Gold and silver down?

P3ter_Griffin said:
They will continue buying bonds to keep rates near zero but the $85Bln/month will dry up.

I do think they will end it before this year is up. US banks are sitting pretty with their reserves and they've been able to unload their non-performing MBS on the fed already. Other than pushing markets higher there isn't much left to accomplish with QE.
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Im not following your logic here. The deficit will still be there and unless there's a huge spike in interest in fresh Treasury issues (like serious euro crisis that sends everyone fleeing into dollars), the primary dealers will keep taking down 50% of the new issues. The dealers have been selling those new issues to the Fed to monetize the deficit (that $85billion). If the Fed stops buying from the PDs then the PDs are stuck with the issues since few are buying otherwise. This would mean that the PDs would be monetizing the deficit and I can't imagine they'll do that for long for little to no return. Maybe Im confused but I don't follow your logic.
 
enoch150 said:
Oil is also down 3% today. I don't believe that is a coincidence and any theory you have about why gold is down had better also be able to account for the drop in oil.
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Natural gas is through the roof, everything else, down.
 
devil21 said:
Im not following your logic here. The deficit will still be there and unless there's a huge spike in interest in fresh Treasury issues (like serious euro crisis that sends everyone fleeing into dollars), the primary dealers will keep taking down 50% of the new issues. The dealers have been selling those new issues to the Fed to monetize the deficit (that $85billion). If the Fed stops buying from the PDs then the PDs are stuck with the issues since few are buying otherwise. This would mean that the PDs would be monetizing the deficit and I can't imagine they'll do that for long for little to no return. Maybe Im confused but I don't follow your logic.
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It is my understanding that the Fed, in setting a .25% interest rate target, will buy the bonds necessary to do so. And then QE is $85Bln a month on top of that for purchasing bonds and MBS from banks.

On a CCTV program today I heard QE described as what central banks do when manipulating bond rates to zero doesn't work.
 
This is by @JohnKicklighter the chief currency strategist at dailyfx. He's the only trader I follow, he gives good insight into what kind of monetary effects different events cause and brings economics into a math dominated market. Worth a chance on your twitter feed IMO.

About gold today (and other stuff):

 
enoch150 said:
Oil is also down 3% today. I don't believe that is a coincidence and any theory you have about why gold is down had better also be able to account for the drop in oil.
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I cannot make any sense of it all. Dow , flat , S & P down .28 %, Nasdaq down .16 % ,Corn up 1.22% , Nat Gas up 2.92 %, Copper down 2.3 %, Oil down 3 %, Brent Crude down 1.11 % , and currently Silver $25.85 ( never thought it would be seen under $26 ), Gold $1477 , Palladium , $705 ,Platinum $1484.
 
On the Mercantile , Soybean oil , Feeder cattle down , everything else , up . Corn , Soybeans , Soybean meal , Wheat ,Live Cattle,Lean Hogs,Class 3 Milk , all up.
 
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Former US Treasury Official – Fed Orchestrated Smash In Gold

Today a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury told King World News that the smash in gold and silver today was entirely orchestrated by the Federal Reserve. Former Assistant of the US Treasury, Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, also warned KWN that stocks of available physical gold are “rapidly declining.” Below is what Dr. Roberts had to say in this extraordinary and exclusive interview.

Eric King: “Dr. Roberts, we have this smash on gold and silver today. Gold down $75 at one point and silver was down $1.75, your thoughts here?”

Dr. Roberts: “This is an orchestration (the smash in gold). It’s been going on now from the beginning of April. Brokerage houses told their individual clients the word was out that hedge funds and institutional investors were going to be dumping gold and that they should get out in advance.

Then, a couple of days ago, Goldman Sachs announced there would be further departures from gold. So what they are trying to do is scare the individual investor out of bullion. Clearly there is something desperate going on….
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http://www.jsmineset.com/2013/04/12/former-us-treasury-official-fed-orchestrated-smash-in-gold/
 
P3ter_Griffin said:
It is my understanding that the Fed, in setting a .25% interest rate target, will buy the bonds necessary to do so. And then QE is $85Bln a month on top of that for purchasing bonds and MBS from banks.

On a CCTV program today I heard QE described as what central banks do when manipulating bond rates to zero doesn't work.
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I follow you better now. That $85B is still what's financing the deficit though. If that dries up, who finances the deficit? Seems it would fall on the primary dealers if things stay the same since they're still forced to take down whatever doesn't otherwise sell. To avoid that there would need to be a big spike in interest in Treasury issues to scare more buyers into our debt paper and out of other currencies/assets. Can they keep beating down metals further to spook overseas PM investment back into our debt? I doubt it since it appears those that would buy our debt (Chinese, for example) are busy stacking REAL metals.
 
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The Fed doesn't own any gold to sell and lower the market price so it would be kinda difficult for them to force a "collapse" in the price of gold. Gold has been heading down since its peak in September so sure brokers are probably advising clients against buying it.

Goldman Sachs: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/goldman-sachs-says-time-short-132705633.html
"Despite resurgence in euro area risk aversion and disappointing U.S. economic data , gold prices are unchanged over the past month, highlighting how conviction in holding gold is quickly waning," said Goldman Sachs analysts Damien Courvalin and Jeffrey Currie in the note.

The analysts cut their gold forecast to $1,450 per ounce for 2013 and $1,270 for 2014, the second cut in their price target this year.

"With our economists expecting few ramifications from Cyprus and that the recent U.S. slowdown will not derail the faster recovery they forecast in the second half of 2013, we believe a sharp rebound in gold prices is unlikely. Given gold's recent lackluster price action and our economists' expectation for higher U.S. real rates, we are lowering our U.S. dollar-denominated gold price forecast once again."
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Zippyjuan said:
The Fed doesn't own any gold to sell and lower the market price so it would be kinda difficult for them to force a "collapse" in the price of gold. Gold has been heading down since its peak in September so sure brokers are probably advising clients against buying it.

Goldman Sachs: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/goldman-sachs-says-time-short-132705633.html
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Not sure anybody said the Fed was actually selling gold, physical or paper. The Fed does pass down "instructions" to member banks though. I think that's what is being alleged here. Goldman and the Fed not interlinked? LOL come on Zippy. Even you know better than that.

If the Fed has no problem leaking important data to banks ahead of the public, I don't see how anyone could claim the Fed isn't acting in concert with the banks, particularly when it comes to beating down prices on the dollar's biggest direct competitor, gold.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/10/federal-reserve-minutes-leaked_n_3055989.html
 
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Gold is up- it is the market. Gold is down- there must be some manipulation behind it. And all manipulation starts at the Fed. I seee.
 
PaulConventionWV said:
So even gold and silver aren't immune to manipulation. To those of you who thought it was sooo much safer than bitcoin, watch out. I will keep my silver in the meantime. They can't scare me.
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Were you not aware that gold and silver have been manipulated for a long time. However, this latest stuff seems like a huge jump in manipulation.

Have you never read GATA?
 
Zippyjuan said:
Gold is up- it is the market. Gold is down- there must be some manipulation behind it. And all manipulation starts at the Fed. I seee.
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It's not that, Zippy. Gold is acting directly opposite of what it should be doing when you look at the increase in monetary supply, the runaway debt, etc.
 
In this article, Paul Craig Roberts explains yesterday's $73 drop in the price of gold.

Roberts also has an interview on Youtube, from April 9, 2013, discussing the "assault on gold."

 
Zippyjuan said:
Gold is up- it is the market. Gold is down- there must be some manipulation behind it. And all manipulation starts at the Fed. I seee.
Click to expand...

What do you see? Those who have the most money have the most influence over the price of commodities and stocks, that is just a fact.
 
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