed immediately before your bump?

Actually, I don't see that as a problem. As it is, I don't have access to 100% of my checking or savings FRNs at any given time (Checking is ~96%, IDR savings ATM).
I reckon if even just 90% is gold, the purchasing power and stability long term would make up for it. Agreed?

Thnx.